Tube vs SS preamp and soundstage

sanjaygolf · « **on:** 21 Mar 2010, 12:15 am »

I recently just got my first tube gear: Mapletree Line 2A SE. I've been comparing it to my previous preamp: Emotiva RSP-1. One thing that really stands out is that the music seems to be within the speakers when listening to the Mapletree. When listening to my SS Emotiva, there is a lot more separation and the music extends beyond the speakers. Is this a common occurrence with tube preamps?

Pez · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 03:12 am »

To say that it is a common occurance would be false. I think it sounds more like a synergistic issue with your amp-preamp-speaker interaction. It's possible that the mapletree is just a poor match for your system. Perhaps try using a different tubed preamp to make sure. Also possible is that the tubes you are using are just not up to par. Give us a better idea of what all your equipment is, toe in on your speakers etc.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 03:20 am »

You should try some tube rolling. Some tubes have wide sound stages and more transparency than others. What tubes are in your Mapletree preamp? Give Mapletree a call and see if they have any recommendations on tubes, otherwise check the internet and the various tube stores on line. You will be surprised at how different brand tubes and older new tubes (new old stock or NOS tubes) can make a drastic difference in tone, sound stage, transparency, depth and resolution in the music. I use a Van Alstine Hybrid tube preamp and hybrid tube DAC along with my solid state Parasound Halo A21 amp and the sound is great.

sanjaygolf · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 04:25 am »

Ok, I'm a moron. I had Y-cable on the other output to connect my sub cable to and that in turn turned the signal into mono.

JakeJ · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 05:00 am »

Oh, that's jus' a lil' boo boo.

Moron is too strong.

Another point to make is, did you buy the Mapletree new? If so it may need some break in time. If not then have fun and buy some tubes to roll as they are designed with rolling in mind.

Best,
Jake

Pez · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 07:03 am »

Yes "Moron" is reserved for when you blow something up, like a $1500 modified DCX, or try to rewire an amp and when testing whether it works you use a $50 audiophile grade Furutech fuse forgetting that it is installed and blow it because your wiring was not done correctly. Those are moronic moves, and... uhh... I'm just using them as uhhh... random examples... Yeah random examples, not something I have actually done myself.

Kinger · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 02:21 pm »

So now that you have fixed the connections, how does it sound compared to your Emotiva?

Bigfish · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 02:43 pm »

I have used a Mapletree 2A-SE for approximately 1.5 years. Please experiment with different tubes as you will find tube changes definitely impact the qualities of the music. I am currently using a NOS Mullard Rectifier and Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates in mine. With the right tubes it will compete sound-wise with much more expensive preamps.

Good Luck,

Ken

sanjaygolf · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 09:27 pm »

Quote from: Kinger on 21 Mar 2010, 02:21 pm

So now that you have fixed the connections, how does it sound compared to your Emotiva?

The Mapletree has more dimensionality. It truly feels "live", like the singers and instruments are in the room. Haha, I hate to use the movie Avatar as an analogy (even though I do like it), but comparing the two preamps is like comparing Avatar in 2D and 3D. Both have amazing detail but the Emotiva seems to have everything on the same plane while the Mapletree is fuller and rounder and you just feel like you're apart of everything.

Also, I have a couple of different tubes (6SN7, 12SN7, 12SX7gt) and different rectifiers. What is the best way to go about tube rolling? I just find it a little hard to compare one to another when I have to turn the unit off and let everything cool down before I change the tubes out.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 10:29 pm »

No need to let things cool down before rolling. Just wear winter gloves to handle the hot tubes.

sanjaygolf · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 10:32 pm »

Winter gloves??? Haha, I live in FL. My winter clothing consists of two long sleeve shirts.

Bigfish · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Mar 2010, 11:48 pm »

My advice is to find the signal (preamp) tubes you like best before rolling any rectifiers. The signal tubes have much more impact on the sound.

Ken

kach22i · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Mar 2010, 06:42 pm »

Quote from: sanjaygolf on 21 Mar 2010, 12:15 am

I recently just got my first tube gear:

Put a couple hundred hours on the tubes and call me in the morning.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Mar 2010, 11:06 pm »

Oven mitts then...that's assuming that you guys cook food in Florida.

Quote from: sanjaygolf on 21 Mar 2010, 10:32 pm

Winter gloves??? Haha, I live in FL. My winter clothing consists of two long sleeve shirts.

JoshK · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 01:33 am »

Quote from: kach22i on 22 Mar 2010, 06:42 pm

Put a couple hundred hours on the tubes and call me in the morning.

Got a time warp machine? Last time I checked there is only 24 hours in a day.

JoshK · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 01:34 am »

Quote from: Pez on 21 Mar 2010, 07:03 am

Yes "Moron" is reserved for when you blow something up, like a $1500 modified DCX, or try to rewire an amp and when testing whether it works you use a $50 audiophile grade Furutech fuse forgetting that it is installed and blow it because your wiring was not done correctly. Those are moronic moves, and... uhh... I'm just using them as uhhh... random examples... Yeah random examples, not something I have actually done myself.

Ouch.

JoshK · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 01:38 am »

Quote from: sanjaygolf on 21 Mar 2010, 12:15 am

I recently just got my first tube gear: Mapletree Line 2A SE. I've been comparing it to my previous preamp: Emotiva RSP-1. One thing that really stands out is that the music seems to be within the speakers when listening to the Mapletree. When listening to my SS Emotiva, there is a lot more separation and the music extends beyond the speakers. Is this a common occurrence with tube preamps?

No, I wouldn't say that is the common experience. I've owned various SS preamps with the Mapletree 2A in the same system and had the opposite experience. Well almost. The soundstage width was near identical, but the depth was far deeper with the Mapletree.

Who knows, you could just have a great example of a SS preamp. You could have a dud of a tube or two. You could have non-synergistic mating between your amp and preamp. What amp do you have?

doug s. · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 01:43 am »

Quote from: sanjaygolf on 21 Mar 2010, 09:27 pm

The Mapletree has more dimensionality. It truly feels "live", like the singers and instruments are in the room. Haha, I hate to use the movie Avatar as an analogy (even though I do like it), but comparing the two preamps is like comparing Avatar in 2D and 3D. Both have amazing detail but the Emotiva seems to have everything on the same plane while the Mapletree is fuller and rounder and you just feel like you're apart of everything....

welcome to the wonderful world of tubes!

doug s.

sanjaygolf · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 02:11 am »

Quote from: doug s. on 23 Mar 2010, 01:43 am

welcome to the wonderful world of tubes!

doug s.

Thanks. It's been fun listening to my music collection again. I was always afraid of tubes since I thought it would color the sound too much and not provide accurate music reproduction. But my fears have been washed away by what I've been hearing so far. I'm really glad I took a chance.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 12:05 pm »

If you like what you hear (and it sounds like you do!) then try a tube amp sometime. I find it even more of a good thing. It's not to everyone's tastes but why not see for yourself?