[Browntrout]

Appologies for my bad attitude

[opnly bafld]

Opinions on what sounds good are different.
In a car stereo sq competition you would score very badly with that setup.

I prefer bringing the rear speakers to just where I can hear them and then fading it back to the front a little.
If you have an external 4/ch amp I recommend wiring the rear speakers in series and bridging the rear channels to mono.
With these settings you will get a nice front stage with a little ambient like sound from the rear.

Lin

[Browntrout]

To quote Charlie Brown....."Good grief"

[Bob in St. Louis]

I turn my rears off altogether. Sounds "cleaner" that way.

Bob

p.s. By the way, if memory serves, Lin used to be a judge in mobile sound quality competitions.

[enjoythemusic]

Hi, was a sound quality judge for IASCA for a few years... i find that for the rear you really only need a touch of 'fill' and that generally being midrange. As posted by bafld, adjust until you just barely perceive the rear. No need for tweeters and if you can get all the bass up front (door panels or ???) do it.

[opnly bafld]

if you can get all the bass up front (door panels or ???) do it.

Good point.
Spanish Harlem by Rebecca Pidgeon (The Raven -Chesky JD115) is a good track (I'm sure there are others) to check for "up front" bass.
On 98% of cars I've heard with a sub or bass producing rear speakers, the voice is in front of you and the bass player is in the back seat.

Getting a vehicle with a subwoofer in the back to sound like all the bass is coming from the front speakers is a lot like this    most of the time.

Lin

[opnly bafld]

I turn my rears off altogether. Sounds "cleaner" that way.

With some types of vehicles this works the best.
Rear speakers are really only useful when you have people in the back seat that also want to hear the music. 

Lin

PS Your memory isn't as bad as you think Bob. 

[enjoythemusic]

With some types of vehicles this works the best.

Agree, in some vehicles no rear speakers do work best.

Rear speakers are really only useful when you have people in the back seat that also want to hear the music.

What is this 'back seat' thing you refer to? In the past 15+ years no car here has had one of those (Honda Del Sol, Ferrari 308, etc) and the SCCA winning Formula 2000 race car i drove for a few years did not even have cup holders(!) yet did have a 2-way radio via IEMs.

Back.... seat.... isn't that the trunk, or the 'boot' as the Europeans call it?
(or where the engine is  )

[opnly bafld]

I'm a Honda fan, but I wouldn't have mentioned the Del Slow  ,  especially before the Magnum PI car.

I probably would have enough $ to buy my all time favorite sports car (with its engine hanging out back), if I just could have been content with that mid fi kit I had 15 years ago before the audio nervosa began.   

Lin

[Se7en]

Since this is a car audio related thread, I thought I'd share a few pics of what will be the heart of my new front stage. I will most likely not use any rear stage.

No hijack intended.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Well.....since we've slightly gone off topic and the OP isn't getting as much traffic about the topic, here's another question for you:
For SQ, would a very small vehicle like a Honda Del Sol two seater or a Chevy Suburban be better?
I've got a Yukon XL (same as a Suburban) which is shy I ask. I would think the larger cabin would help.

Bob

p.s. By the way Lin, I worked for Honda when the Del Sol was introduced. There was a version with a 5 speed that redlined at 10,000 rpm. 
You won't be blowing Vettes out of the water, but damn it sure was fun to drive.

[Browntrout]

The reason I said what I said is because the rear speakers (in the doors of most four door cars) are in the front lower of the door and the same for the front speakers. When you sit in the car your head is only slightly in front of the line between the rear speakers, so , having even fade (front to rear) produces an uneven balance between the front and the back (as the driver hears it) so setting it slightly to the rear actually gives the correct centered sound front to rear.
 This is not subjective or have anything to do with stupid soundoff competitions. I had a simple quality system and people often said that my front speakers had very good bass for their size ( as in I simply setup my sub woofer, a Diamond Audio CM10, properly) so that it was indistinguishable from the whole. I guess you have rarely achieved this feat from what you wrote openly baffled.

[opnly bafld]

Bob,

A small interior is a big plus in SPL, but with sound quality interior size really doesn't matter too much in my experience. Speaker location is one thing that can make a difference and there are other variables that I have never been able to figure out what they even are. 
I have never liked the sound of speakers in the rear doors, common in SUVs and other vehicles without a trunk.


The Del Slow replaced the beloved CRX which was a better car in every way.
My understanding is that Honda axed the CRX, even though it sold very well, because it was very low profit car for them.

Lin 

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thanks for the info Lin.

I actually wasn't thinking about having drivers in the read doors, I was thinking more of drivers in the rear deck area.
Strange line of thinking from a guy that drives a large SUV..... 

