[jdbrian]

Jim

  At this time I am not a SD speaker user but I have had a set of Fostex 206's in my system in the past. They do some things very well. Unfortunately, I don't have them now to try.
  The NOS DAC DIY thing seems to be at the root of all the obsession of labelling a certain DAC with a certain sound. It is much easier to slap together a NOS DAC and have it sound decent then to do that with the ESS Sabre chip. This seems to make everybody who builds a NOS DAC kit an expert on the sound of different chips and makes them want to know what chips are used in every DAC they encounter. There are also many user reviews that muddy the waters even more when looking for a DAC.
  The Tranquility DAC's are proof that you can't judge a DAC by the converter chip alone. DBlabs has developed a product that needs to be judged solely on it's sound without prejudice about the converter chip used. I decided to do just that when I ordered the DAC and I had no problem justifying the purchase based on the sheer enjoyment that this DAC brings to my listening experience. I did this even though I had always been a person who wanted to know the technical details of the products I use. My experience has been that focusing solely on the tech stuff does not bring me the emotionally involving sound that I crave as a music lover.
  The sound I am getting with the Tranquility in my system gets me closer to the artists musical message. How it does that is a bit of a mystery. I am content to enjoy the results and not focus on the means by which they are achieved. I encourage others to consider this approach when upgrading.

Brian


   

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

A few points here.  Although a number of speakers John Darko (the Reviewer) used were SD - a number were not.  Although not mentioned in the review I know John has heard the DAC through a reference system flat to 25hz using a Mac Mini and is aware how it sounds that way.  He probably did not mention it because that listening session was not part of his formal review.

I think the pertinent point is his conclusion:
'A lack of S/PDIF inputs is the ONLY reason it doesn't score the 5 stars that its sound quality commands.'

You may think he was a bit hard removing a point for that in his final rating.  Personally though I have no problem with it because John reviews stuff as a piece of consumer equipment, and that includes ergonomics etc etc, not just sound quality.  If you have a look at other reviews you will see he has done the same for other products for a similar reason - eg have a look at the NAKSA review where he rated that as a 5 star sound but removed a point because some assembly is required.

Having had this DAC in my system for quite a while I concur with everything John said regarding sound including, on that basis, it is a 5 star DAC.

I hope people take the positives away from this review.  A criticism that has (unjustifiably IMHO) been leveled at the Tranquility is that an independent professional review has not been forthcoming.  Well now it has - and it confirmed everything people have written about this DAC gaining 5 stars on a sound quality basis.  Very few products get an accolade like that from such reviewers - they are very wary of handing these out fearing it will be devalued.  The WFS for example only got 4 stars.  The fact it got 5 stars even without a Mac Mini is a real feather in its cap IMHO.

BTW I also know the only reason a Mac Mini was not used is John did not have easy access to one.  I was going to send him one but for various reasons there is no need to go into here (and indeed I wont because it involves stuff in Johns personal life) it was decided not to do that.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

I don't think the reviewer really gets the approach used by DBlabs. Yes, the Tranquility DAC's work well with any source but there is a synergy with the Mac Mini that the author hasen't explored. He seems to be somewhat dismissive of this synergy based on experience with another DAC using the mini as a transport.

John is not dismissive of it - he simply did not have access to a mac-mini to do it.  He also heard the Tranquility fed from a Mac Mini so knows what it sounds like. 

Thanks
Bill

[jdbrian]

Bill

  If he had heard the mini as a source I find it odd that he didn't mention it at all. At the same time he mentions another mini based system that sounded inferior to a conventional transport. Perhaps it is a matter of style but I find the review a bit disjointed.  Overall however, it is positive and confirms some of the findings of users. Too bad he couldn't compare an optimized mini based system to a squeezebox or another source of his choice. He finds the bass to be a bit weak and this could be an impedance matching issue with the Tranquility and the input of his amps.

Brian

[Rapt]

Bhobba,

        I read a review where somebody who owned both tranquility dacs noted that the base dac had more bass but the S.E. had a more textured bass. Was this your experience?

       One more question    Everyone says how the Mac Mini is a superior front end/music server and although many people have explained why they thought it was better technically (power supply, OS etc.) I was hoping you could elaborate on the actual sonic differences between other computers and the Mac Mini?

    P.S.  John Darko did say in an E-mail and his review that lack of inputs was the only reason for the 4 stars and it was a 5 star sound quality DAC,  I am only interested in computer audio so this was a great review for me 
                                       

                                                                  Thanks

[bhobba]

If he had heard the mini as a source I find it odd that he didn't mention it at all. At the same time he mentions another mini based system that sounded inferior to a conventional transport. Perhaps it is a matter of style but I find the review a bit disjointed.  Overall however, it is positive and confirms some of the findings of users. Too bad he couldn't compare an optimized mini based system to a squeezebox or another source of his choice. He finds the bass to be a bit weak and this could be an impedance matching issue with the Tranquility and the input of his amps.

