CD Mat-Do they work?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #20 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 10:12 pm »

I've tried a few...and has been the case before with his products, the Herbie's Audio Labs mat provided the most benefit.

I had his original Grundgebuster and Grungebuster II...and I think the newest one is the Black Hole.

I think the goods ones mostly work on the basis of damping the disc...and turning that energy into heat. At 44,100, or 192,000 samples per second - there is a lot to get wrong inside those machines with vibration internally generated by the spinning disc and digital player mechanism itself in the same room as speakers propagating sound waves.

The green edging nor green overlay discs did nothing...the ones that damp without overdamping work indeed.

John

markC · « **Reply #21 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 10:14 pm »

Hey Wayner. My transport has an aluminum clamp as well. CD mat works perfectly fine with the clamp, so that excuse is out. Most of these mats are no more than a couple of sheets of paper thick, so that excuse is out. You really ought to have experience in something b4 you pass judgement.
I've got a mat because the person I bought the transport from included it. Do I use it? No. Does it make a difference? Yes. Very subtle, but it does smooth things out a bit. I don't use it because the gains to hassle ratio isn't worth it for me.
Guess I'm a little like Pez in that department.

Pez · « **Reply #22 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 10:22 pm »

Yes, I tend to shy away from high user involvement tweaks. The kind that you have to do something with the actual media are the worst IMO! Never cared for the green marker, never re-ripped all my music with this or that "fantastic" new memorex cds etc. IMO the benefit you gain from such things are outstripped by the time involved in doing them.

Now on to the actual science of cd mats. It seems to me that adding weight to "dampen" a disc is folly. Why? Because if the weight you add isn't precisely on the centripetal center of the disc and "vibration dampening" will actually be worsened and cause the disc to wobble even more. And with the constant putting on/taking off one would have an even lesser chance of doing this successfully and repetitively.

I am a tweaky kinda guy, but this is one of those things that I never found appealing.

kip_ · « **Reply #23 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 11:23 pm »

For anyone who missed the sarcasm in my post,

http://www.snopes.com/music/media/marker.htm

DTB300 · « **Reply #24 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 11:36 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 23 Mar 2010, 10:22 pm

Yes, I tend to shy away from high user involvement tweaks.

Curious - Adding a mat is high involvement? You must not play vinyl then (kidding, joke, ha ha...)

Place a CD in the drawer, add the mat on top: 1-2 sec at most; close drawer. I would not define this as high involvement, but each to their own. This is what I like about the FIM, easy to use.

Herbies can be put on and never removed or used over and over - takes a little more time and effort than the FIM, but significantly cheaper - if used over and over.

But if you really do not like to use a mat, it is totally understood.

jqp · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 12:15 am »

Quote from: Pez on 23 Mar 2010, 10:22 pm

Yes, I tend to shy away from high user involvement tweaks. The kind that you have to do something with the actual media are the worst IMO! Never cared for the green marker, never re-ripped all my music with this or that "fantastic" new memorex cds etc. IMO the benefit you gain from such things are outstripped by the time involved in doing them.

Now on to the actual science of cd mats. It seems to me that adding weight to "dampen" a disc is folly. Why? Because if the weight you add isn't precisely on the centripetal center of the disc and "vibration dampening" will actually be worsened and cause the disc to wobble even more. And with the constant putting on/taking off one would have an even lesser chance of doing this successfully and repetitively.

I am a tweaky kinda guy, but this is one of those things that I never found appealing.

Actually there may well be a difference in a CD with the mat and one without, when played - there would surely be more error correction on the CD with the "dampening" mat due to it wobbling more. Remember these things average between 200 and 500 rpm and can spin at 3000 rpm!

So perhaps what people are hearing is the effect of more error correction. On some CDs it may "improve" the sound.

Pez · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 02:41 am »

Quote from: DTB300 on 23 Mar 2010, 11:36 pm

Curious - Adding a mat is high involvement? You must not play vinyl then (kidding, joke, ha ha...)

Place a CD in the drawer, add the mat on top: 1-2 sec at most; close drawer. I would not define this as high involvement, but each to their own. This is what I like about the FIM, easy to use.

Herbies can be put on and never removed or used over and over - takes a little more time and effort than the FIM, but significantly cheaper - if used over and over.

But if you really do not like to use a mat, it is totally understood.

If you really want to "improve" your system IMO spending time/money on something like this is usually a replacement for a lack of understanding of how to really make drastic improvements. I hate to say it, but most audiophiles are incredibly ignorant and tend to spend a ton of time with microscopic improvements and not tackle the HUGE problems inherent in their systems, like bass nulls, humps, getting rid of their crossover and going active etc etc.

These are what I like to call "plug and play" audiophiles and they LOVE potions, mats, and stupid Totem beaks. Why? Because they don't have the slightest clue about what they're doing and somebody, somewhere told them to use a little silicon mat on top of their CDs and it will make a HUGE improvement. Plus they don't have to actually understand sh!t to do it, nor are they at any risk of screwing anything up.

