The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!

db audio labs · « **Reply #760 on:** 9 Dec 2010, 12:35 am »

Hi Guys,

Well I guess I need to re-iterate dB Audio Labs position on why we care to help our customers with computer suggestions.

Our company is more than just a digital component manufacturer. We are a digital solution provider. I seriously care about assisting my customers in getting the best sound possible from their DAC purchase which is fed firstly by a computer. It's about assisting everyone with anything we may learn on this journey of the computer that is feeding their Tranquility DAC it's music data.

A little known fact - When you purchase a Tranquility DAC, I will spend as much time as needed with you via the phone helping you set-up your computer. Going over all the tweaks and optimizations one by one that we've accumulated so you can get the best sound from your Tranquility DAC. This is free for all Tranquility owners. It takes a substantial amount of my free time but the payoff is that my customers will get the cumulative knowledge from hundreds of Tranquility owners and their computer optimization ideas all nailed down and implemented to another Tranquility owner's sound system via one phone call!

So, thus far that the Mac Mini is the best sounding solution. There is nothing keeping us from moving beyond the Mac Mini recommendation mind you. Its just at this point in time we've not heard anything better. Subsequently, since the Mini has held it's ground for over 16 months now, it's led us into a deep data dive with our entire Tranquility ownership base. Since 98% of the Tranquility owners are now using a Mac Mini for their computer, our net has become a great source of tweaking and growing toward constant improvement. Tranquility owners themselves serve as a HUGE net of experimenters that give us feedback on things they try as they tweak around with their Minis. And that helps the entire Computer / Tranquility construct achieve the best sonics. For everyone! Note: we also do the diligence of true double blind listening on our end for these tweaks, ideas. The "this is technically better so it must be implemented" bias doesn't get passed on. Tweaks must pass true sonic muster

Of a recent quote from my prior post - "many of the elusive delicate inner harmonics that define analog fluidity, massive soundstage air and amazing depth cues". These have been our actual findings to what the Mac Mini's brings to the table. All double blind confirmed mind you. Again, it's just crazy that computers could actually be defined like differences between pre-amps or amps. Who would have thunk it?

In regard to other computer solutions, we are ALWAYS looking for computers to suggest beyond the Mac Mini. Just tonight I had corresponded with a friend who may be able to get an interesting Linux USB transport to try and evaluate. It's all about attempting to identify the best computer front end offerings. Everything supported by the entire Tranquility net of owners and our own research combined.

Cheers to all

Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs

website - www.dbaudiolabs.com

bside123 · « **Reply #761 on:** 9 Dec 2010, 05:08 pm »

I feel compelled to comment that it is also my experience that Eric Hider's customer service is among the best I've encountered in the audio industry. I have narrowed my interactions to a only a handful of audio vendors regarding stereo gear, accessories and opinions, and Eric remains one of them.

About a month ago I received my Tranquility SE DAC, and although is seemed to function perfectly, there was a small concern about possibly damage or defect that it had encountered in shipping. Eric's immediate response (with absolutely no hesitation) was to replace the DAC with a brand new one... no questions asked whatsoever. In addition, Eric allowed me to keep the Tranquility SE in my position until the new one arrived, so that I could get to know the DAC and would not be without a Tranquility until the problem was solved! This is nothing less than first class.

I've rarely posted an "emotional" appeal, but I've watched (from afar) Eric's company and product take a lot of bullets. Eric's a pro, and has handled himself like a big boy with lots of patience throughout. I'm NOT making any claims that the Tranquility SE is the best DAC or is the end-all-be-all, but I continue to be astonished and amazed at the quality of my computer based audio played through the Tranquility SE. Truly astonishing... I never thought I'd make this statement. Alas, I am happy with the DAC and the company. For those that question, I simply suggest for them to actually audition the product within the guidelines that Eric suggests. BTW, I haven't as of yet graduated to a Mac Mini. I am still using a tweaked MacBook Pro and getting the aforementioned results. Therefore, I have no doubt in Eric's claims of a Mac Mini being a better player. I look forward to "upgrading" to a Mini in the new year.

