Stereophile Review 7B SST-2

James Tanner · « **on:** 28 Jan 2010, 01:09 pm »

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/bryston_7b_sstsup2sup_monoblock_power_amplifier/

95Dyna · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 02:12 pm »

James,

Either you want to test your skills as a moderator or you are throwing this out as a test to us to see how much restraint we can exercise. I'll place my bet on the latter and refrain from comment except to say my 7Bs2 have been a stellar addition to my musical enjoyment.

Bill

James Tanner · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 02:57 pm »

Yes I promised as facilitator I would allow differing opinions to be expressed as long as it was done in a polite and respectful way. This is out there now as a Stereophile Website Post and customers have emailed me about it.

I think most people are intelligent enough to realize this is one mans opinion and even though I disagree with his opinion - that's just my opinion.

james

JackD201 · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 28 Jan 2010, 02:57 pm

Yes I promised as facilitator I would allow differing opinions to be expressed as long as it was done in a polite and respectful way. This is out there now as a Stereophile Website Post and customers have emailed me about it.

I think most people are intelligent enough to realize this is one mans opinion and even though I disagree with his opinion - that's just my opinion.

james

Posting the link just shows how much class you and your company have James. Yes it is just one man's opinion indeed. Happy Bryston owners around the world need no validation except their own. Good on you. Keep it up!

95Dyna · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 07:54 pm »

Back to the original topic. The core of discontent among Bryston owners over the 7B review was its unfavorable comparison to one of its direct competitors in the marketplace, the Parasound Halo JC1. In the interest of objectivity if anyone would like to compare how the two amps measure out below is the link to the measurements page of Michael Fremer's 2003 review of the JC 1. I don't know how the 7's measurements stack up as I haven't compared the two carefully. There is no getting around the fact the JC1 is an excellent amp. I actually had it on my short list with the 7 and went the Bryston way for several reasons.

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/774/index6.html

James Tanner · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 08:03 pm »

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/bryston_7b_sstsup2sup_monoblock_power_amplifier/index7.html

woodsyi · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 08:09 pm »

I prefer red wine over white when matching with food is not a consideration. My wife prefers white in general. Now, I only keep good wines in my house. Our different preferences for one over the other do not change the fact that both are good wines.

He prefers one and used words to highlight his liking. I bet you another reviewer who prefers 7B SST-2 can couch his liking in similar fashion.

All is good. Don't be so defensive. Bryston is good.

James Tanner · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 08:30 pm »

I really enjoyed this comment from Stereophile on the measurements of the 7B SST-2's

"Finally, when tested at close to clipping into 4 ohms with the demanding combination of 19 and 20kHz tones, the Bryston's output spectrum (fig. was more like that of a preamplifier, with all intermodulation products at or below –100dB (0.001%)."

John Atkinson
Stereophle

James Tanner · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 08:53 pm »

From Engineering:

Hi James;

In the measurements which can be compared directly, 19 + 20KHz 1:1 IMD, the 7B is roughly 17dB lower in distortion. That's roughly a factor of 7X lower.

Although the 7B's 50Hz IMD is not shown, it would measure about -100dB, compared to the Parasound's spectrum showing about -60dB. That would be a 40dB difference, or roughly a factor of 100X, (!), in favor of the Bryston.

cwr

95Dyna · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 09:22 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 28 Jan 2010, 08:09 pm

I prefer red wine over white when matching with food is not a consideration. My wife prefers white in general. Now, I only keep good wines in my house. Our different preferences for one over the other do not change the fact that both are good wines.

He prefers one and used words to highlight his liking. I bet you another reviewer who prefers 7B SST-2 can couch his liking in similar fashion.

All is good. Don't be so defensive. Bryston is good.

Hi woodsyi,

I don't know if you are addressing me or not since you didn't use the quote feature but my post is anything but defensive. It's actually encouraging us to look at the review objectively as opposed to viscerally with our Bryston biases and to have an in formed intelligent discussion this time as opposed to the mudslinging debacle that took place on the original discussion. The proof is in the pudding and the pudding in this case are the measurements. My intent in making this suggestion was in hopes that somebody with an engineering level of understanding (not me) would look at both and give us an objective interpretation. None other than Chris himself has chimed in. Thanks Chris.

