[CABrystonOwner10]

Hi Folks,

Please don’t let this thread deteriorate into “mine is bigger than yours”.  We have been down this road before and it leads nowhere!

James

I second James' comment wholeheartedly. This is not a contest, just helping a fellow music lover by sharing first-hand information limited to a very specific and obsolete product line of one company. I am making NO general claims. I still own and use tube gear. 

[Prosoundman1000]

   
   The investment here is very substantial either way you venture.  Ask yourself these questions.

  Do I require more than 200 watts to drive my loudspeakers to satisfying volumes with plenty left in the tank for transients.  Also, can my loudspeakers, significant other(s) and neighbors take the SPL.  What is the efficiency db/watt/meter of your loudspeakers.  200 watts is ample for speakers 88 db or better. Both amplifiers will achieve roughly the same SPL based on Ohm's Law and what I know about tube gear.
  Secondly, do I want the chore and expense of replacing tubes down the road.
  Third question:  Can I hear the difference between tubes and transistors. Be honest here.  Many 'audiophiles' can't.  If you can: do you have a preference?
  Fourth and I feel most important.  Is digital my main source of music. Why? Digital sounds much richer and fleshed out through tubes.  My opinion. Solid-state people need not be offended or reply to this point.  I've heard ALL the arguments.
  If the answer to this is yes, I score points for tubes over solid-sate.
  If you listen mostly to vinyl then solid-state is much less an issue.
   These are perhaps some of the questions you should be considering.  Asking an open forum to choose where you should spend your dough is ludicrous. IMO

   Personally, I like the 'sound' of tubes.  Specifically single ended triodes with zero feedback.  Pure Class A all the way.  Unfortunately for you (and me), these don't come with 200 watt outputs.  KR Audios Kronzilla comes in a 50 watt and a 100 watt model and they sound quite lovely.  Downside is the output tubes are huge, beautiful and cost about $1200.00 each.  Ouch. The amplifiers are not cheap either. I can't afford a pair.

    I've heard the BRYSTON.  It sounds very good and comes with a 20 year warranty.  I can imagine the AR sounds glorious but you will replace tubes at least three times during the same 20 year period. ( on average)

    My best advice is to listen to them both extensively with all genres of music; even stuff you dislike.  Whichever amp brings you into the music and fully engages your senses is the right choice.

  If any of this babble has helped: I'm shocked and pleased to have done so.  Cheers.

[drummermitchell]

Yep ,tubes or solidstate,whatever gets me close to the MUSIC. I think the music is the star of the show afterall.That's why I like music because of the music it makes.
If solidstate gets me there emotionally ,if tubes do it .
My am radio in the van gets me there sometimes .WHOA,I'd better get back to my livin room where
it's really goin on .

[*Scotty*]

Waker, For the amount of money you are talking about spending I would settle for nothing less than having both amplifiers in my house at the same time and let the best amp win. Soliciting opinions about which amp is best or how they differ from one another in the context of a forum is an almost meaningless exercise . You have to answer which is the best amp for your system yourself.
Scotty

[Sasha]

I see the meatloaf is back with drivel about tubes.
To the poster, 7B is not close to tube sound, it is closer to those that have no sound of its own, and while certainly not among the best amplifiers out there as some say, IMO it is better choice in your case. Any 7B, be that original SST, C-series, or SST2. I do not know of another amplifier in price range that surpasses it.
And since you have 4B SST rest assured that 7B SST is significantly better than 4B SST, especially if you have demanding speakers.

[gerald porzio]

Figure 2000 hrs. of use per sets of output tubes - $1200 every 2000 hrs. Do the math. Think of the unbearable heat in summer. That's 2 strikes. Tube gear can get pricey to repair should issues occur. Strike 3!

[James Tanner]

One aspect of this topic that should be expressed is the design goal of the amplifier in question. 

Bryston has always tried to design amplifiers which, given the current state of the art, will perform in as 'linear' a way as possible. 

