[woodsyi]

http://www.amazon.com/2L-Audiophile-Reference-Recordings-Blu-ray/dp/B0025ZITT2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1260996703&sr=8-1-spell

Do you use HDMI out or 7.1 analog out?

[ted_b]

http://www.amazon.com/2L-Audiophile-Reference-Recordings-Blu-ray/dp/B0025ZITT2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1260996703&sr=8-1-spell

Do you use HDMI out or 7.1 analog out?

Yes!   


Either will do.  On my Oppo BDP83 Special Edition, I use the 5.1 analog outs into my analog-only Sony TS-P9000ES for the best music sound.  My Denon 3808 wil lhandle any HDMI (BluRay, DSD/SACD, PCM, etc) but I find that the SE's analog outs are better for things like this.  Also, the oppo's 2 channel goes to my preamp, so any 2 channel 24/192 BD stuff (Neil Young, etc) goes pure analog as well.    Your choice.  If you think the DACs and analog output stages of your player are better than your processor (via HDMI), assuming your analog signal STAYS analog (and is not redigitized when you send it to a multichannel pre/pro) then choose analog outs.

[ctviggen]

HDMI should work if your receiver/processor supports 7.1 (mine does not, but does support 7.1 channel input). 

[ctviggen]

It looks as if the Oppo BDP-83 will convert this to analog at the 192/24 rate/bit depth.

[ted_b]

It looks as if the Oppo BDP-83 will convert this to analog at the 192/24 rate/bit depth.

Yes, as I stated above.  No conversion needed; the Oppo will play the LPCM stereo track natively in 24/192.  Oppo's DTS HD MA decoder will, however,  only currently support 24/96 (unlike it's TruHD decoder) so the mch from the BluRay disc will be 24/96 in the Oppo.  The SACD disc will play with full multichannel DSD fidelity, though.

[woodsyi]

By any chance you know what Onkyo PR-SC885 does?  I am afraid I have not really done my due diligence.  I am finally updating my HT and picked up a used unit for processing to go with stock Oppo BDP-83.  I only really looked at HDMI switching capabilities.  I don't have my 2 channel integrated with HT and my HT is really just for movies and TV.  It's a middling system with vintage Polk SDA mains and Aperion center/surrounds powered by Outlaw 770. So I don't necessarily expect true audiophile quality music but I do want to feed them the best signal for HD multi-channel music.

[ted_b]

By any chance you know what Onkyo PR-SC885 does?  I am afraid I have not really done my due diligence.  I am finally updating my HT and picked up a used unit for processing to go with stock Oppo BDP-83.  I only really looked at HDMI switching capabilities.  I don't have my 2 channel integrated with HT and my HT is really just for movies and TV.  It's a middling system with vintage Polk SDS mains and Aperion center/surrounds powered by Outlaw 770. So I don't necessarily expect true audiophile quality music but I do want to feed them the best signal for HD multi-channel music.

yes, that processor was my previous one, and it's nice.  It does it all (DTS HD MA, TrueHD, SACD vis DSD or PCM).  You'll like it.

[woodsyi]

Let me ask you a tough question since you had it.  Do you think the DAC/analog output stage in Onkyo is better than the counterpart in stock non-SE Oppo BDP-83?

[ted_b]

Let me ask you a tough question since you had it.  Do you think the DAC/analog output stage in Onkyo is better than the counterpart in stock non-SE Oppo BDP-83?

No.  One of the reasons I moved it.  It's analog section (after the HDMI processing) is midfi for that stuff.  The Oppo 83 standard is better (didn't actually compare head to head, but the 83 and SE via analog are better sounding than my Denon 3808, which sounded better than the Onkyo Pro), but the question is what will the rest of your system resolve.  For only movies and tv the Onkyo processing via HDMI is way more convenient and not shabby at all.

[woodsyi]

Alright,

I will dig up 8 cables and compare them.  I can't just let it sit there if you say analog out is better. 