Lastly... no I am not a shill or associated with Db Audio Labs in any way. I found Eric through his advertising and threads on AudioCircle and Audiogon. I made my decision to purchase his product after reading everything I could find, and then by spending three, separate, lengthy phone calls directly with Eric who answered my questions and suspicions. He offered me to audition the product. What else can one expect? Again, this is first class.

Regards,
Din Dayemi

johnnydarko · « **Reply #762 on:** 9 Dec 2010, 10:18 pm »

Quote from: bside123 on 9 Dec 2010, 05:08 pm

I haven't as of yet graduated to a Mac Mini. I am still using a tweaked MacBook Pro and getting the aforementioned results. Therefore, I have no doubt in Eric's claims of a Mac Mini being a better player. I look forward to "upgrading" to a Mini in the new year.

My experiences exactly. Sounds great with a MacBook Pro. I'm looking forward to getting me a MacMini too.

trianglezerius · « **Reply #763 on:** 9 Dec 2010, 11:34 pm »

I remember going from my Macbook to my 2010 Mac Mini and some the differences were profound. I noticed more air and bloom on vocals plus deeper bass. Going to the Mini was well worth it IMO!

bhobba · « **Reply #764 on:** 10 Dec 2010, 12:25 am »

Hy Guys

I have tested the Tranquility with and without a Mac-Mini and it makes a big difference. But I do have high hopes of the Auraliti:
http://www.auraliti.com/

I have ordered one and will be doing a comparison to an optimized mac-mini. I believe Eric may be checking it out as well. People thinking of upgrading to a mini may like to delay it until the comparisons are complete.

Thanks
Bill

2bigears · « **Reply #765 on:** 10 Dec 2010, 12:28 am »

Eric is top shelf,let that be know. just got the new upgraded dac today.warming now.

agcs57 · « **Reply #766 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 03:14 am »

Today, by way of update, I am listening to Andreas Schiff playing the Goldbergs. I have today the Auraliti hooked up to the Tranquility SE - Jadis Orchestra Reference - Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors.

It is presenting an enchanting presentation full of nuance and delicacy. It is a little suspect in tone with the piano (it tends to burnish the edges a little) but overall if you seek an analogue presentation (which I take as meaning "musical") then the Tranquility should be at the top of your audition list under $2k (which is where I think it is currently).

Add excellent customer service and you have a winner. Especially for non computer types wanting to get into the big bad world of computer audio - having Eric on hand to guide you through set up is worth the cost of admission alone.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #767 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 01:32 pm »

I'm very curious if anyone has tried using the Vaunix Lab Brick USB Hub to send the USB signal, rather than straight out of the computer. One of the biggest problems with USB based audio is that the USB format itself was never designed for audiophile purposes. The signal and power sections are really not isolated at all. Getting the unnecessary bus power away from the DAC by using that Lab Brick rather than a motherboard USB port should provide some improvement, and for those using laptops, should eliminate the difference between battery and AC power. Another, much cheaper possibility is that since the Tranquility isn't bus powered, use a USB cable that has the power section disconnected, like the one available with the battery powered Hiface. Even the most expensive audiophile grade cable is still carrying 5V bus power that not only doesn't need to be there but is highly detrimental to the sound.

Also, the fact that the Tranquility is SO sensitive to the source would seem to indicate that whatever special sauce is being applied to the USB implementation doesn't work. Any standard adaptive mode USB to SPdif converter has similar problems. Would using Streamlength add to the price of the DAC? Sure. More than the "required" tricked out Mac Mini? No. It would also open up 88.2, 96, 176.4, and 192. Which, let's face it, is the future of audio. ART makes the same argument with their Legato that 44.1 is all most people need, and that's probably true for a couple more years, max.

bhobba · « **Reply #768 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 02:10 pm »

Quote from: DaveBSC on 12 Dec 2010, 01:32 pm

Also, the fact that the Tranquility is SO sensitive to the source would seem to indicate that whatever special sauce is being applied to the USB implementation doesn't work.