Anyway, I've found that having the rear on in mine give the bass a "tubby" sound I don't like. The fronts are 100% of the higher frequencies, while the OE sub (back by the cargo door) handles the lower stuff. The sub being a good 10' behind my head, it's impossible to turn it off with the OE sound system. I actually very much like the General Motors factory sound system in the trucks. Lord knows, I don't need my audio bug extending to my vehicle.....the room in the house is enough. 

Bob

p.s.
Not sure why they replace the Civic. You may very well be correct.
Both vehicle had their strengths and weaknesses. The Civic had that old school tank like durability factor but looked, felt and had the romance of an 80's Volvo. The Del Sol was a much more modern vehicle and more comfortable and ergonomically friendly vehicle in every way. However, anytime a vehicle manufacture pokes a hole in the roof, they open themselves up to the issue of a water leak. When the Japanese reinvented the proverbial wheel by bring a Targa to their line up I was more than skeptical. As a Honda technician at the time, I KNEW fixing water leaks was going to be a strong part of my future. I was right. The repair procedure to fix the water leaks was a 12 page ordeal. Warranty time didn't cover the actual repair time to fix their blunder....I'm still bitter at Honda for that one, I lost a lotta paycheck over that. Overall, a neat car though. They should all be shipped off to SoCal in my opinion. 

[Se7en]

1 disadvantage to small car (particularly trucks) is it is very easy to localize the subs. If you're trying to create a disappearing act (bass up front), I'll take a larger interior any day of the week.

Just my .02

[opnly bafld]

Browntrout,

I'm not sure that I am following what you are trying to say about the soundstage.
When I hear (or read) "centered" in reference to a car, I assume the soundstage is behind the drivers head, not in front at the windshield/dash.
Not what I would call "correct", but YMMV ("opinions" in my first post).

FYI regarding "stupid soundoff competitions", the goal in all of them that I have been involved with is to get the car to sound like a "live event" or what a person would hear in a well setup home system. Not a bad goal IMO.

You would be wrong to assume anything about me and my ability to make a car stereo sound good from what little information I've put in these few posts.

Lin 

   

[Browntrout]

I don't think I can explain it more clearly than I have already. Not to worry.
  "Getting a vehicle with a subwoofer in the back to sound like all the bass is coming from the front speakers is a lot like this     most of the time."
  If you write this I can assume you find getting the sound to come together properly difficult. The best sounding system I had in a car was a Nakamichi headunit, two speakers (coaxial believe it or not) high up in the doors just below the window line and a sub in a one cubic foot sealed box in the boot with three Pheonix Gold amps (20w, 20w, 180w) each with seperate power supply. Whilst others listened to mindless dance music I had Pavarotti accompanied by full orchestra sounding wonderfully natural and unforced.
  By stupid soundoff competitions I meant that it seems almost universally believed that to sound good a car must have mega watts and lots of speakers with active this and that.

[opnly bafld]

You must be referring to car SPL competitions, which I also tend to find a bit silly (although the technical exercise of  how can it be tweaked to get a few more dBs can be interesting at times).

As for the rest of your post:

To quote Charlie Brown....."Good grief"

Have a good day,
Lin 
 

[Levi]

Hey Lin,

This topic interests me.  What do you think about kick panels?  Currently, I have a 3-way 6-1/2 setup up-front.  Woofers on the door.  No subwoofer, my doors are extremely heavy and provides the bass up front. 

I agree that the rear speakers are for rear passengers only.  I want to try wiring the rear in series. 

 

[werd]

I don't think I can explain it more clearly than I have already. Not to worry.
  "Getting a vehicle with a subwoofer in the back to sound like all the bass is coming from the front speakers is a lot like this     most of the time."
  If you write this I can assume you find getting the sound to come together properly difficult. The best sounding system I had in a car was a Nakamichi headunit, two speakers (coaxial believe it or not) high up in the doors just below the window line and a sub in a one cubic foot sealed box in the boot with three Pheonix Gold amps (20w, 20w, 180w) each with seperate power supply. Whilst others listened to mindless dance music I had Pavarotti accompanied by full orchestra sounding wonderfully natural and unforced.
  By stupid soundoff competitions I meant that it seems almost universally believed that to sound good a car must have mega watts and lots of speakers with active this and that.

hello browntrout

That is absolutely false.... subs in the car are what make car audio half decent. And its because the sensation of bass can be felt with no identifying location. This is what drives hometheatre and 2/ch sub location also. The use of good power cap along with a good cabinet is paramount to what you are asking for. I also use a spike kit (which is completely unheard of) on my sub cabinet. This keeps the low freq energy moving forward to the front and not lost in the frame of the vehicle. Makes removing the cabinet a little difficult since it cant slide but its worth it. Bunches up the carpet.