HDMI

Charles Calkins · « **on:** 4 Jan 2010, 04:31 pm »

I'm seeing that a lot of the surround sound receivers have HDMI inputs. I'm wondering if using HDMI out from a DVD player to the receiver makes better sound than just the digital audio out to receiver.

Cheers
Charlie

Toka · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Jan 2010, 04:38 pm »

Well if you want the "HD" lossless audio track, you'll need HDMI (or use the analog outs on the player if it can decode them). SPDIF can't do them.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Jan 2010, 04:53 pm »

Toka:
I haven't the foggiest idea what you mean.
HELP!!!!

Cheers
Charlie

bpape · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Jan 2010, 05:01 pm »

If you want something other than standard Dolby Digital surround or standard Redbook CD 16 bit 44.1kHz audio, you have to use the HDMI as those are 'protected' streams and the HDMI/HDCP may be required for passage and decoding.

Bryan

ted_b · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Jan 2010, 05:12 pm »

Charlie,
HDMi is a combination hidef video and hidef audio digital cabling system. It carries all video and any audio needed. For BluRay, HDMi is the only digital cable (i.e not coax or optical) that will pass the hidef codecs like TureHD, DTS HD Master Audio or lossless 24/192 PCM). These hidef audio signals can be passed via HDMi in two ways: Bistream (meaning send uncoded and let receiver do the decoding work) or LPCm (meaning these codecs were decoded by the player and sent to the receiver as lossless PCM). In addition to BlURay, HDMi will also carry SACD's native hirez DSD format (assuming your receiver/processor has DSD decoding) and DVD-Audio' hirez PCM. The only other way to get these audio signals (BlURay and SACD hirez) is to decode them in the player and send them via RCA analog outs. The question becomes: which device (player or receiver) has better DACS, analog stages and bass management features to make better music. Cheap DVD players will lose every time, but players from the inexpensive Oppo BDP-83 and its SE upgrade..to expensive Pioneer BD-12's..will likely sound better via analog than any but the top HDMI-based processors, assuming you can live with the player's typically less robust bass management features.. It's a tradeoff situation; your ears will be the judge. The gotcha is this: even if you go analog, the receiver needs to take that analog signal and be nice to it. Many receivers/processors are NOT nice to analog signals in that they redigtize them. That's a no/no and makes your decision easy...go HDMI.

One other tradeoff...cables. One HDMI cable vs 2-10 analog cables (plus you'll still have HDMI cable cuz you'll use it for video anyway). Me...I use HDMI for my video and my movie (BluRay) soundtracks...but use analog for hirez music (2 channel and multichannel) all via my Oppo 83 SE (Special Edition).

ted_b · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Jan 2010, 05:13 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 4 Jan 2010, 05:01 pm

If you want something other than standard Dolby Digital surround or standard Redbook CD 16 bit 44.1kHz audio, you have to use the HDMI as those are 'protected' streams and the HDMI/HDCP may be required for passage and decoding.

Bryan

or, as stated above, let the player do it and come out analog.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 04:29 pm »

Thanks for the info. I've been reading several articles about the new audio formats. I have a blu-ray player. I have "The Aviator" DVD. I bought the blu-ray version. It only has Dolby digital audio. I wonder if they make blu-ray discs with and without the newest audio format.

Anyhow I discovered that my Onkyo receiver has two HDMI in and one out. I never gave it a look before because I had nothing with HDMI. Got cables on the way so I'll be hooking them up soon.

AAAHHHHH!!!!!
This audio crap is enough to drive anybody CRAZY!!!!!

Cheers
Charlie

ted_b · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 04:38 pm »

Charles...yeah, it can be confusing. Two issues:
1) Early Blu-Ray titles aren't always loaded with the newer high resolution audio soundtracks (TrueHD and DTS HD MA). They usually have higher def than DVD though (called Dolby Digital Plus; barely discernible from non-plus, however)
2) Just because an AVR receiver or processor has HDMI does NOT mean that it has TrueHD or DTS HD MA decoders with it. Likely you'll need to decode in the player and set the player's HDMI menu for "LPCM" NOT "bistream".