It doesn't indicate that to me - it indicates the 'special sauce' works extremely well because it is so transparent to what it is fed. Remember this DAC is designed by a top notch DAC expert - anything you can think of to make it better they would have thought of. The reason it is not used is it almost certainly is not theoretically better and/or a double blind test showed it was sonically inferior. The 'special sauce' is in fact the large amount of R&D that went into investigating just about anything you can think of.

Thanks
Bill

saisunil · « **Reply #769 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 02:30 pm »

Welcome to audiocircle ...
Let's have fun!

Quote from: DaveBSC on 12 Dec 2010, 01:32 pm

I'm very curious if anyone has tried using the Vaunix Lab Brick USB Hub to send the USB signal, rather than straight out of the computer. One of the biggest problems with USB based audio is that the USB format itself was never designed for audiophile purposes. The signal and power sections are really not isolated at all. Getting the unnecessary bus power away from the DAC by using that Lab Brick rather than a motherboard USB port should provide some improvement, and for those using laptops, should eliminate the difference between battery and AC power. Another, much cheaper possibility is that since the Tranquility isn't bus powered, use a USB cable that has the power section disconnected, like the one available with the battery powered Hiface. Even the most expensive audiophile grade cable is still carrying 5V bus power that not only doesn't need to be there but is highly detrimental to the sound.

Also, the fact that the Tranquility is SO sensitive to the source would seem to indicate that whatever special sauce is being applied to the USB implementation doesn't work. Any standard adaptive mode USB to SPdif converter has similar problems. Would using Streamlength add to the price of the DAC? Sure. More than the "required" tricked out Mac Mini? No. It would also open up 88.2, 96, 176.4, and 192. Which, let's face it, is the future of audio. ART makes the same argument with their Legato that 44.1 is all most people need, and that's probably true for a couple more years, max.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #770 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 03:09 pm »

Quote from: bhobba on 12 Dec 2010, 02:10 pm

It doesn't indicate that to me - it indicates the 'special sauce' works extremely well because it is so transparent to what it is fed. Remember this DAC is designed by a top notch DAC expert - anything you can think of to make it better they would have thought of. The reason it is not used is it almost certainly is not theoretically better and/or a double blind test showed it was sonically inferior. The 'special sauce' is in fact the large amount of R&D that went into investigating just about anything you can think of.

Thanks
Bill

Sorry, but I don't buy it. The better the receiver, the LESS sensitive it should be to the quality, or lack thereof, of the source. This isn't a linestage we're talking about where utter transparency to the source is the ideal. It's actually the opposite. Re-clockers like the Pace-car work not by being transparent to the source buy by scrubbing it clean.

Didn't DB basically say that Asynchronous was not used for cost reasons? There is NO other reason I can think of not to use it.

jrebman · « **Reply #771 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 04:20 pm »

Just curious if you've ever listened to this dac, or just speculating?

Have you also examined the any of the better usb cables to see how the power and signal are isolated.

Did you also know that most usb devices simply won't work without the power lines as that is what the receiver chip needs in order to "wake up", even if the device is not powered through the cable?

Did you read the first paragraph of Joohnny Darko's review of the dac?

I've had several async dacs, and none of them come close to the jitter performance of the Tranquility -- usually best demonstrated by the huge soundstage. And jitter is not jitter, there are places where it matters and places where it doesn't matter as much.

Also, simply adding streamlength does not increase the resolution of the dac, the dac chip itself has to support those rates.

Really, until youve listened to this dac with various source computers and software, and a few different cables, you're just guessing based on some faulty "common knowledge" that seems to float all over the audio forums.

-- Jim

DaveBSC · « **Reply #772 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 05:27 pm »

The DAC's own designer indicates that unless you're using a Mac Mini, you're not getting the performance that you paid for. Is that speculation? For those of us unwilling to buy a Mac, that's basically saying "don't buy this". What's so magical about the Mini? OSX and whatever software players may play a very small role, but the big deal seems to be either its USB output is less jittery, and/or contains less noise from the power supply than other computers.