There is a big difference between designing something where 'neutrality' (passing the signal with a little change as possible) is the goal vs 'voicing' or 'sounding' a specific way is the goal.

james

[toobluvr]

Figure 2000 hrs. of use per sets of output tubes - $1200 every 2000 hrs. Do the math. Think of the unbearable heat in summer. That's 2 strikes. Tube gear can get pricey to repair should issues occur. Strike 3!

#1)  some folks are willing to pay for a/c for the better sound that tubes provide

#2)  some folks are willing to pay the costs of repair and tube replacement for the better sound that tubes provide.

[hibuckhobby]

Having had ARC tubes for years and also being very familiar with Bryston
(at least the 4B) I would say that they are both good amps, but do sound
different.  Those Maggies like current and the Brystons will have more on
hand and will also have a higher damping factor.

Still, there is (to me) nothing quite like the midrange and dimensionality of
tubes.  As you know, ARC tubes are NOT stereotypical "warm mid, wooly bass,
rolled back highs" of the tubes of yesteryear.  What's more, you might be
very surprised what 200w from tube mono's will do. 

As a native Minnnesotan, now exiled in Illinois, I would second the recommendation
that you take the tubes home and try them.  I've spend my share of time at
Audio Perfection.  Good to hear they're still around.
regards,
Hibuckhobby

[gerald porzio]

Not all tube repairs are cheaper than SS repair. Not all SS repairs require output  stage repairs. Make sure you have a macho AC unit for summertime.

[toobluvr]

Make sure you have a macho AC unit for summertime.

Ridiculous statement.  I've owned many many tube amps and the only one that had a noticeable effect on room temps were my OTL monos.

[woodsyi]

Ridiculous statement.  I've owned many many tube amps and the only one that had a noticeable effect on room temps were my OTL monos.

Big tube power amps will actually do make room get noticeably warmer.  If you have a gathering in the summer, it will get hot in the room.  I got 60 tubes running when I fire up my analog.  It's great in winter but not so in summer.

[toobluvr]

Big tube power amps will actually do make room get noticeably warmer.  If you have a gathering in the summer, it will get hot in the room.  I got 60 tubes running when I fire up my analog.  It's great in winter but not so in summer.

Of course some will, I've acknowledged that.  But I thought GP was making a blanket statement and saying most would.  Apologies if I misunderstood him.

[woodsyi]

GP does make over the top comments but I think we can safely assume that any big power tube amps needed to run Maggies will get the room warm. 

BTW, I turn my AC off when I do serious listening so that the furnace noise doesn't affect the music.  I even ask my wife to hold off the washer and dryer.  She is cool as long as I promise to do the load before coming up. 

[95Dyna]

I call em as I see em, Dyna.......call em as I see em.  Sorry that my opinion disturbs you so.

Of course I am biased.  Everyone is.   Yeah, in general I prefer tubes.  But that is based on experience.....lot of experience.  My allegiance to tubes is not blind, as you seem to suggest.  It is born from years of listening to lots of different stuff.....all technologies.  I keep an open mind to everything. 

Matter of fact my first high-end system back in 1995 was Bryston:  3BST amp and BP20 preamp.  Then I discovered the wonder of tubes.  They opened up a world of sound that I never knew existed.  The Bryston stuff did not even last 6 months in my system.  And you know what?  I did not even have to go very high up the tube chain to find what I thought was sonically superior.    It was replaced by a very modest tube amp.  But that's me.  Others may hear differently or have speakers that require real SS grunt.

Another story for ya....
Guy came to my place to buy my Bryston gear for his Maggies.   He was a bit of a newbie and unfamiliar with tubes.  He listened to my very modest tubed system for awhile and was completely enchanted.  That was all it took.  He didn't buy the Bryston...sold his Maggies.....and built a tube based system.
 
Look, I have no beef with Bryston.  I have no beef with SS in general.  I understand there are certain speakers that require SS.  If you like it, fine.   I just bought a SS amp two weeks ago.  I ask you, would a closed-minded person do that? 

