[math-geek]

Sorry that I have not been active in the forum as of late but college has had me very busy this year.

I up until recently owned a Bryston 2B amp paired with a PS Audio 4.6 preamp running Dynaudio Contour 1.3 monitors.  I have been buying and selling used electronics to good effect in order to gain funds for upgrades.  A month ago I purchased a Krell KAV 300iL integrated amp. for $850.00 off from Craigslist.  My intent was, as with other items bought and sold, to turn it for a profit.  I ran into a snag though, it was so far superior to my (then) setup that I kept the Krell and have since sold my Bryston (I can hear you now). 

The Krell runs my newer upgraded Contour 1.3 SEs to great effect.  These new Dyns really like some power to sing at their best and it seems like a very good match.  It is not fair to compare a 60 wpc Bryston to well over 200 wpc but the Krell has stunning dynamics, roome shaking bass, grain free highs and, overall, a very coherent, transparent sound.

My question is where in the Bryston line do a look as an upgrade?  Also, do any of you have any experience with Krell and Bryston as a comparison.  Specifically have any of you compared a Krell KAV 400xi/300iL to any Bryston gear and if so what are your thoughts?  When my funds permit I may look into a Bryston B100SST integrated.  The problem being that I would have to buy it to compare the two.  That said, the person whom bought my former rig is my best friend and he is ecstatic with the performance. 

It is obvious that both Bryston and Krell make very good sounding (neutral) equipment hence their respective devout followers.  Due to monetary consrictions I will probably have to keep the Krell for a while but I am open to all suggestions and opinions on the matter.  Bryston will forever be in my heart though for the fact that it was my first good taste of high-end sound reproduction.  What a difference from the mid-fi stuff that I had owned, a real eye opener!

Thank you and I really do look forward to your responses.

Earl

[werd]

Sorry that I have not been active in the forum as of late but college has had me very busy this year.

I up until recently owned a Bryston 2B amp paired with a PS Audio 4.6 preamp running Dynaudio Contour 1.3 monitors.  I have been buying and selling used electronics to good effect in order to gain funds for upgrades.  A month ago I purchased a Krell KAV 300iL integrated amp. for $850.00 off from Craigslist.  My intent was, as with other items bought and sold, to turn it for a profit.  I ran into a snag though, it was so far superior to my (then) setup that I kept the Krell and have since sold my Bryston (I can hear you now). 

The Krell runs my newer upgraded Contour 1.3 SEs to great effect.  These new Dyns really like some power to sing at their best and it seems like a very good match.  It is not fair to compare a 60 wpc Bryston to well over 200 wpc but the Krell has stunning dynamics, roome shaking bass, grain free highs and, overall, a very coherent, transparent sound.

My question is where in the Bryston line do a look as an upgrade?  Also, do any of you have any experience with Krell and Bryston as a comparison.  Specifically have any of you compared a Krell KAV 400xi/300iL to any Bryston gear and if so what are your thoughts?  When my funds permit I may look into a Bryston B100SST integrated.  The problem being that I would have to buy it to compare the two.  That said, the person whom bought my former rig is my best friend and he is ecstatic with the performance. 

It is obvious that both Bryston and Krell make very good sounding (neutral) equipment hence their respective devout followers.  Due to monetary consrictions I will probably have to keep the Krell for a while but I am open to all suggestions and opinions on the matter.  Bryston will forever be in my heart though for the fact that it was my first good taste of high-end sound reproduction.  What a difference from the mid-fi stuff that I had owned, a real eye opener!

Thank you and I really do look forward to your responses.

Earl

Look at moving into a Torus as a definite upgrade whether using krell or Bryston. The Torus will drive your Krell or Bryston with so much more authority it will make your eyes bulge the first time you hear it.

You don't get that immediate "satisfied"  feeling too often with adding new pieces.