Anyway, I am looking forward to watching the BBC Earth/Biography Blu-ray discs on our new 55" with my 7 year old daughter.  She loves Discovery, History Channel and National Geographic programs. 

[ctviggen]

It looks as if the Oppo BDP-83 will convert this to analog at the 192/24 rate/bit depth.

Yes, as I stated above.  No conversion needed; the Oppo will play the LPCM stereo track natively in 24/192.  Oppo's DTS HD MA decoder will, however,  only currently support 24/96 (unlike it's TruHD decoder) so the mch from the BluRay disc will be 24/96 in the Oppo.  The SACD disc will play with full multichannel DSD fidelity, though.

For me, this ability to output to analog is important, as my receiver does not decode 7.1, but I have 7.1 channels. 

[ted_b]

Alright,

I will dig up 8 cables and compare them.  I can't just let it sit there if you say analog out is better. 

Anyway, I am looking forward to watching the BBC Earth/Biography Blu-ray discs on our new 55" with my 7 year old daughter.  She loves Discovery, History Channel and National Geographic programs.

Woodsyi,
If you are just going to send the 8 cables to the 885, don't bother..just go HDMI.  The analog section of the 885 is not worth it (and I don't even remember if it has a true analog-pass thru; i.e without redigitizing it).  My comments about DAC vs DAC were based on just if you could send the Oppo to a clean analog section (mch preamp). 

[strat95]

Hi ted_b

How is the analog sound out of the OPPO BDP-83SE?  Someone on another thread stated it was better than their modded Sony SCD-1 (modification including SuperClock, SuperClock power supply, Vishay resistors, Black Gate caps, and a transport mod etc...).  He also compared to a Logitech Transporter.

Here were his findings:

SACD
SCD-1 vs. BDP-83SE: Winner BDP-83SE
Standard BDP-83 vs. BDP-83SE: Winner BDP-83SE

Redbook CD
SCD-1 vs. BDP-83SE: Winner BDP-83SE
Standard BDP-83 vs. BDP-83SE: Winner BDP-83SE
Logitech Transporter vs. BDP-83SE: Winner Logitech Transporter

Could you provide any feedback please?

Thank you,

TV

[ted_b]

I hav extensive 83 vs SE reviews over on the AVS Forum thread called "Official Oppo BDP-83SE analog discussion only"

Here's a cut-n-paste of some of my comments:

I did some initial listening last night, and had an audio buddy over to help add to the sample group. To start off: my testing is not double-blind at all! I know which player is playing and understand the subconscious biases this represents. I have no real big dog in this fight in that I have both players with a 30 day return and simply want to keep the one which is most musical in my setup. I'm keeping one, cuz the other aspects of the Oppo 83 line are too overwhelming (great video, fine HDMI-based multichannel music and movie soundtrack bitstreaming, etc). Either one will relegate my universal player and current BD players to a second or third system.

OK, so the setup I used for both players was to insure as similar a signal path as possible. The SE was placed on top of the standard 83 (aka "83") and both used the same fine 3rd party power cords, Black Sand Violet Z1's. The rack is one of my Sistrum Sp-2's. After making sure my preamp for this setup, Wyred4Sound STP SE, was calibrated for a slight (+1 on its numerical volume display) difference in gain (using test tone disc) I simply swapped the analog 2 channel outputs. Cables used are the wonderful Stealth Nanofiber RCA's, and the time it took to swap was only hindered by the fact that these cables use barrel locking RCA's that need to be cinched and uncinched as they are swapped. My system is available for view over on Audio Circle, but my amps are Spectron Musician III Mark 2 monoblocks (3k+ watts/ch into 4 ohms) and driving a pair of SP Tech Revelation MR1's with custom external Mundorf crossover network boxes. Enough about that...

This will be part one, in that I believe the SE's aren't broken in fully enough to be fair, and mainly because I haven't spent enough time documenting my impressions. This is a pre-critical listening "first listen".

