The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!

highfilter · « **Reply #780 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 10:52 pm »

Quote from: newzooreview on 12 Dec 2010, 10:10 pm

This canard about the "Tranquility DAC requires a Mac Mini" needs to be put to rest once and for all.

I bought my Tranquility when I had a notebook computer as a source, and I was thrilled with it. It was clearly better than the PS Audio Link DAC III (with Cullen mods) that I was using.

The Tranquility or Tranquility SE is the foundation of a system that you can live with happily over the long term. I did try the Mac Mini after a while (months) and things went from excellent to more excellent. I'm very glad that I had a DAC that had room to grow, so to speak.

I cannot agree more, as I have PERSONAL experience on various sources and in no way MUST you use a Mac Mini. People that are looking at this DAC but won't buy it simply because they don't want to buy a Mac Mini, please, you are being misinformed by people that don't even have experience with this DAC and/or computer audio. The Mac Mini is a great source because it is a great source, not because the Tranquility was built alongside some people at Apple to get some magical audiophile experience. I've used the Mac Mini, via USB, on my Wyred4Sound DAC-2 and it was by far the best source I could find and experience. I've tried both the W4S DAC-2 and Tranquility on various PC, Mac Mini and Windows versus Mac setups and the Mac Mini / OS X wins with both. And the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 has many other connection options yet I still feel I got the best experience via USB to the Mac Mini.

Sure the W4S DAC-2 and Tranquility sounded okay on a PC setup, even great on Windows 7 via a Mac Mini, but the Mac Mini / OS X combo sounded and still sounds the best to me. I actually preferred my Squeezebox Touch via SPDIF for my W4S DAC-2 compared to a PC via USB, but the Mac Mini / Mac OS X is hands down the winner, regardless of DACs.

I'd say at the very least, if you have any concerns about the Tranquility and you haven't even heard it, give Eric a call and he'll answer any questions you have. You can also order one and hear it for yourself, as this thing transforms computer audio into actual MUSIC. And you can always return it if you are not satisfied.

The Mac Mini is simply the best computer source that most people have found at the moment. If someone new comes out in a few months, you'll be hearing people rave about that combo with the Tranquility SE. Eric himself has acknowledged that they themselves have spent large amounts in R&D trying out various sources, and they only recommend the Mac Mini because they find it to sound the best for their customers.

It's all about the music, in the end. The Mac Mini is cheap enough to be a GREAT source for computer audio and you can use it for other purposes as well if need be. Certainly prices of other transports are much much higher, so I'd suggest that you try it and see how it works out for you. If not now, you can always get one down the road, as the Tranquility sounds great on various equipment.

bhobba · « **Reply #781 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 01:34 am »

Quote from: DaveBSC on 12 Dec 2010, 03:09 pm

Sorry, but I don't buy it. The better the receiver, the LESS sensitive it should be to the quality, or lack thereof, of the source. This isn't a linestage we're talking about where utter transparency to the source is the ideal. It's actually the opposite. Re-clockers like the Pace-car work not by being transparent to the source buy by scrubbing it clean. Didn't DB basically say that Asynchronous was not used for cost reasons? There is NO other reason I can think of not to use it.

Sure async solves some of the problems - but not all. The reason DB Audio does not use it is not cost - it is the solution they chose does a better job than async. You are free to believe this or not. But harping on about it wont get you any further than what I said above. DB Audiolabs are not about to release the details of their proprietary knowledge to satisfy the idle curiosity of an armchair audiophile. Read John Darkos excellent review:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/digital-source-reviews/item/169-dblabs-tranquility-usb-dac-signature-edition

Thanks
Bill

bhobba · « **Reply #782 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 01:45 am »

Quote from: jrebman on 12 Dec 2010, 04:20 pm

Really, until youve listened to this dac with various source computers and software, and a few different cables, you're just guessing based on some faulty "common knowledge" that seems to float all over the audio forums.

Exactly. People are bringing a very limited knowledge to bear on what is a very complex subject. I pointed out to one person you cant even consider what goes down the USB cable as digital data - it is in fact an RF signal from which digital data is extracted. He said I was wrong. I pointed out some consequences of the basic Gibbs phenomena and guess what - he didn't even know what that was. That really gets to me - they basically want to say the Tranquility engineers are on the wrong track and they don't know basic signal theory.

Thanks
Bill

bhobba · « **Reply #783 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 02:11 am »

Quote from: highfilter on 12 Dec 2010, 10:52 pm

I cannot agree more, as I have PERSONAL experience on various sources and in no way MUST you use a Mac Mini.

+1 to your entire post. I too have both a Tranquility and a WFS DAC 2. I have had your exact experience. The Mac Mini is not required to get great sound - it is simply the best generally available source right now. That may be about to change. Watch out for my comparison of an optimized Mac Mini to the Auraliti.

Anyone who wants to discuss the design of the Tranquility simply needs to give Eric a ring. Obviously he won't give away proprietary secrets but he will explain what is going on at the level appropriate to your background.

Thanks
Bill

jrebman · « **Reply #784 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 02:11 am »

Thanks, HF and Bhobba,

You understand my pints exactly. Well said.