That's why I asked if anyone had tried the Lab Brick. If the super secret USB implementation really is better than Streamlength at dealing with jitter, then is it all down to just 5V bus power noise? If so, solving that is extremely easy, and by no means requires buying a new computer. If you can't get away with no bus power at all, route the power part of the USB cable to a separate power supply (as with the optional battery Hiface cable). The Lab Brick is basically the same idea - get the bus power away from the computer.

ctviggen · « **Reply #773 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 06:29 pm »

The problem I see is that the dB Audio Labs DAC isn't cheap (at least not to me), and then to say that you have to buy the Mac Mini on top of that, really puts the price out of range.

trianglezerius · « **Reply #774 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 06:38 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen on 12 Dec 2010, 06:29 pm

The problem I see is that the dB Audio Labs DAC isn't cheap (at least not to me), and then to say that you have to buy the Mac Mini on top of that, really puts the price out of range.

You can't do this in steps (buy the dac now and a Mini later)? The Mac Mini is only a recommendation.

trianglezerius · « **Reply #775 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 06:51 pm »

Quote from: DaveBSC on 12 Dec 2010, 03:09 pm

Didn't DB basically say that Asynchronous was not used for cost reasons? There is NO other reason I can think of not to use it.

Where did you get this info about Asynchronous because your sadly missed informed? It was a choice based on sonics not cost. If you wanna find out more about this e-mail Eric.

bside123 · « **Reply #776 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 07:00 pm »

Quote from: trianglezerius on 12 Dec 2010, 06:38 pm

You can't do this in steps (buy the dac now and a Mini later)? The Mac Mini is only a recommendation.

This is exactly the process that I have started using... a Tranquility SE with my MacBook Pro. I will upgrade to a Mac Mini, etc. in steps. Nonetheless, the sound is outstanding.

trianglezerius · « **Reply #777 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 07:04 pm »

Quote from: bside123 on 12 Dec 2010, 07:00 pm

This is exactly process. I have started using a Tranquility SE with my MacBook Pro. I will upgrade to a Mac Mini, etc. in steps. Nonetheless, the sound is outstanding.

I used a Macbook, until this fall, before I bought a Mini. And the wait was worth it IMO.

jrebman · « **Reply #778 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 09:21 pm »

Dave,

You sound very confident in many of your assumptions about the dac, usb for audio, and what makes the difference with the Mac Mini (reducing it's superior performance to the condition of the power on the usb port.)

But since you seem to have no real experience with any of these things yourself, it's all just speculation. Have you made these measurements, have you even listened? What about the people who say the mac mini makes all their usb dacs sound better? What about all the people, myself included who used both versions of the Tranquility with a less than optimum, run of the mill xp box and still thought it was among the best digital I've ever heard (including some in very rarified territory)? How about the fact that all this wonderful sound is in fact using usb, that non-optimum audiio interface?

If you don't want the great sound of the Tranquility, if you're convinced that usb is a terrible thing and/or that bus power, even though it is not used for anything but waking up the receiver chip in this dac, is the cause of all sonic problems with usb, then... don't buy one.

But please cast your dark cloud elsewhere. It's fine to be skeptical, but without any real world experience and speculatiing based on internet hear-say, is really not productive.

-- Jim

newzooreview · « **Reply #779 on:** 12 Dec 2010, 10:10 pm »

This canard about the "Tranquility DAC requires a Mac Mini" needs to be put to rest once and for all.

I bought my Tranquility when I had a notebook computer as a source, and I was thrilled with it. It was clearly better than the PS Audio Link DAC III (with Cullen mods) that I was using.

The Tranquility or Tranquility SE is the foundation of a system that you can live with happily over the long term. I did try the Mac Mini after a while (months) and things went from excellent to more excellent. I'm very glad that I had a DAC that had room to grow, so to speak.