95Dyna · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 09:29 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 28 Jan 2010, 08:30 pm

I really enjoyed this comment from Stereophile on the measurements of the 7B SST-2's

"Finally, when tested at close to clipping into 4 ohms with the demanding combination of 19 and 20kHz tones, the Bryston's output spectrum (fig. was more like that of a preamplifier, with all intermodulation products at or below –100dB (0.001%)."

John Atkinson
Stereophle

Yeah James, that one jumped off the page at me too.

woodsyi · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 09:50 pm »

Quote from: 95Dyna on 28 Jan 2010, 09:22 pm

Hi woodsyi,

I don't know if you are addressing me or not since you didn't use the quote feature but my post is anything but defensive. It's actually encouraging us to look at the review objectively as opposed to viscerally with our Bryston biases and to have an in formed intelligent discussion this time as opposed to the mudslinging debacle that took place on the original discussion. The proof is in the pudding and the pudding in this case are the measurements. My intent in making this suggestion was in hopes that somebody with an engineering level of understanding (not me) would look at both and give us an objective interpretation. None other than Chris himself has chimed in. Thanks Chris.

You have been good. I am just observing that people and reviewers can have different opinions and preferences without trashing the gear under review. Berating the whole industry for printing a different preference seems silly to me. James and you are doing a good job of highlighting why you prefer Bryston.

dan_lo · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 11:05 pm »

I have 4 words to say about this review:

Look at the measurements.

perose · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Jan 2010, 11:47 pm »

I’ve always been a little curious about the reviews of certain amps within the same family. For example, I understood that the 14B was actually 2 - 7Bs in one chassis but, some of the review of earlier SSTs read like they were completely different animals.

Audio reviewing is all pretty subjective and one either accepts what the reviewer reports or doesn’t, after all people do hear things differently. I’ve purchased gear based on Mr. Fremer’s recommendations and have been very pleased with the results. I believe that he tries to be objective and in this case, the synergy of the components wasn’t to his liking. To his credit he did report that the power transformers improved the 7B-SST2.

For the record, I still enjoy my 7B-STs even though, by some accounts, they wouldn’t have been the first choice of certain audio reviewers.

PS: I liked the Bryston response in the Manufactures’ Comment section of the issue.

Mad Mr H · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 01:01 am »

When I review starts with

"Maybe they do privately cross-dress and throw debauched bashes and hang from chandeliers"

I want to know WHY? I have not had my invite?

Second page seems to be about what he music collection contains - Nothing to do with the amps and I got bored but kept reading to have an opinion.

Useful to know about the transformer change - EXCELLENT replacement service.

I have to say that the lack of "forward" soundstage comes as a massive surprise to me, and anyone that has heard my systems both Tannoy and PMC 2ch and 5.1 all Bryston amplifiers NEVER mentioned no foward soundstage and often leant forward to see the extent of the forward sound stage.

All that to one side he des love that "titan" amp.....

Wierd when you check the actual specs for that amp by the mag he writes for...

Check this out http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/musical_fidelity_titan_power_amplifier/index5.html

Against this for the 7B SST2
http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/bryston_7b_sstsup2sup_monoblock_power_amplifier/index.html

I prefer the 7B specs,

I would buy tomorrow the sst2 series, just going to work so I can have some.........

SHV · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 01:56 am »

Do A-V Mags have test equipment that is comparable to what a major manufacturer would have?

Steve

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 03:03 am »

I haven't heard any of the SST-2 Bryston amps, or anything other than the 4B - Thx rated amp that I borrowed for my amp shootout and the 4B-ST that I bought in October of 2001. I'd have to drive to Nashville or Atlanta to see and listen to real audio equipment.

For my amp shootout, I used the Parasound PH850 pre-amp and that's that pre-amp that I use for my 4B-ST. The other amp that I auditioned was the Parasounds HCA-1500A. It was rated at 205 w/ch into 8 ohm's while the 4B-ST was rated at 250 w/ch.

I haven't heard the Parasound Halo amp, but when I listened to the HCA-1500A, I just didn't care for the sound of the Parasound amp.

My impression was that the upper end was rolled off and for my ears, it just wasn't realistic. It did sound better than my Japanese Integrated amp that I was replacing, but it wasn't even in the same ballpark as the Bryston. Music played on the Bryston sounds like live music, not a recording.

The Bryston comes closest to giving me that on stage sound that I'm looking for while the Parasound didn't.

