New Ray Samuels Phono Stage/ Nighthawk

Sonny · « **Reply #60 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 07:13 pm »

Quote from: tomjtx on 20 Mar 2010, 06:57 pm

You make an excellent point, Tuan.

I think "brain burn in " is a significant part of burn in.

I'm on my 4th day now and still loving the sound of the Nighthawk.
This one is a keeper for me.

Tom J.

Great to hear Tom!
Keep us posted!

shaizada · « **Reply #61 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 07:18 pm »

Tuan,

I've experienced exactly what you mentioned before with other components. However, I've heard a well burned in Nighthawk against the Einstein with the manufacturer sitting right next to me listening at my place

We were both comparing the two together (he was down for the head-fi meet I hosted and we were doing these comparisons the night before).

I remember what I heard, so I'm basically just waiting for the Nighthawk to settle down and give me some of that magic back. Burn in is definitely a two way street...the components needs to settle down AND your brain needs to settle down with the sound as well. It's all part of the game

I have very high expectations for this bugger and the versatility it offers is second to none. I love being able to change the gain on the phono and dialing in the sound for a given cut.

tomjtx · « **Reply #62 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 07:37 pm »

I listened to my old Eoropean Phillips disc of Camaron de la Isla.

This is a very clean pressing and I was especially blown away by the dead quiet background, I thought it was a CD for a moment (but with anologue goodness)

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #63 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 09:28 pm »

They have a 30 day money back guarantee so you could try and only lose the shipping.

Quote from: tnewell on 20 Mar 2010, 05:12 pm

I almost pulled the trigger on one of these yesterday. Curious to see how it compares to my Aesthetix Rhea. Buyers remorse set in this morning and I may hold off for a while.

May use the money instead for a new cartridge purchase.

Tom

shaizada · « **Reply #64 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 10:12 pm »

Plugged the Nighthawk back in.

Sorry guys, I'm going to have to eat my words back. It's taken a sudden turn UP in sound again. Thats why you just don't comment on the sound when you get a new piece of equipment in. Too much fluctuation and variation!

Anyhow, sounds fantastic again....bass is strong and linear, mids are full and elegantly rendered with amazing speed and articulation. Highs have that transient attack again that makes your arm hair stand on end. This guy totally took me by surprise again.

This is more like it...more like I remember the full broken-in version sounding.

Guys, get it on and see if it floats your boat. There is a 30 day return policy so there really is NO RISK whatsoever. Just make sure you burn it in well before deciding (as my posts attest to it, the break in can really throw you off).

tomjtx · « **Reply #65 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 10:15 pm »

That's more like it!
Glad to hear it's getting where it needs to be

Gopher · « **Reply #66 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 11:22 pm »

Anyone using this for high output MC or MM carts? I have a Sound Smith "The Voice" and a Nagoaka MP-50 coming this week and I'm curious how it will fare with these lesser gain demands.

shaizada · « **Reply #67 on:** 20 Mar 2010, 11:28 pm »

Just remember the MM input has a capacitance set at 220pf as standard. If you want some other capacitance, Ray can do it easily, but for 90% of the MM out there, 220pf is just fine.

High output MC is no problem at all. The gain has more than enough variance.

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #68 on:** 22 Mar 2010, 03:27 pm »

Just a quick update on my "Nighthawk Experience". First off my current phono stage is the EE MiniMax. Really good for the money. My only 2 complaints is the gain & Noise when I crank it up. But the noise is with most tube units.

I have about 72 hours on the unit, so I'm not going to say too much. I'm a firm believer in giving any new equipment 200 hours before really commenting.

But so far here is what I've experienced:
1. Dead quiet (you would expect that from a battery operated unit).
2. Black Background/Precise imaging. Instruments suspended in space
3. Dynamic/Bass very deep and tight.

Still waiting on the unit to smooth out. That is one area the MiniMax excelled at. But this is tube magic. I do believe the process is beginning?

More to come with more time on the unit.

tomjtx · « **Reply #69 on:** 22 Mar 2010, 03:58 pm »

Quote from: DARTH AUDIO on 22 Mar 2010, 03:27 pm

Just a quick update on my "Nighthawk Experience". First off my current phono stage is the EE MiniMax. Really good for the money. My only 2 complaints is the gain & Noise when I crank it up. But the noise is with most tube units.

I have about 72 hours on the unit, so I'm not going to say too much. I'm a firm believer in giving any new equipment 200 hours before really commenting.

But so far here is what I've experienced:
1. Dead quiet (you would expect that from a battery operated unit).
2. Black Background/Precise imaging. Instruments suspended in space
3. Dynamic/Bass very deep and tight.

Still waiting on the unit to smooth out. That is one area the MiniMax excelled at. But this is tube magic. I do believe the process is beginning?

More to come with more time on the unit.

I'm with you on all 3 of those.

I should get my riaa unit to further burn in the Nighthawk this week.

What are you doing for burn in ?

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #70 on:** 22 Mar 2010, 04:20 pm »

Quote from: tomjtx on 22 Mar 2010, 03:58 pm

I'm with you on all 3 of those.

I should get my riaa unit to further burn in the Nighthawk this week.

What are you doing for burn in ?

Just leaving it on all the time. I played a lot of vinyl this weekend. Ray told me to leave it on all the time and then re-charge the unit. He said to do this 3 times, then do some serious listening. We'll see if this get's the job done.

