How many guys use passive preamps?

Big Red Machine · « **on:** 20 Feb 2010, 11:39 am »

I rarely use anything but my Squeezebox so having a preamp only gives me switching for the occasional CDP use. Presently I use Endlers with great results right at the amps after almost 20 feet of IC travel. With a DAC that employs multiple coax inputs I can switch those and bypass the need for a preamp. Is there any benefit I'm missing from not using a preamp? Sure, I could go active with a tubed pre and perhaps add some more body?

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 12:33 pm »

I've heard impedence mismatching as the reason to go active.

zybar · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 01:11 pm »

All I can say is try a few things and see what you like.

Whether it was a Bolder modified SB or a Modwright modified Transporter, I didn't think a preamp could or would improve things...after playing around with some active preamps, I determined that my prior thinking was wrong!!

Adding either a Plinius M8 (my current preamp) or a Parasound JC 2, definitely made an improvement in my system.

In the right system, I could see a good passive preamp from Bent or Placette improving things. You might also want to check out the Wryed STP preamp.

Another possible way to improve the sound when using a SB is to get a buffer. Whether you go with Wayne at Bolder or Gary at Dodd, I am confident that inserting one of these into the chain will make an improvement.

Best of luck Pete.

George

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 01:48 pm »

I forgot that perhaps why the Endlers worked so well was because the Archos were 95 db. If I end up with 88ish db speakers I may need to have an active pre.

toobluvr · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 03:05 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 20 Feb 2010, 01:11 pm

Whether it was a Bolder modified SB or a Modwright modified Transporter, I didn't think a preamp could or would improve things...after playing around with some active preamps, I determined that my prior thinking was wrong!!

If one keeps an open mind and open ears I think most folks will conclude the same -- even the most die hard passive adherents.

Personally, anytime I have compared them I hear nothing in a passive (even very good ones) that makes me wanna replace even just a decent active. But with so many different gear combos and tastes out there, YMMV.

jtwrace · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 03:27 pm »

My Dodd Buffer replaced a very sought after active pre. Got to try it in your system...

hi5harry · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 03:40 pm »

I use a Bent Audio Tap in my second system and just LOVE it. The best interface and remote I have ever had. I just had a tube stage built to follow the Bent and impart some " tube warmth" but it was just an experiment. The Bent Tap ( original version) is just a great piece of equipment!

toobluvr · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 04:20 pm »

Recently we tried my buddy's Prometheus TVC in my system. Isn't this considered a good one in the passive world? We tried it into several different amps and both agreed it sounded like complete doo-doo -- even against my very modest Minimax tubed preamp.

Matter of fact, we both thought my $100 DIY passive sounded better than the Prometheus.

toobluvr · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: Listens2tubes on 20 Feb 2010, 12:33 pm

I've heard impedence mismatching as the reason to go active.

Even when you follow the passive playbook and get it all right -- gutsy source output, short low capacitance IC, sensitive amp input, efficient speakers, and impedance matching -- not everyone likes the passive sound.

To some it sounds like all bone and no meat.

hi5harry · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 04:43 pm »

I have two systems. My upstairs system has the Supratek Cabernet with tunsol round plate 6sn7's. It drips of midrange magic, but the Bent passive is not far behind. You are correct in the fact you must have low capacitance cables( I use Tara Gold's) but the sound from my Tap does sound very tubelike. I do agree you must try before you buy, but I love my Tap!

45triode · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 05:14 pm »

i have the ultimate barebone "passive preamp" in my system, a pair of EVS ultimate attenuators. i use them right before my yamamoto 45 amp because my shindo claret pre pushes out to much gain. removing the shindo and going directly from the cdp into the amp and using the attenuators for volume control does not sound very differently, but i lose a lot of what i find an engaging sound, it is difficult to describe, but the active shindo pre adds something that is hard to pin down, it makes the music sound more coherent, more flow, more swing, more space. i would always go active.

toobluvr · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 05:42 pm »

Quote from: 45triode on 20 Feb 2010, 05:14 pm

.......removing the shindo and going directly from the cdp into the amp and using the attenuators for volume control does not sound very differently, but i lose a lot of what i find an engaging sound, it is difficult to describe, but the active shindo pre adds something that is hard to pin down, it makes the music sound more coherent, more flow, more swing, more space. i would always go active.