We started off with 2 channel DSD SACD (as opposed to PCM downconverted SACD). This will be the major analog use for my Oppo decision (all other 2 channel hirez or redbook listening is done via Mac music server and Weiss DAC2). We used SACD's from Jimmy Cobb (Chesky), Beck's Sea Change, Cowboy Junkies MFSL verison of Whites Off Earth Now and an MFSL Patrica Barber (Companion). Special care was taken to make sure the player (default is mch) was playing the 2 ch "layer" and not a downmixed mch. Duh!

Well, part one of part one was quite surprising. In every situation the SE showed a slight LF extension over the 83, and a slight improvement in microdetail, but that's about it. The differences heard (I hate quantifying but call it 2-5%) are less than those with cable, power cord or, of course, most equipment changes. Hmmm....this lead me intially to think that I need to give the SE more time, and I will. The biggest improvement is microdetail. the door slamming in the background on barber's live rendition of Let It Rain, the growl in Michael Timmon's guitar work about the middle of State Trooper, relegated to the background, but there. It's very subtle so far, folks.

Then we decided to give some 2 channel DVD-Audio discs a try. We had time for 2..Neil Young 's 24/176 On The Beach and Cannonball Adderly's 24/192 Somethin' Else. So here we go again......put on Love For Sale on the 83 and listen to the nice solos from Miles and Mr Adderly. Ok, very nice indeed. Put on the SE.....WTF! Miles is now in our room, wearing a big gold ring on his right pinkie (just kidding)...the difference is quite substantial, at least based on this evening's disappointed first phase. maybe we're over-reacting, so we test a few more cuts...same thing. A veil has been lifted; the noise floor is dropped and everything comes out of a blacker background, exposing even better that microdetail we thought we heard the Sabre32's extracting earlier. Oh, and LF extension and control is better too, not just more tubby bass.

On goes the NY disc. Same veil, same deal, gone. The organ on "See The Sky.." is much more, er, organic (sorry), richer and more real sounding. Neil's voice has a bit more body, more definition, and the acoustic guitar work (like on "Motion Pictures") captures the essential body harmonics much better. Hmmmm.....wtf.

Ok, so this is all I got so far. Maybe the Sabre32 DACs are better at PCM decoding than DSD; maybe both Sabre and Cirrus are similar DSD machines; maybe the DSD processing needs more time...dunno.

Next step: listen again tonight with 24 more hrs of repeat play on the SE. Then also choose PCM processing for the SACD's (Kal and I liked the PCM sound from the 980 better than DSD anyway, but that apples and oranges, at best) just to hear the diff.

Final step: later this week or weekend I'll test the 5.1 analog outs with some multichannel discs and my good ole Sony TAP9000ES analog surround pre..just to report back on how well the 9006 chips do. It won't be my normal mch playback since I now choose to use HDMI and my Denon 3808 DSD-capable processor, but might as well test it while I can.

(a few days later)

So I resumed my SE/83 comparison tonight. The SE now has 24 additional hours of repeat play (mostly DSD). The result is that lasty night's 2-5% 83-to-SE DSD improvement became a bit larger of a gap, maybe a few more percent, nothing major or noticeable without significant a/b'ing. But now, the cumulative improvements make it easier to single out the improved aspects of the SEs DSD sound: better control of LF, leading edge transients (i.e attack coming out of the darkness) are better defined and yet less brittle or harsh. For example, the incredible recording of a piano in the Mirror Canon SACD sounds more like it is in the room, with a certain crack or bite to the key strokes, not just musical notes. Also, the air around each set of notes is more like real air, not just recorded fade outs. In the incredibly dynamic Whites Off Earth Now (Cowboy Junkies 1986 album recorded with a single Ambisonic microphone) the air just sizzles like Marshall amps sitting in the room. The intended hyper-real sound is truly hyper-real with the SE in DSD mode.