Gopher · « **Reply #71 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 01:56 am »

I'm encountering something a little strange. I just moved from a low output moving coil cartridge to a higher output moving magnet and I've got some noise now. In decreasing my gain significantly, I seem to have amplified my noise...

Its sounding nice, but I've lost my jet black background. Fwiw I went from a Koetsu Rosewood Signature to a Nagoaka MP-50. What am I doing wrong?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #72 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 03:00 am »

Gopher,

The Naggies, for that matter any moving iron/magnet, have higher inductance than any moving coil - hi or lo output.

So, the 'noise' you hear may well be the cartridge 'motor' itself...amplified thru your system. Unless you are referring to some other kind of noise

(the type of stylus shape and even grain orientation of the diamond and influence perceived noise, too)

Tho a lower gain at your preamp, you have a lot higher inductance (aka, self generated noise) at your motor source with the Nagoaka.

I've maintained for a while that the allure of moving coils are their inherent lower inductance over MI/MM's. The trade-off is that they have to be damped somewhere internally, or 'tuned' by ear, and that's where the unnaturalness over MI/MM's come in.

So there really is no in-between in cartridges. You have to fall into one camp and appreciate it's virtues and mostly live without the others virtues.

Some exceptions to the rule of the trade-off include low output Grado and Pickering/Stanton models....and to a lesser extent higher output Grados too. The low output Grado/Pickering/Stantons have very, very low inductance - for moving irons/magnets - but, still cannot play with the inky blackness (ie, 'quiet') of an inherently low inductance moving coil (hi or low output).

I think you may be hearing the difference in inductance levels between the Nagoaka and the Koetsu.

Enjoy what you can of each style

This Ray Samuels phono preamp is really intriguing - thanks to all for bringing it to my attention

John

Gopher · « **Reply #73 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 03:30 am »

I think you may be right as the noise being from the cartridge motor, as it is present even when cartridge is not cued. No biggie, this Nagoaka is sounding delicious! I'm relieved to say that I don't think I will miss my Koetsu.

I'm 90% sold on this thing. I'm a little concerned about matching an acrylic bodied Voice with this highly resolving solid state phono pre, but if this bugger holds its own when I mount her up, it will be a a new permanent addition to my system.

shaizada · « **Reply #74 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 03:32 am »

Gopher,

where did you buy the MP50 from and how do you like it so far compared to the Koetsu? Can you give a little more info on that? I've been wanting to hear a Koetsu in my setup ever since the beginning of my vinyl journey.

I've heard them in other setups and loved them, but not in my own setup yet.

Gopher · « **Reply #75 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 02:27 pm »

I don't want to de-rail the topic too much, but I snagged the one that came up on audiogon recently. The original cartridge was heavily used, but a brand new stylus was just dropped into the body, so as far as I'm concerned it is new.

Its kind of early to do a real comparison as I've only listened for three or four hours, but my first impression are pretty positive. The MP-50 gets tone down really well and is more full on the bottom end with pretty good dynamics. At the same time I feel it is a little slower in presentation--I'm going to play with lightening the VTF a bit tonight to see if I can get it sounding a little more nimble. For now its tracking like a champ and tackling inner grooves without issue.

Some refinement is absolutely lost, but I've found myself consistently willing to sacrifice 'polished' for 'fun'. I don't think I will miss the Koetsu based on what I heard from it, but I also acknowledge that the Rosewood Sig would probably have done better with a heavier tonearm, and that I had to over dampen it to make up for the compliance miss match.

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #76 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 04:19 pm »

Quote from: DARTH AUDIO on 22 Mar 2010, 03:27 pm

Just a quick update on my "Nighthawk Experience". First off my current phono stage is the EE MiniMax. Really good for the money. My only 2 complaints is the gain & Noise when I crank it up. But the noise is with most tube units.

I have about 72 hours on the unit, so I'm not going to say too much. I'm a firm believer in giving any new equipment 200 hours before really commenting.

But so far here is what I've experienced:
1. Dead quiet (you would expect that from a battery operated unit).
2. Black Background/Precise imaging. Instruments suspended in space
3. Dynamic/Bass very deep and tight.

Still waiting on the unit to smooth out. That is one area the MiniMax excelled at. But this is tube magic. I do believe the process is beginning?

More to come with more time on the unit.

The Nighthawk also seems to be pulling more information from the grooves!! I'm hearing some passages that I haven't heard before. Nothing mind blowing, but enough to look up and think "I've never heard that before"!! And this is vinyl that I have been listening to for quite some time!! I played Bill Bruford's "Feels Good to Me" side one and it was the most dynamic and involving I've ever heard it!! Annette Peacock was in the room singing. I was scary good!! Some of that has to go to my new Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers. But that phono stage keeps getting better with each passing day. More to come.

Gary

tomjtx · « **Reply #77 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 09:43 pm »

This is my experience also: more info from the groves.
It's hard to believe such a small and inexpensive unit does so much.

toobluvr · « **Reply #78 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 09:51 pm »

Quote from: tomjtx on 23 Mar 2010, 09:43 pm

It's hard to believe such a small and inexpensive unit does so much.

I have the identical reaction to the Vista Audio ACLE phono section. Now you guys have triggered another "gotta have" reaction and got me jonsin for the 'hawk.

Damn fellas, you think I'm made outta money?!

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #79 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 01:04 am »

Mine should be in tomorrow

I'll post my thoughts after I've had a spell with it.