Those that prefer actives hear this exact same thing, and it's why they favor them.

JakeJ · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 06:30 pm »

Quote from: toobluvr on 20 Feb 2010, 04:23 pm

To some it sounds like all bone and no meat.

This has been my limited experience as well. My current VAC CPA-1 Mk II has a passive buffered option and while it is very transparent it has no life. Active preamps are the way to go for me whether tubes or SS.

Jake

DISCLAIMER - YMMV

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 01:35 am »

Quote from: zybar on 20 Feb 2010, 01:11 pm

All I can say is try a few things and see what you like.

Whether it was a Bolder modified SB or a Modwright modified Transporter, I didn't think a preamp could or would improve things...after playing around with some active preamps, I determined that my prior thinking was wrong!!

Adding either a Plinius M8 (my current preamp) or a Parasound JC 2, definitely made an improvement in my system.

In the right system, I could see a good passive preamp from Bent or Placette improving things. You might also want to check out the Wryed STP preamp.

Another possible way to improve the sound when using a SB is to get a buffer. Whether you go with Wayne at Bolder or Gary at Dodd, I am confident that inserting one of these into the chain will make an improvement.

Best of luck Pete.

George

That could be a tough choice with the reputation of the Plinius and the advanced features of the Wyred unit. And a used Plinius can be had for the same price as a new Wyred pre.

Jon L · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 02:33 am »

Quote from: zybar on 20 Feb 2010, 01:11 pm

Adding either a Plinius M8 (my current preamp) or a Parasound JC 2, definitely made an improvement in my system.

Exactly. I agree that most people should not even think about using a passive with the vast majority of speaker/amp combos out there, i.e. "normal" (read not high sensitivity) speakers especially.

Great active preamps do come at a price, however, the Plinus going for $4000+ and the JC2 around $4000. And then there are people who would call even these preamps junk and swear by their esoteric $20K+ tube esoterica

Passive preamp "thing" is possible and can yield fantastic sound in the right setup, of course. For example, a good electrostat headphone amp setup often sound much better without an active preamp in the chain, even in the richness and dynamics department..

toobluvr · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 03:03 am »

Quote from: Jon L on 21 Feb 2010, 02:33 am

And then there are people who would call even these preamps junk and swear by their esoteric $20K+ tube esoterica

I call those peeps ill-informed audio elitists and snobs!

konut · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 03:28 am »

I use a Creek OBH-12 remote passive attenuator This, now discontinued resistor based passive, has got to be one of the least expensive passives out there retailing for under $300 when new. In its optimum state, it is wide open, IOW, no resistors in the signal path. Provided the amps used have enough gain, a dynamic, clean, low distortion presentation can be realised provided the gain stage before the Creek is of high quality. I'm using a Bryston BDA-1 DAC as a switching digital source with my TV, Squeezebox, and DVD player feeding various inputs. The superb class A analog stage of the BDA-1 provides a 60 ohm output to the Creek. This setup works well.

Cacophonix · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 03:35 am »

I use adcom gfp 750 in passive mode almost exclusively. I did try going directly from SB to the odyssey, and didn't like the results. I didn't try to analyze why this was the case, but the adcom did make things a lot better.

I use selah symmetrica planar line arrays which are not exactly efficient, and are 4 ohm impedance speakers.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 03:46 am »

I did try some passive attenuators/passive transformer based pres before and for "non critical" listening it is fine, but when it really comes down to delivering nuances, fleshing out of all the info from a "busy" track, full of instruments etc... passive NEVER cuts it. An active preamp allows you to listen into an energy ladden track without the difficulty of a passive pre. Nevertheless, the biggest problem with active pres is their excessive gain...some do have variable gain which makes things work out very well.

drphoto · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 03:56 am »

At some point, when funds allow, I hope to try the the Sonic Euphoria, autoformer passive.

A highly reliable source tells me this thing kills. And it's fairly cheap even new. Apparently doesn't have the problems affecting most passives, thanks to it's tech.

My source tells me the SE is incredibly transparent, and kills most pre's costing many times it's cost. Of course you need a fairly high output source to take advantage of any passive unit.