Hi Brian

I know where you are coming from.  The reason I suspect he didn't mention hearing it with a mini is that session was not part of his formal review - it was simply with a few friends including me when he picked up the DAC for review.  What you suggest about the bass is possible.  However I think the bass comment was compared to the WFS.  I have had both DAC's in my system for a while and that is what I found - the Tranquility bass (especially the SE) was not as powerful as the WFS, but to my ears had better balance and was more realistic.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

I read a review where somebody who owned both tranquility dacs noted that the base dac had more bass but the S.E. had a more textured bass. Was this your experience? One more question    Everyone says how the Mac Mini is a superior front end/music server and although many people have explained why they thought it was better technically (power supply, OS etc.) I was hoping you could elaborate on the actual sonic differences between other computers and the Mac Mini? P.S.  John Darko did say in an E-mail and his review that lack of inputs was the only reason for the 4 stars and it was a 5 star sound quality DAC,  I am only interested in computer audio so this was a great review for me 

I found the the bass of the SE to be both stronger and more detailed.  It was not as strong as the WFS, but I believe the bass in that is bit overblown.  I would describe it as more realistc.  The Mac-mini does not change the overall character of the DAC but it is blacker, has more detail and has better sounstaging.

And yes - rest assured this is a 5 star DAC sonically.  It is one of the three best DAC's I have ever heard and the other two are bit to quite a bit more expensive.  I have heard a few DAC's in my time but John has heard even more.  He has purchseed many DAC's over a long period of time to check them out.  Rest assured if he says this is a 5 star dac sonically then it is.

Oh and one thing I haven't mentioned yet is John will soon be getting an Auraliti for review:
http://www.auraliti.com/

For that I may send my Mac-Mini down for comparison - and one of the DAC's being used will probably be the Tranquility.  However for future comparisons I will be using the Auraliti because it makes it easy to compare SPDIF to USB.

Thanks
Bill

[johnnydarko]

I'm not dismissive of the MacMini synergy at all.  Eric explained in several emails that a 25% improvement could be had from using one as a transport.  I simply didn't have time to get hold of a MacMini and then liaise with Eric re. the computer's optimisation and then take the review further still.

It's a wonderful-sounding DAC and it's quite likely I shall write a follow-up piece (WITH MacMini) around Christmas time.

[Rapt]

I'm not dismissive of the MacMini synergy at all.  Eric explained in several emails that a 25% improvement could be had from using one as a transport.  I simply didn't have time to get hold of a MacMini and then liaise with Eric re. the computer's optimisation and then take the review further still.

It's a wonderful-sounding DAC and it's quite likely I shall write a follow-up piece (WITH MacMini) around Christmas time.

          Hi Johnny,

                     It would be great to see a review with the tranquility with the macmini and even better if you could add a Auraliti to the mix for a transport comparison    Thanks for posting here 

[johnnydarko]

...the thing is, my existing review could've gone in one of two directions.  I could've maximised the MacMini setup, a setup with which I had no previous experience (or reference points) OR I could've compared the Tranquility SE to other DACs by using my existing equipment with which I am very familiar.  I chose the latter path. 

As with every review, there will always be readers that won't like the ancillary equipment, who don't feel that it is sufficiently revealing or that it properly synergises with the item being reviewed.  Alas, I don't have the time or budget to mitigate for more equipment pairings - I wish this were not the case, but time is time and money is money.

I concede that my review doesn't cover *all* bases, but it does provide some solid comparative information.  Not everyone will find this useful, but it does give some indication of where the Tranquility SE sonically sits when used with more humdrum transports.  I know that both Eric Hider and others on this forum will state that one simply must use this DAC in tandem with a MacMini - all well and good, but this drives a superb-sounding (and I do mean SUPERB) DAC further into down the rabbit hole marked "niche".  If one were to factor in the cost of the MacMini and the db Labs USB cable, the total cost of ownership is around US$3k. 

I shall do my best to write a speedy follow-up, but I'm having an eye operation next week so it won't be until I've recuperated fully. 

A good friend has a system based around some ATCs and he has a MacMini.  I might take the Tranquility SE over to his place to see what it sounds like...

However, I feel that I have already effused positively about the Tranquility SE's sonic prowess and I'm not sure people want to read gushing prose in isolation about how "awesome" it sounds with a MacMini.  What would be the point without other reference DACs being present (my friend is a good one, but I don't think he would tolerate me switching DACs for hours on end).  Besides, I don't "know" his system as I know my own.