In my orig post I did not even say what I thought would be better for the OP.  I simply said that I thought most responses in this venue would be slanted in one direction.  And that statement is based on the pom-pom waving  I observe in here.  You guys are allowed to have your club, but let's be honest about things.

I'm sure Bryston is a very fine product.  But try to keep an open mind and listen to other stuff.  I won't be surprised if in a few years I see you singing the praises of tubes.  Seen it many times in the past.  It usually happens when folks grow and get a bit of experience.

Just an observation for ya:  in my years in this game I have seen many many die-hard SS guys swinging over to the tube camp with comments like "I finally get it.....I didn't realize what I was missing all these years".  Seen it dozens of times on this board alone.  I don't know that I've ever seen it happen the other way 'round.

That should tell you something.  With experience comes wisdom.  Just something to keep in mind the next time you feel the urge to be dismissive of someone who happens to prefer tubes.  Maybe they have that preference for very good reason.

Toobluvr,

You have completely missed my point.  If you go back and read cabrystonowner10's post which kicked off his thread he was not asking for any opinions about tube amps vs. SS amps which, as werd has pointed out, is the 100 year war that is like .  What he asked for was a comparison of two amps one just happens to be SS and the other tube.  Then not 5 posts into the thread in a major breach of Audio Circle etiquette a bunch of tube enthusiasts show up and hijack his thread.  It is this that bothers me, not your opinion or your enthusiasm for tube based amps.  As you like to say, "I call 'em as I see 'em".

Regards,

Bill

[toobluvr]

Toobluvr,

You have completely missed my point.  If you go back and read cabrystonowner10's post which kicked off his thread he was not asking for any opinions about tube amps vs. SS amps which, as werd has pointed out, is the 100 year war that is like .  What he asked for was a comparison of two amps one just happens to be SS and the other tube.  Then not 5 posts into the thread in a major breach of Audio Circle etiquette a bunch of tube enthusiasts show up and hijack his thread.  It is this that bothers me, not your opinion or your enthusiasm for tube based amps.  As you like to say, "I call 'em as I see 'em".

Regards,

Bill

Bill......I understand perfectly what the OP wanted.

My first post simply said he would get a biased opinion in favor of Bryston in this circle, and that he should view any recs in this light.  I made no recommendation and I showed no bias to tubes.  I made a simple observation.  I did not "hijack" the thread.  Why get so upset?
 

What the OP did is equivalent to walking into Yankee Stadium and asking the avg fan if they prefer the Red Sox or the Yanks.  I simply pointed this out to him.

I only went into my long winded comparison of tubes vs SS after you got pissy and accused me of some sort of bias.  My response in this manner was probably ill-advised, but I felt the need to explain myself.

Honestly,  some of you guys in this circle are way too touchy and defensive.  Why can't someone make a simple observation without getting your panties in a twist?   

Just go back to enjoying music and stop worrying that the whole world does not prefer Bryston.

John

[gerald porzio]

"Ridiculous statement.  I've owned many many tube amps and the only one that had a noticeable effect on room temps were my OTL monos."

Obviously you never ran ARC VTM 200s.

[mclsound]

Ridiculous statement.  I've owned many many tube amps and the only one that had a noticeable effect on room temps were my OTL monos.

Goodness me,I have a simple Raysonic CD-128 in a fully insulated 13.5x22' room and if i have it on with its 4 little tubes,it helps heat up the room in the middle of winter with the furnace off,summer is even worse.I also had a AR reference 2mk2 preamp,and it will also heat up the room,so i am sure a 200w tube amp will heat up a room.

[werd]

I have posted this before but i think we need to be reminded of how bad these SS vs tube conversations can get. Tubes is chicken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBwbM3ZsYAg

oh yah and croc is D class

[toobluvr]

Obviously you never ran ARC VTM 200s.

Sorry GP....I thought your comment was about tubes in general, and not the ARC 200 specifically.