[fplanner2000]

My tech and I installed new V-Caps into my 7Se's yesterday.  Albert graciously furnished a diagram and a narrative by e-mail several weeks ago and the caps were acquired from Chris VenHaus, again, per Albert's recommendation.  We ended up putting 5 additional bypass caps on the tweeter, supertweeter and ambient rear driver crossover, with 2 additional on the midrange crossover.  Took us about 4 1/2 hours to do the first speaker when we were figuring out the best ways to do things, and 2 hours for the 2nd.

I have recently done a number of things in my quest to improve the low level resolution of my system.  First, my Super-DAC prototype finally opened up after about 475 hours, lifting a veil or 2.  I also got a new preamp several weeks ago - Vac Signature IIa, which now has about 100 hours on it (4-500 to really open up, I'm told) and added a better powercord for the preamp yesterday when we had the speakers all moved (Synergistic Hologram A into an all SR system)).

This combination, along with the change the new caps have made, has left me pretty speechless.  Its very difficult to apportion responsiblity for the significant increase in low level detail, airiness and imaging.  I would guess 50% caps, 40% preamp and 10% PC, leaving aside the DAC.  I'm pretty surprised that I'm hearing this big a difference this quickly with the new caps, as they are brand new and should take 4-500 hours to fully open up.  My tech, the Skiing Ninja, says if I leave the system on 24/7 for 3 weeks, the caps will be broken in.  I laughed.... not going to happen.

My 7's sound like new speakers after only about 5 hours!  The mids and highs are considerably more open, detailed and extended and I know they are just going to get even better!  Low volume level detail is there in spades - I've been listening to a Keith Jarrett CD while reading the Sunday paper this morning and I had to put the paper down.  I had never heard this CD sound like it now does.

Thanks again Albert.  Now if I can just snap my fingers and have 500 more hours put on the system immediately.....

[douglesc]

Would you be willing to let us know what brand of caps came out of the stock VR7. Just curious,Thanks.

[fplanner2000]

Douglesc -
We didn't take any caps out of the 7's, we just added V-caps as bypass caps.  They were placed in parallel with the existing caps.
I really didn't pay any attention to the brand(s) of the existing caps, since it didn't seem relevant to what we were doing.

[douglesc]

Interesting. I was just wondering if they use solens bypassed with hovlands or what. Thanks for the report.

[JackD201]

Great to hear that you're happy with the mods FP! The Hovland caps are very good but there really is something about the see through clarity and top end sweetness of V-caps that can be addicting. I believe they contribute greatly to the 5SEs and 5 Annies as these were the inspiration for my having all my 9's tweets fully V'd.

Expect a roller coaster ride for the first hundred hours or so where at times they can get a bit strident. After that though the improvements will be gradual. At the 250hr mark you should be 95% or more of the way.

[fplanner2000]

Thanks Jack.  I'm thinking that since we added to, not replaced, it should augment what I already had.  I'm getting more air, low level detail and musicality so far in the mids and highs.  Hard to quantify, since it does seem to be changing a bit, but only between the ranges of very very good to very, very, very good and back.  From what everyone is saying, it appears that the best is yet to come - can't wait!!

[fplanner2000]

For those of you that are interested in break-in times, I got the following from Chris Ven Haus, the V-cap vendor:

[Chris VenHaus replied:] The biggest improvements will be at the frequency extremes (HF and LF), as well as soundstaging. You’ll need at least 60-100 hours for initial phase, and that should get you about 65-70% there. After 200-300 hours you’ll be about 90% there, and the last 100-200 hours will be a small incremental improvements, but should take the whole thing “over the top”.

I'm at about 30 hours and am already astonished.... wow. Like new speakers - all the resolution and imaging you could want, and I know we're just getting started!!

[mikel51]

wonder what a similar upgrade would do for VR5 anniversaries?

[es347]

This is one owner who won't be able to answer that one. 

[JackD201]

wonder what a similar upgrade would do for VR5 anniversaries?

Absolutely nothing. Annies and 5 SEs come with V-caps from the get go. 

[es347]

V-caps....W-caps...whatever is inside these things sounds pretty good. 