[ralph1950]

Working with company's that sell both over the years, I found that my taste preferred Bryston over Krell.  Krell just sounded a little to shrill for my ears.  Not that it sounded bad, just too bright for the music I listen too.  Also cost wise, Bryston gives more bang for the buck than Krell.  (A little over priced)
Also, a better warranty by far.  20yrs. Vs. 5 years.  And a hassel with getting it repaired & back in a short amount of time.  Bryston has the best service and rersponce time over most other companys.  Except maybe Oppo digital. ( in the e-mail responce time that is)  So, Go with Bryston &  forget the rest!

[math-geek]

Werd, what the heck is a Torus? 

To the other response.  I have found neither Krell nor Bryston "shrilly" with my 1.3 SEs.  The Contour 1.3 SEs are absolutely in any terms a fantastic monitor.  They offer bass to no less than -3db @ 37hz (anechoic), and overall astounding neutrality, all out of a box of 15"x9"x11".  This is truly a monitor that plays like a floorstander or better in many cases. 

If any of you out there are on a budget like myself you may want to consider a pair of used Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SEs.  These are really special and wirth an audition, the contour 1.3 MkI and MkII are very good but these are really so much better that they defy comparison.

[werd]

Werd, what the heck is a Torus? 

To the other response.  I have found neither Krell nor Bryston "shrilly" with my 1.3 SEs.  The Contour 1.3 SEs are absolutely in any terms a fantastic monitor.  They offer bass to no less than -3db @ 37hz (anechoic), and overall astounding neutrality, all out of a box of 15"x9"x11".  This is truly a monitor that plays like a floorstander or better in many cases. 

If any of you out there are on a budget like myself you may want to consider a pair of used Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SEs.  These are really special and wirth an audition, the contour 1.3 MkI and MkII are very good but these are really so much better that they defy comparison.

Hello

Here is the link http://www.toruspower.com/ This link is off of Bryston's website and Bryston's only officially endorsed A/C power conditioner.

[math-geek]

Werd,

That is nice but there is no way that I can afford a Torus power supply at this time.  I am fortunate to be able to have what I have with my income (low).  The two best systems here at Western Michigan University belong to me and my friend (the now Bryston/Dynaudio owner).  I regrettably live in a state that believes that cutting higher education "costs" will improve their financial situation (Michigan).  Ironic though that half the students that I tutor in math cannot comprehend fractions.  It is sorry for me to admit that I live in a state of great beauty but run by people with little foresight (or none).  Our loser Governor Granholm claims that it's the Senates fault but SHE SIGNED the bill that cut funding!  Thank God that she's not President.

Sorry about the rant but I found out today that I am losing out on about $3000.00 per year of aid that I will have to mow pay back in loans (at least the banks will love me).  On the plus (or minus side for MI) I will move anywhers but here for a job.  I am outta here ASAP!

[1ZIP]

.....foresight is in short supply almost all over.  Find a state to work in which there is no income tax....there aren't many!  If you look at Washington state....bring a snorkel and realize that mold is a flavor here!

I looked at nearly everything before I upgraded my system a year ago, including Krell, McIntosh and the list goes on.  You can't go wrong with any Bryston component!  My only complaint about Bryston is that is has no meters and cold blue lights!

[math-geek]

1zip,  that is a very nice system!  The B&W 805s are (along with the rest of the 800 series) really good sounding speakers.  On different forums that I am a part of you hear so many opinions.  Some claim that B&W spekears, Krell, and Bryston are bright or Dynaudio lifeless, etc, etc.  It seems that said brands have one thing in common...neutrality.  Equipment that does not add romance and/or bloom is not everyones cup of tea.  I have listened to a McIntosh integrated (new and expensive) that did sound very good but if I had the money I could buy Bryston separates for the same price.

My eventual upgrade will probably include a Bryston 4Bsst or a big Mac integrated.  The big blue/green meters are so sexy!  My Krell 300iL is also a very good looking piece of equipment.  I had seen them in pictures but pictures do no justice to the fit and finish and, though it looks like a "lifestyle" unit, it weighs a hefty 31 lbs. The Bryston B100 in silver is another very well built, great looking amp.  I know that looks have nothing to do with sound quality but it is a bonus to find equipment that both looks good and sounds great.