To get to the crux, tell us your receiver and player models.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 05:15 pm »

I have an Onkyo TX-SR674. In the manual it tells how to set the (Video 3 I use for the blu-ray or DVD player)input to HDMI. I'm reading that the blu-ray has settings for Bitstream. PCM regarding HDMI AV out. Digital audio is either Bitstream or PCM on or off. I see where there is a setting for the new audio formats in the player manual. I'll have set that up after I get the HDMI cables.

Cheers
Charlie

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 05:16 pm »

The blu-ray player is a Panasonic DMP-BD60

ted_b · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 05:27 pm »

OK, so Charles, this is where you're at. Your player decodes everything, which is good, cuz your receiver cannot decode everything. The Onkyo doesn't decode the BluRay codecs (TrueHD and DTS HD MA). So set your Panny BluRay player's HDMI for PCM, not bitstream. That way already-decoded PCM (assuming you pick TrueHD or DTS HD MA, or lossless PCM in the specific movie's menu) will travel across HDMI (HDMI only, not coax or toslink) and be handled by the Onkyo as good ole 5.1 or 7.1 PCM. The Onkyo should even be able to take the decoded 5.1 PCM and add Dolby PLIIx to it (called post-processing) ..to produce a very legitimate 7.1 mix (assuming you have a 7.1 setup). Enjoy!

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 05:37 pm »

OKIEDOKIE.
Thanks again for the info. I'm finding all your suggestions in the manuals. If I screw things up(AGAIN)I'll get back to you for more HELP!!!!

Cheers
Charlie

zybar · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 05:56 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 7 Jan 2010, 05:27 pm

OK, so Charles, this is where you're at. Your player decodes everything, which is good, cuz your receiver cannot decode everything. The Onkyo doesn't decode the BluRay codecs (TrueHD and DTS HD MA). So set your Panny BluRay player's HDMI for PCM, not bitstream. That way already-decoded PCM (assuming you pick TrueHD or DTS HD MA, or lossless PCM in the specific movie's menu) will travel across HDMI (HDMI only, not coax or toslink) and be handled by the Onkyo as good ole 5.1 or 7.1 PCM. The Onkyo should even be able to take the decoded 5.1 PCM and add Dolby PLIIx to it (called post-processing) ..to produce a very legitimate 7.1 mix (assuming you have a 7.1 setup). Enjoy!

One other thing...depending on your how the DMP-60 works, you might have the ability to set the rate limit for PCM or LPCM. If you do, set it to the highest possible value that works for your system. You don't want it say set at 48kHz when you can handle 96kHz.

George

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 06:35 pm »

George:
The player doesn't mention LPCM. It does say to turn PCM down conversion off. Then signals are output as 96kHz. The receiver has 24bit/192kHz DAC. That gonna work??

Cheers
Charlie

ted_b · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 06:40 pm »

Don't change anything audio in the player, Charles, except what's on page 8 at the bottom (bitstream to PCM, and BD-Video secondary audio to off). Leave all else at default. The down conversion George mentions needs to remain off (default).

zybar · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 06:48 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins on 7 Jan 2010, 06:35 pm

George:
The player doesn't mention LPCM. It does say to turn PCM down conversion off. Then signals are output as 96kHz. The receiver has 24bit/192kHz DAC. That gonna work??

Cheers
Charlie

That's good.

George

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 06:48 pm »

OKIEDOKIE!!!

Sure as Hell hope I don't lose all this info. What a bummer that would be.

Cheers charlie

zybar · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 06:50 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins on 7 Jan 2010, 06:48 pm

OKIEDOKIE!!!

Sure as Hell hope I don't lose all this info. What a bummer that would be.

Cheers charlie

Just bookmark the page.

George

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 07:11 pm »

OKIEDOKIE!!!!!

Cheers
Charlie

ted_b · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 07:17 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins on 7 Jan 2010, 06:48 pm

OKIEDOKIE!!!

Sure as Hell hope I don't lose all this info. What a bummer that would be.

Cheers charlie

Charles,
the info can be boiled down to this:
* plug in HDMI from player to receiver
* set player for PCM, and BD-Video secondary audio to off
* enjoy the movie soundtracks at their highest resolution (usually the first pick of any movie audio menu)