I promise you 98% of the people posting in this forum don't actually know the first thing about the drastic problems inherent in their systems and the ways to fix it, yet that same 98% use cones, mats, pixie dust etc in their system. come back to me when you've got your setup to be relatively flat within 5db from 20hz-20khz and phase coherent THEN tell me who hasn't taken the time make a huge improvement in their system.

All that said, I am not discounting ANY tweak... Ok I'm discounting those stupid ass totem beaks. I use quite a few myself and am sure to use quite a few in the future. I am saying that 100% of audiophiles have problems in their system, drastic problems, that no tweak will fix!

eclein · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 12:51 pm »

With my luck the mat would spin off and trash my already limping blu-ray player...saving for an oppo. My current SONY->BDP-S360 is on its last legs I think.

turkey · « **Reply #28 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 01:33 pm »

I kind of figure that the engineers who designed the transport in my CD player designed it to play CDs. They did not design it to play a stack of 2 CDs or a CD and a disc made of whatever.

The added mass and possibility of being out of round or out of balance probably won't sit well with the carefully engineered transport and servo systems.

jtwrace · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 01:39 pm »

I used to use the Herbies mat...now my hard drive doesn't require such tweaks.

Some will swear by them....

DTB300 · « **Reply #30 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 03:41 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 24 Mar 2010, 02:41 am

I am saying that 100% of audiophiles have problems in their system, drastic problems, that no tweak will fix!

I do not think this topic is talking about fixing your setup by a CD mat. OP wondered if some have tried it and the results. The real question or attack should be on the source player itself and its faults addressed first along with the synergy of other components and your room.

I will agree a CD mat will not cure your ills of poor CD playback.

The assumption 98% of people posting here having no clue on their setups is.....well.......interesting.

BTW, I see you list a DCX Processor - which do you use?

eclein · « **Reply #31 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 09:24 pm »

I just wanted to see if anybody had used one and if they worked?
I am new and reading about a lot of these things for the first time so was curious.

For instance I had the ability to use passive Bi-amping for the first time without even knowing it, and when I read about the topic here and finally did it, it was a real game changer. When I read about CD-mats my first thought was to ask you guys if they had merit. I'm on a fixed income so any tweak thats cheap is worth checking out for me. One of the ones I saw was over $100, that is a lot for me....I'm not complaining about my situation at all, I love finding deals on CL and small tweaks to do...its all good, its all about MUSIC!!

hifiman5 · « **Reply #32 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 12:13 am »

My Arcam CD-192's drive doesn't have enough clearance for even Herbie's DC mat. Ugh

markC · « **Reply #33 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 01:44 am »

Pez, I think your dispenser is providing sour candy.To assume that 98% of us that belong to this site don't know shite about acoustics, room layout, equipment, tweaks,(false or true), cables, (false or true), ability to actually hear what's going on, etc., etc., is a little more than presumptuous.
I've been into 2 channel audio for a long time, so please do not include me in your 98% blanket statment.

doug s. · « **Reply #34 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 01:52 am »

Quote from: hifiman5 on 25 Mar 2010, 12:13 am

My Arcam CD-192's drive doesn't have enough clearance for even Herbie's DC mat. Ugh

ugh? be thankful - one less silly (imo) tweak you have to contend with.

doug s.

Pez · « **Reply #35 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 02:22 am »

Quote from: markC on 25 Mar 2010, 01:44 am

Pez, I think your dispenser is providing sour candy.To assume that 98% of us that belong to this site don't know shite about acoustics, room layout, equipment, tweaks,(false or true), cables, (false or true), ability to actually hear what's going on, etc., etc., is a little more than presumptuous.
I've been into 2 channel audio for a long time, so please do not include me in your 98% blanket statment.

Nice reading skills.

I didn't say that you don't know shit about acoustics, though I stick to the "assumption" that most people here don't. You, me, and everyone else have way more drastic problems in their system and most people don't do anything about the big issues and buy CD mats instead. I'm not saying that mats don't work or that they aren't a worthy upgrade/tweak I am stating that people need to look at other more important aspects of their system FIRST rather than worry about fringe tweaks.

The truth hurts, now swallow it and quit complaining.

edit: and to answer the above question I have a modded DCX2496 which is pretty good, but far from perfect.

markC · « **Reply #36 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 02:38 am »

I guess what I'm trying to imply is that I know damned well that I have acoustic problems in my room that CD mats and magic dots can't fix!
It's the poor newbie types that get drawn into the falsehoods that are so comonplace that I'm trying to bring forward.

Pez · « **Reply #37 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 02:45 am »

So we are in total agreement! Major room nodes, speaker position and of course everything BIG in the audio line 1st and foremost, THEN worry about tweaks. Either way, it's your money, if you want to buy tweaks that may or may not help your system sound better than so be it. If you want to take time to address horrid big problems that absolutely will improve your setup then I guess go that route.

markC · « **Reply #38 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 02:49 am »

I kind of hate to admit it, but, yes we are in agreement.

Pez · « **Reply #39 on:** 25 Mar 2010, 03:07 am »

BOO YAA!

haha.