I have little doubt that the Tranquility SE WILL sound better with a MacMini as transport - but do people simply want confirmation of this?  Or do they want sonic specifics?  And compared to what benchmark?  My MacBook Pro might be suitable?

[saisunil]

When sending Tranquility DAC for review - it should be sent with a mac-mini if mac-mini is a must ... otherwise - we end up with under-optimized setup followed up with excuses and reasons ...
 
Eric, I hope you make a note of that ... it is another $1000 ...
 
Cheers

[bhobba]

When sending Tranquility DAC for review - it should be sent with a mac-mini if mac-mini is a must ... otherwise - we end up with under-optimized setup followed up with excuses and reasons ...Eric, I hope you make a note of that ... it is another $1000 ...

It was not sent by Eric it was sent but me.  Eric wanted it to be with a mini and I was going to supply one.  The problem though, as John has pointed out, he has to go in for cataract surgery in a week which would have delayed the review considerably.  John felt, for the reasons he detailed, he would rather do it without the mac-mini than wait. A review with a mini has a good chance of occurring later.  This review was done at the private expense of both me and John purely because we thought it was an interesting thing to do.  If anyone else wants to set up a review site like John has done and find someone who, like me, at their own expense, will purchase both a Tranquility and a mac-mini feel free.

Besides I don't really know what the problem is - this is a 5 star dac even without the mini.  No excuses etc required even without the mini - this is a serious DAC up their with the best.  All it will confirm is it gets better with a mini which is not exactly a secret.  What I think could be of value is the comparison that hopefully can be organised later - the comparison of the Mac Mini and an Auraliti feeding not only the Tranquility but other DAC's.  I know some who have done this and preferred the Auraliti.  I believe that will have real value.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

It would be great to see a review with the tranquility with the macmini and even better if you could add a Auraliti to the mix for a transport comparison    Thanks for posting here 

I will work with John to see if that can come about.  While I can't promise anything it is a distinct possibility.  But as John has explained he needs cataract surgery in a week and time to recover. A number of reviews will have built up and they will need to be done which means it will have to take a back seat.

Thanks
Bill

[TomS]

It was not sent by Eric it was sent but me.  Eric wanted it to be with a mini and I was going to supply one.  The problem though, as John has pointed out, he has to go in for cataract surgery in a week which would have delayed the review considerably.  John felt, for the reasons he detailed, he would rather do it without the mac-mini than wait. A review with a mini has a good chance of occurring later.  This review was done at the private expense of both me and John purely because we thought it was an interesting thing to do.  If anyone else wants to set up a review site like John has done and find someone who, like me, at their own expense, will purchase both a Tranquility and a mac-mini feel free.

Besides I don't really know what the problem is - this is a 5 star dac even without the mini.  No excuses etc required even without the mini - this is a serious DAC up their with the best.  All it will confirm is it gets better with a mini which is not exactly a secret.  What I think could be of value is the comparison that hopefully can be organised later - the comparison of the Mac Mini and an Auraliti feeding not only the Tranquility but other DAC's.  I know some who have done this and preferred the Auraliti.  I believe that will have real value.

Thanks
Bill

Bill,

How would the Auraliti feed a Tranquility DAC?  The device is advertised as AES or S/PDIF output only, as I understand it, through the ESI Juli@ card, though I see no reason why they couldn't send USB out as well.  Lynx was going to be an upgrade option but Linux support was not so good.

While I understand the logistics issue, it sure would also be nice to review a fully optimized Mach2Mini with the SE DAC and USB cable, which is apparently the best possible combo.  I think what many are finding is that you really need to consider the whole computer/playback system together to get the best measure of sound quality.  Obviously, setup and synergy matter a lot in this realm.

Tom

[saisunil]

More power to you Bill ...
My comment was to highlight the need for doing it right ... then no explanation would be needed.
 
Cheers
 

It was not sent by Eric it was sent but me.  Eric wanted it to be with a mini and I was going to supply one.  The problem though, as John has pointed out, he has to go in for cataract surgery in a week which would have delayed the review considerably.  John felt, for the reasons he detailed, he would rather do it without the mac-mini than wait. A review with a mini has a good chance of occurring later.  This review was done at the private expense of both me and John purely because we thought it was an interesting thing to do.  If anyone else wants to set up a review site like John has done and find someone who, like me, at their own expense, will purchase both a Tranquility and a mac-mini feel free.

Besides I don't really know what the problem is - this is a 5 star dac even without the mini.  No excuses etc required even without the mini - this is a serious DAC up their with the best.  All it will confirm is it gets better with a mini which is not exactly a secret.  What I think could be of value is the comparison that hopefully can be organised later - the comparison of the Mac Mini and an Auraliti feeding not only the Tranquility but other DAC's.  I know some who have done this and preferred the Auraliti.  I believe that will have real value.