-- Jim

highfilter · « **Reply #785 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 02:41 am »

Having said that, I am curious to what power cords you guys are using with the Tranquility SE? I am using a Pangea 14SE right now and like the results - but I have limited cords to compare it to. I have a WyWires Juice power cord coming my way soon, so I'll have that to try out.

I find power cords to usually have a pretty solid impact on a component's performance, so I'm just curious if any of you have tried multiple cords out on the Tranquility SE or if you find it doesn't have much of an impact.

I also put the Mac Mini and Tranquility SE DAC back on the ÜberBUSS after a few weeks off of it, and I have to say, my system sounds so much better with the source and DAC into the ÜberBUSS. I've heard on some systems the DAC and Mac Mini are better off without being plugged into filtration units, but in my system they really shine being in the BUSS. Much more weight to instruments, more organic sounding and it has that real texture that gives life to some recordings. I also took the BUSS off of a ZeroSurge 8R15W-I and plugged it straight into the wall, and dynamics and clarity were bumped up quite a bit. Possibly due to my amp needing more direct power, but I find since I got my new speakers, I notice changes with my gear more easily.

bhobba · « **Reply #786 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 03:45 am »

Quote from: highfilter on 13 Dec 2010, 02:41 am

Having said that, I am curious to what power cords you guys are using with the Tranquility SE? I am using a Pangea 14SE right now and like the results - but I have limited cords to compare it to. I have a WyWires Juice power cord coming my way soon, so I'll have that to try out. I find power cords to usually have a pretty solid impact on a component's performance, so I'm just curious if any of you have tried multiple cords out on the Tranquility SE or if you find it doesn't have much of an impact.

I am using a QED power chord recommended by some guy I know into that sort of stuff - although right now I have both my Tranquility and WFS out on loan for others to check out. I am using my emergency DAC right now - an Audio GD Compass but have that new Burson DAC on order for it to be my new emergency DAC. I really miss the better DAC's. Anyway the power chord did make a big difference.

Interestingly I have never checked out the differences between the USB cables and will need to around to that one day. I have the signature USB cable on order from Eric and when it arrives I will be giving it a proper checkout.

My Auraliti has arrived. I got it sent to Mike Lenehan whose reference system I usually check stuff out on and he was really keen to hear it. Guess what? Neither he or his IT guy could get it working - they could not get it to find the IP address. It sounds like a really good product but those types of problems are a real pain. It hopefully will be sorted out shortly and we can do a though comparison soon. Keep a lookout for the writeup.

Thanks
Bill

DaveBSC · « **Reply #787 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 03:54 am »

"- The USB input is a cumulation of selected low jitter parts, unique low litter pathways and proprietary receiver optimizations meant to keep the cost of the dac from skyrocketing, avoiding using costly async. or other methods. "

If the designers think that their implementation sounds better than Streamlength, that's fine. That's not what I get from reading that though. How much would adding a Streamlength license and implementation really add to the cost? How much more immune to a less than "perfect" source would the Tranquility be if it had Streamlength? That's what I'd like to know. The guy who used a QB-9 with Streamlength indicated that it's much better than the Tranquility when not fed by a Mac Mini.

It may be an incredible sounding DAC. That's not what I'm arguing. I think PS and Empirical have the right idea about getting sound off of a HDD, Squeezebox, whatever, with the Network Bridge/Digital Lens and Pace-car. You should not have to obsess over tweaking the source to get it just exactly right, and you certainly shouldn't have to buy a new computer. Bit-perfect output should be enough.

bhobba · « **Reply #788 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 08:31 am »

Quote from: DaveBSC on 13 Dec 2010, 03:54 am

Bit-perfect output should be enough.

A very superficial understanding of such things often leads the inexperienced to think that but start listening to the difference in how different bit perfect players sound and that notion will quickly go out the window. Trouble is since on the surface such a notion seems so compelling even when presented with incontrovertible evidence such as participation in blind listening tests people shake their heads - it takes a while for notions like that to be displaced. I have seen this on a number of occasions. By far the most important thing is to understand what travels down the USB cable is not digital - it is RF. Once you fully grasp that then understanding how RF hash that occurs at different levels in different computers and even between different bit perfect players can make DAC's sound different then you are on you way to a much truer understanding of his stuff.

BTW I happen to know the reason the Tranquility does not use async - it is because it would require proprietary drivers and not cost. They would spend the money if it would resolve all the issues - but it doesn't - whereas what they did choose was better. I also have heard a couple of async DAC's- and even own one - the WFS - and none are as good as the Tranquility. If you believe otherwise I suggest you get a Tranquility, get an async DAC and conduct your own comparison. I have done that and the Tranquility wins.

If you want to go out and get a DAC like an overdrive and a pacecar - go ahead. I have recently been involved in the development of a new DAC and have seen the differences in doing this stuff makes to how a DAC sounds. Believe me this jitter and stuff is not where the gains are to be made - it is in the output stage and power supply. Using stuff like Duelund caps and better power supply chokes made a much bigger difference.