So what happens when you switch to DSD->PCM mode? Well, in the 83 it's a drop off that takes the music back several (albeit small) steps. Still sounds good, but not "wow, and this costs less than $1K" good. The transients and harmonics, the air, all flattened and warmed over. In some bright systems it's likely quite fine, but doing an a/b (and c/d in this example) with what we just heard was brutally insufficient.

We moved to the SE, went in and changed the setup menu to SACD mode PCM and tried again. Hmmmm, not much of a drop off at all, maybe slightly rounded off, sounding more like a couple percent warmer and rolled off than the 83's own wonderful DSD, maybe even the same (too much of a hassle to change the 83 back to DSD...I wish there was a remote code that would do this...anybody?). But suffice it to say that the DSD -to-PCM conversion in the SE is something akin to a slight cable change, nothing that I couldn't live with if I hadn't heard native DSD. Makes sense, cuz I believe the Sabre32 DACS just LOVE PCM, it is their sweetspot, and to go from DSD to PCM (don't even know the sample rate, etc.) is a very small caveat indeed. The sizzle/liveliness remains, but not harsh or bright. The soundstage depth doesn't collapse like it does when converting in the standard 83. The microdetail remains, albeit slightly out of focus when a/b'd within 30 seconds or so. Those folks who claim SACDs and DSD give them listener fatigue due to the HF filtering might even like forced PCM better, who knows. Not me...I'm staying with each formats native strength (SACD in DSD, DVD-A and BluRay in PCM...although not like PCM is a choice for DVD-A ).

I'll report more tomorrow cuz one thing I haven't tested is 2 channel BluRay audio (I don't own Neil Young Archives but will a/b things like Divertimenti). I'm betting this PCM-based format will shine in the SE too.

This is my summary for now: the SE and the standard 83 do DSD very well, with a nod to the SE for a touch more liveliness and air. The SE clearly bests the 83 in PCM mode, whether it be DVD-Audio, (likely BluRay audio) or converted SACD. Is the $400 worth it for me?? Absolutely!

One issue worth noting: my SE unit has tended to freeze more than once. I've put it through a few too many setups, etc and a power cycle or just reinserting a disc has solved the problem each time. No such freeze ups with the 83 though. ?

[ted_b]

(a few days later)

As I mentioned earlier, prior to my getting the SE in here, I was planning on using the SE (or standard 83) as my analog 2 channel SACD player (along with all things HDMI, like mch 5.1 music and dvd and BluRay 7.1 audio and video). I never wanted to use it for analog multichannel music; the juice just wasn't worth the squeeze, in my system. or so I thought.

When I was asked to a/b the analog mch performmance I dragged out and dusted off my Sony TAP9000ES, a kludgy but very quiet neutral sounding 5.1 analog preamp (which also has the niceities of having dual 5.1 inputs and a 5.1 bypass input). It allowed me, once I disconnected from the Denon 3808, to a/b the 5.1 music performances of the 83 and SE. I reported on some of that comparison a couple nights ago. The SE sounds great in mch, and the 83 is slightly veiled and compressed relative to the SE. It's not huge, but nothing between these two players screams of anything but a subtle and consistent difference, worthy of upgrade but not night and day.

So, last night I decided to hook the outputs back up to the Denon 3808 and give HDMI a chance. I mean, I'm gonna use HDMI for 7.1 BlURay movies, etc, and the 3808 is fully DSD-capable, so why not just KISS. It would be so much easier, less spaghetti, so simple to troubleshoot, etc. It was my plan all along. I had compared the 83's HDMI multichannel music performance vs my previos universal (Denon 3910 via Denon Link) and the 83's HDMi transport performance was very good. The 3808's DSD sound was good, as was its PCM sound. both were much more alive than the 3910 via Denon Link (or HDMI for that matter). So, back the 6 cables went, connected to the 3808 preouts.