As far as the reviewer goes, I'm fine with people that tweak their amps/pre-amps/cables/speakers. I'm fine with the guys that only listen to tubes.

The Bryston does what I want and I respect the Stereophile reviewer's opinion, even if I may not agree with it.

If I was in the market for a new amp, would the reviewer's article steer me away from the Bryston amp? No way. I'd make my own decision based on my music and my ears.

HsvHeelFan

95Dyna · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 03:44 am »

Quote from: HsvHeelFan on 29 Jan 2010, 03:03 am

I haven't heard any of the SST-2 Bryston amps, or anything other than the 4B - Thx rated amp that I borrowed for my amp shootout and the 4B-ST that I bought in October of 2001. I'd have to drive to Nashville or Atlanta to see and listen to real audio equipment.

For my amp shootout, I used the Parasound PH850 pre-amp and that's that pre-amp that I use for my 4B-ST. The other amp that I auditioned was the Parasounds HCA-1500A. It was rated at 205 w/ch into 8 ohm's while the 4B-ST was rated at 250 w/ch.

I haven't heard the Parasound Halo amp, but when I listened to the HCA-1500A, I just didn't care for the sound of the Parasound amp.

My impression was that the upper end was rolled off and for my ears, it just wasn't realistic. It did sound better than my Japanese Integrated amp that I was replacing, but it wasn't even in the same ballpark as the Bryston. Music played on the Bryston sounds like live music, not a recording.

The Bryston comes closest to giving me that on stage sound that I'm looking for while the Parasound didn't.

As far as the reviewer goes, I'm fine with people that tweak their amps/pre-amps/cables/speakers. I'm fine with the guys that only listen to tubes.

The Bryston does what I want and I respect the Stereophile reviewer's opinion, even if I may not agree with it.

If I was in the market for a new amp, would the reviewer's article steer me away from the Bryston amp? No way. I'd make my own decision based on my music and my ears.

HsvHeelFan

And I'm going to agree with you for the second time today. I do have a pair of 7B SST2's and had the JC1 on my short list as I mentioned earlier. Here are the reasons I went with the 7B's:

-high frequency performance of the JC1 is not as smooth and delicate as the 7B's
-JC1 in the 25 watt bias mode runs too hot to touch at idle and its 20" depth not including rear handles presented placement problems for me.
-The JC1 is made in China which is a problem for me. The evidence is overwhelming that manufacurer specified parts will be substituted for cheaper parts when they can get away with it.
-Parasound customer service is good but not on the level of Bryston and the warranty is only five years compared to the Bryston 20 years.
-The 7 sounded better to me overall. Imaging was a bit more focused on the JC1 but the soundstage was larger with the 7. Both are quiet and very neutral.

I agree that Michael Fremer is entitled to his opinion and unlike most of us on this forum he has years of training and experience evaluating audio equipment performance. We have to give him credit for that. All of this underscores the necessity of listening for yourself. If you compare the measurements in the Stereophile reviews of these two amps you'll see some that favor the JC1 and some that favor the 7. The Fremer reiview states that the 7 shows "textbook measured performance". Bottom line is measurements and specs are not going to help you to choose one of these amps over the other. What they do tell us is that on paper the two are on pretty equal footing. So listen to them in a variable controlled audition to discover which one is best for you. Remember, the comparison between the two was at the heart of the review. The comparison to the MF Titan is irrelevant due to the 450% price delta.

Moon Doggy · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 04:34 am »

Just read Fremer's review. While I have not heard the Titan amps, the Musical Fidelity amps I have heard were very forward sounding and sharp. Not to my liking, in fact I got a headache within minutes. Assuming this is a characteristic quality through out the line ( a big assumption I know) but his review tends to confirm that this is a characteristic of the Titan as well. If Michael Fremer prefers this kind of sound over a more neutral presentation then he is right to state his preference. There are many who agree with his preferences and like Musical Fidelity products.

He thinks forward sounding amps like Musical Fidelity are more accurate than Bryston.

I do not.

Laundrew · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 04:56 am »

Quote from: 95Dyna on 29 Jan 2010, 03:44 am

The comparison to the MF Titan is irrelevant due to the 450% price delta.

Musical Fidelity was one of the first audio components that I auditioned.

I wonder how the comparison would go between the $17K 28Bs and the $30K Titans - this would prove to be very, very interesting.

What did they use to say in ancient Rome... Bring forth your champion?

Be well...