[Bill Baker]

 I would love to hear either of the speakers mentioned above with the V-Cap upgrade (even without the upgrades for that matter). I have used these caps in countless speakers and components so nobody has to sell me on these.

 I would think the only upgrade from there would be the AN Silver or Dueland.

 I will shortly be trying out some Duelands as I have heard nothing but good about them.

 Did you upgrade any of the resistors? Just curious.

 In regard to leaving tube gear on 24/7, I am not a fan of this. Besides the time it waste on the tubes (and electric bill), I don't like putting tranformers through this. They generate heat the longer they are on and in my opinion, is not good for them. At least not for weeks on end.

[Sonny]

I have a DIY set of speakers and originally had Solens all around.  I then replaced the Solens with Sonic Craft Generation 1 for the Mid/Tweeters and they sounded "better" I thought.  More transparent, extension and faster...though a little leaner, but that could be because the Solens are "colored"?  Anyways, been thinking of upgrading the remaining Solens and perhaps the Sonic Craft to something more exotic.  Thinking about Jantzen Superior Z Caps, but things get expensive...for the Mundorf Silver/Oil or V-Caps, I would be spending above $700 or even more!

Is it worth it????

Also, I have bypassed all the caps with .01uF caps and that's a good thing.
Tuan

[Bill Baker]

Hello Tuan,
 In my opinion, the Janzen would probly not provide you with a noticable difference. I would leave in the caps you currently have in these and use something along the line of the Silver/Oil for the bypass of about .10uF. (unless these are what you bypasses are now).

 If you notice a difference with the Silver/Oil bypasses, you can consider trying them as the main capacitor in the high pass filter.

[Sonny]

Thanks Bill, I am bypassing the, and you're right, I think they are the .1uF caps...
However, buying .1uF silver/oil caps, is still a bit on my budget...it being about $35 each...wish I can get them at dealer costs.... 

[arthurs]

Bill, do keep us posted on what you find with the Duelunds, as we've talked before I am quite curious about these as well...

[es347]

Douglesc -
We didn't take any caps out of the 7's, we just added V-caps as bypass caps.  They were placed in parallel with the existing caps.
I really didn't pay any attention to the brand(s) of the existing caps, since it didn't seem relevant to what we were doing.

Hey FP,

I am a retired EE and more specifically a retired power EE.  As such I haven't played in the electronics sandbox for many decades but I do remember certain things about circuit theory.  One of the things I do remember: when you parallel devices you change the impedance.  If someone, Albert in this case, has designed a world-class crossover and someone goes in and parallels capacitors it sure seems like you would be messing with a capacitance value that would compromise the crossover design.  Again, I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree so someone please enlighten me.  Albert....comments?

[fplanner2000]

Gavin-
Albert and I discussed this in the very beginning, because after all, he designed the crossovers.  By using the values he specified (usually less than 10% of what was bypassed), he showed me mathematically that the crossover design was very minimally impacted, if at all.  Again, this is HIS upgrade, with the exception of an extra cap on the mids as Chris VH advised.

In other words, "world class" just got better!

I would also think that the original caps with V-cap bypass, as I have done. might sound better than just V-Caps, as there would be even more openness, etc. due to more caps.  I'm not an engineer, but this sort of makes sense to me.

[Bill Baker]

ES347
 You are absolutely correct in that you are altering the impedance. In most cases the change is not enough to negatively effect the circuit but there are ways to compensate for this, if necessary, by simply taking some measurements. I won't go into that here as it could cause some confusion.

 Most speaker manufacturers, believe it or not, do not take this into consideration. They simply take the capacitance value and go with it. Your better manufacturers will take into account the DCR of the components used as the same holds true for the inductors in the circuit.

Going into audio components, you also have to take all this into account when designing power supplies. The choice between electrolytic or polypropylene capacitors requires taking into account the DCR of the caps. This is why so many people have voltage problems when replacing the lytic caps in their power supply with polys and vice versa.

 This is why simply "changing" components does not always yield the best results. It will sound different but may not be operating properly.

 It is what separates the good designers/modifiers from the best.

[es347]

Paralleling caps sounds very arbitrary to me and is something I wouldn't do.  If AVS says it's ok then knock yourself out but I do know from what limited experience I've had with filter design, that the capacitance value is not an arbitrary number.