I used 2 SACD DSD discs that, on Friday night, had floored me via the SE multichannel outs. One was Cookie Marenco's wonderful label's sampler. She is a multi-Grammy-nominated engineer and producer who now has a label called Blue Coast Records. The SACD sampler, which I first received from her at the 2007 RMAF (she and I spent a half hour chatting and I was enthralled by her knowledge, energy and down-to-earth nature) is called Blue Coast Connection. She uses a recording technique called E.S.E. that puts the performers (all acoustic in this sampler) in your music room space, rather than a whirlwind of surround techniques. VERY nice. Anyway, all the songs are great, but one that especially took me by surprise (after hearing it many times before) Friday night was track 2, Slow Day, by Jane Selkye. The other SACD was one of my all-time surround faves, Peter Gabriel's UP. The tracks I especially wanted to a/b were tracks 4-5 (No Way Out and I Grieve).

Well, I played each of the three cuts via the SE and analog (Sony) setup first, so i could remeber the sound. I tried to switch the wiring quickly, but haste makes waste and took about 3-4 minutes too long, IMO. Anyway, once everything was re-claibrated and tweaked I played Slow Day. Wow. Her guitar intro was nice, but it wasn't real anymore. The wetness of the strings, the tonality, the timbre (sorry for all the cliches) were just a bit digitized in my estimation. Now i realize that I could be pysching myself out on this (nothing near blind test) but I very much wanted HDMi to perform well; it wins all ties and, fankly, close calls. it wasn't close. it wasn't even SE vs 83 close. The soundstage lost its haunting ambiance (no, I wasn't smoking on Friday! ), it's smoky jazz feel. Ok maybe I was being too harsh.

On went PG. If any of you know PG's stuff, it has so many spatial cues and micro-detail and frickin electronic bass slam (thank you Tony Levin, you're my hero) when you least expect. Well, on Friday's analog mch journey these two songs (No Way Out, I Grieve) made sense; the textures and subterranean lf extensions, and surround tricks..they all made sense cuz the songs sounded so real and so musical. On Saturday night, via HDMI, they fell back into "cool demo material" that sounds good, mainly cuz I'm so familiar with the music, but without all the cues, all the tones and textures. Wow! Looks like I may have to make way for the Sony TAP9000ES msueum piece to become a permanent fixture (again) in my surround section. And without getting into too much more detail, it's 5.1 byapss input function will finally work with the flexibility of the 3808. In the old days it was a PITA to integrate, so it found its way to the attic. You see I have a separate 7.1 setup (different sides and rears, internally amp'd by the Denon) for movies than I do 5.1 for music (separate speakers and external amps), and the surround A/B quick select functions of the 3808 make the Sony's bypass inputs work perfectly in unison, unlike the old days.

So, in summary, the SE analog mch output is quite a find! Yes, I still may have Dan (Modwright) sprinkle his magic dust on it, but up until now this was gonna be my SACD 2 channel analog machine; now it's much more than that. Enjoy!

[strat95]

Hi Ted,

Thank you for the copy/paste of your review.

I have the regular 83 and thinking of upgrading to the SE.  Seems like it is worthwhile.

Great review by the way.

TV

[owenmd]

Hi Ted,

I was interested in the 83 for use ONLY as a transport into the digital input of my MWT using its onboard DAC.  I figured I would benefit from a slightly better picture quality (not that its bad) via HDMI from my Denon 3930ci and get to try bluray...?

Would I be right in thinking that using digital out only on the 83, there is absolutely no benefit to getting an SE....?

Thanks for your help

Mark

[ted_b]

Hi Ted,

I was interested in the 83 for use ONLY as a transport into the digital input of my MWT using its onboard DAC.  I figured I would benefit from a slightly better picture quality (not that its bad) via HDMI from my Denon 3930ci and get to try bluray...?

Would I be right in thinking that using digital out only on the 83, there is absolutely no benefit to getting an SE....?

Thanks for your help

Mark

Correct.  The SE only improves the analog outs.

[owenmd]

Thanks Ted.... much appreciated.