Thanks
Bill

[jrebman]

Thanks all for the explanations, and I do understand why things sometimes have to be the way they are, but for me, the one thing that really stood out as a point of confusion was why it didn't originally get a 5 star rating.  Explanation: one of the big  factors in the sound of this dac is precisely what it lost the half point for -- namely the absence of a spdif connection, and that didn't seem to be fully explained in the review.

I know reviewing is a tough job and there is always somebody who will not be happy with the outcome, but this is one of the key points that Eric makes, and one of the things that very few others seem to realize, that the more interfaces you have, whether they are mechanically or electronically switched, you're doing harm to all the signals.

Anyway, just wanted to explain myself.

BTW, Brian, my speakers (Tonian Labs TL-D1 Mk. IIs) use a 8 inch fostex driver with a heavily damped whizzer and modified ribbon tweet.

Thanks again for the explanations,

Jim
i

[johnnydarko]

One of the big  factors in the sound of this dac is precisely what it lost the half point for -- namely the absence of a spdif connection, and that didn't seem to be fully explained in the review.

It was rated as a 4-star product because:

a)  being USB only - it errs towards a niche. 
b)  That a MacMini is needed to get the best from this DAC narrows said niche

I hope this clears up any confusion/uncertainty re. my review.

As for the Auraliti - yes, it's S/PDIF out on the Julia card so a like-for-like comparison with the MacMini as a transport (when feeding the Tranquility SE) won't be possible.

[johnnydarko]

When sending Tranquility DAC for review - it should be sent with a mac-mini if mac-mini is a must ... otherwise - we end up with under-optimized setup followed up with excuses and reasons ...
 
Eric, I hope you make a note of that ... it is another $1000 ...
 
Cheers

I think it should also be sold as such.  Or, at the very least, explained as such on the db Audio Labs website...

[highfilter]

Just to add my 2 cents... From my experience, the Mac Mini thing isn't exclusive to the Tranquility. I found the Mac Mini to be the best transport for computer audio in general. I have the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 and the optimized Mac Mini sounded the best on that as well. I tried optimizing Windows 7 on a PC, Windows 7 on the Mac Mini, and Mac OS X on the Mac Mini, and the Mac OS X / Mac Mini combo offered the best sound quality, from my listening - for both the DAC-2 and Tranquility SE.

I don't think the solid construction, isolated components and efficiency of the Mac Mini only benefits the Tranquility alone, it benefits any DAC that uses it. The effects may be greater on the Tranquility, but the Tranquility in general offers a higher quality experience so you'll notice the quality in source gear even more.

[johnnydarko]

Just to add my 2 cents... From my experience, the Mac Mini thing isn't exclusive to the Tranquility. I found the Mac Mini to be the best transport for computer audio in general. I have the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 and the optimized Mac Mini sounded the best on that as well. I tried optimizing Windows 7 on a PC, Windows 7 on the Mac Mini, and Mac OS X on the Mac Mini, and the Mac OS X / Mac Mini combo offered the best sound quality, from my listening - for both the DAC-2 and Tranquility SE.

I don't think the solid construction, isolated components and efficiency of the Mac Mini only benefits the Tranquility alone, it benefits any DAC that uses it. The effects may be greater on the Tranquility, but the Tranquility in general offers a higher quality experience so you'll notice the quality in source gear even more.

I don't doubt it.  And I see that MacMini as giving additional performance over and above the transports that were used in my review.  I think it was pretty clear from my findings that I described the Tranquility SE as having a 5-star sound and that even more sonic performance could be had by adding a MacMini as transport.  What more do people want?   

I stand by my review "findings" and I believe that both my Squeezebox Touch (USB output) and my MacBook Pro are perfectly valid transports with which to test any DAC - the Tranquility SE should be no exception.  I spent a considerable number of hours listening and changing system components to check and re-check conclusions.

However, my "complaint" is that db Audio Labs themselves and others suggest that the starting transport with the Tranquility SE should be a MacMini.  This may well be the case, but it doesn't make my findings with lesser transports any less valid.

Eric told me via email that a) he pretty much insists that buyers of the Tranquility use a MacMini and b) he was "VERY concerned" that I was not using one in my review. (As bhobba has explained, it was my intention to borrow his MacMini - but the review process was cut short due to my needing urgent eye surgery; as well as a couple of other issues that I don't wish to go into here).

If these two points don't illustrate that a MacMini is part of the db Audio Labs ethos, I don't know what does.  And that's FINE - really it is - but it needs to be declared upfront and on the db Audio Labs website so that potential customers are aware that this particular DAC requires the db Audio Labs USB cable and a MacMini as transport.