Thanks
Bill

DaveBSC · « **Reply #789 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 10:11 am »

Quote from: bhobba on 13 Dec 2010, 08:31 am

BTW I happen to know the reason the Tranquility does not use async - it is because it would require proprietary drivers and not cost. They would spend the money if it would resolve all the issues - but it doesn't - whereas what they did choose was better. I also have heard a couple of async DAC's- and even own one - the WFS - and none are as good as the Tranquility. If you believe otherwise I suggest you get a Tranquility, get an async DAC and conduct your own comparison. I have done that and the Tranquility wins.

If you want to go out and get a DAC like an overdrive and a pacecar - go ahead.

Sorry, but that's not true. Streamlength only requires drivers if you need to support higher than 24/96 on Windows. Since it is a NOS DAC limited to 16/44, the Tranquility with Streamlength Asynch would be plug and play, just like the ART Legato which uses Streamlength and is also limited to 16/44.

Did DB try a version of their DAC with Streamlength and then decide not to use it because they believe their system is better? If that's the case, that's fine. I would disagree, but I'll shut up about the issue. If not, I don't see how you can say that their implementation is better than Gordon's when it's so source sensitive that only ONE magic machine is good enough.

The only comparable solid-state USB DAC with Streamlength that I know of is the Ayre, and someone who did the comparison indicated that the Ayre is much better than the Tranquility without its magic source in front. I'm not interested in the W4S, and I'm not going to drop $5,000 on the Tranquility and the QB-9 to see which is better on my Win 7 machine with Foobar and WASAPI. The QB-9 isn't the world's greatest DAC anyway. I'd rather get a Wavelink HS or an Off-ramp 4, and something like an Audio-GD NFB-8.

bside123 · « **Reply #790 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 11:04 am »

Hi DaveBSC:

Just a simple question that only requires a Yes or NO answer. Have you ever listened to a dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC?

DaveBSC · « **Reply #791 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 11:21 am »

No. If they make a version with a BNC or AES input so that better USB conversion can be used, I'd certainly be willing to try that. Frankly I'd also like to see a truly balanced output given the price of the top version.

bside123 · « **Reply #792 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 11:24 am »

Quote from: DaveBSC on 13 Dec 2010, 11:21 am

No. If they.....

Enough said.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #793 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 11:36 am »

Quote from: bside123 on 13 Dec 2010, 11:24 am

Enough said.

Did DB say they basically demand that their customers get Mac Minis? Or did I make that up?

bhobba · « **Reply #794 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 12:42 pm »

Quote from: DaveBSC on 13 Dec 2010, 10:11 am

Sorry, but that's not true.

Whats not true? I am claiming that the standard USB drivers do not handle async right now? Are you claiming that is false?

Thanks
Bill

bhobba · « **Reply #795 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 12:43 pm »

Quote from: bside123 on 13 Dec 2010, 11:24 am

Enough said.

Agreed.

Thanks
Bill

bhobba · « **Reply #796 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 12:53 pm »

Quote from: DaveBSC on 13 Dec 2010, 11:36 am

Did DB say they basically demand that their customers get Mac Minis? Or did I make that up?

They did not demand that. No-one is claiming you made anything up but rather probably did not read things carefully enough or maybe out of context. Also you are falling into the trap of extrapolating a superficial understanding of this stuff beyond the limits it can reasonably be taken - but you are not the only one to do that. It is pretty obvious however you have some ingrained ideas not open to challenge like the guy who had zero idea what the basic Gibbs phenomena was yet thought he knew more than professional signal processing engineers.

Thanks
Bill

DaveBSC · « **Reply #797 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 12:55 pm »

Quote from: bhobba on 13 Dec 2010, 12:42 pm

Whats not true? I am claiming that the standard USB drivers do not handle async right now? Are you claiming that is false?

Yes, that is false. Taken straight from ART - "Works with the drivers supplied with your computer. " Their Legato is using Streamlength asynchronous mode transfer, which does NOT require custom drivers at 44.1 or 96.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #798 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 01:02 pm »

Demand, strongly encourage, highly recommend, whatever. The point is that in order to sound its best, the DB needs a Mac Mini in front of it, this comes straight from the company. Which is great if you have or want a Mac Mini. Otherwise, not so great.

Streamlength should not have this issue, so why doesn't the Tranquility use it? I still haven't gotten a good answer.

bhobba · « **Reply #799 on:** 13 Dec 2010, 01:23 pm »

Quote from: DaveBSC on 13 Dec 2010, 01:02 pm

Streamlength should not have this issue, so why doesn't the Tranquility use it? I still haven't gotten a good answer.

My understanding is licencing fees are payable to Wavelength to make use of some async stuff in the newer versions of standard drivers. Maybe they did not want to pay those fees or maybe they wanted it to be useable even with older drivers. But a number of manufacturers that use async have written their own drivers (eg WFS) so their obviously is a reason. Why not contact Eric and ask him?

But again I have to ask - why are you even worried about this technical stuff? Surely the proof of the pudding is this is one of the best sounding DAC's out there - and I have compared it to some much more expensive stuff. Just what DAC's built according to your philosophy have you compared to the Tranquility to verify your views?

Thanks
Bill