This is sort of like the great ice cream debate.  Vanilla or chocolate?  Both are great but which do you prefer?

Thanks for the input.

[Mike-48]

It is obvious that both Bryston and Krell make very good sounding (neutral) equipment hence their respective devout followers.  ...I am open to all suggestions and opinions on the matter.  Bryston will forever be in my heart though for the fact that it was my first good taste of high-end sound reproduction.  What a difference from the mid-fi stuff that I had owned, a real eye opener!

Earl,

You are right, two great manufacturers. One difference is that Krell traditionally had very expensive metalwork, while Bryston seemed to put more of the resources into the electronics. So Bryston tended to be better value for the dollar. You already know about the warranty. 

One thing you may not appreciate is that through the years the sound of Krell gear has changed and so has the sound of Bryston.  I remember that several decades ago, Krell gear was considered to have incredible bass but be quite cold (not to say shrill) in the upper octaves. The voicing, as I understand it, has changed in the last 5-10 yrs to be more mellow, though I haven't listened to Krell gear in a while.  The Bryston changes have been more evolutionary, but what one reads is that from the original amps through the ST, then SST, then SST2 series, the sound has become more refined, especially in the treble. The only comparison I have been able to make was ST to SST, and it was a remarkable improvement.  My point is, it's impossible to compare "Krell gear" to "Bryston gear" in general. 

And, as others have said in other threads, given two great amps, the higher-powered one can often sound better, perhaps because it runs in Class A longer.  (But with lesser quality amps, the high-powered ones are sometimes worse.)

I owned a solid-state amp by another mfgr with a very high-end reputation. The 14B SST bettered it in EVERY regard: bass solidity and control, treble clarity and gentleness, transparency, imaging, and NO mechanical transformer hum. If you had an old 2B (with no ST or SST suffix), you should be aware that Bryston electronics have evolved tremendously. When the very demanding Harry Pearson uses a Bryston amp as his reference, you know something good is going on.

Happy listening!

[Dilbert]

A new squared series should seriously spank the older Krell pretty well.
My two cents.

[John Casler]

I am both a BRYSTON and KRELL dealer.

Although it may simply reflect my specific clients, they seem to prefer BRYSTON 20:1.

Both offer great sounding high quality equipment.

I have, in the past found KRELL support and customer service to be very difficult, and BRYSTON's to be exceptional.  I guess I should post more regarding just how well even the smallest customer care issues are quickly and simply "taken care of".

I doubt you would be highly disappointed with the performance of either.

[Phil A]

Krell from what I understand and have read has gone through some difficult times financially.  I'm sure with corporate reshuffling that has caused some of the service issues.  Bryston also sells commercially (e.g. studios) vs. just to consumers.  So Bryston is a bit more diverse and also due to that fact pays more attention to customer service.  Just look at this forum and James Tanner's participation.  I have E-Mailed James over the course of many years perhaps 10 times and each time I get a prompt, professional and courteous answer.  Bryston my initially slow getting into home theater (and doesn't do things as fast as other cos.) and I went from the ST series amps to another brand and learned first hand of the value of good service.  Everything that has ever been made breaks.  Not every unit comes out perfect.  What separates good cos. from great ones is how they handle the problems and live up to promises and guarantees made.  Those that do a good job develop customer loyalty which helps support the product base and makes people think about what they may lose.  Those that do a mediocre job at such things, especially given a less than robust economy for luxury items are going to suffer a bit more.

[Viajero5000]

These "x" vs "y" conversations always remind of the 5 blind men and the elephant story...  my experience is that the perceived performance of a component varies greatly on the way it synergizes with the rest of the components in the system and the room. A component can sound like crap in one system but great in another. 

Last night I was A/Bing my Bryston 14B squared vs my Plinius SA 250 mk IV with PMC speakers and a bcd-1. I think the perception that some people have of Bryston having grainy/harsh mids/tops etc., and Class A amps being better than A/B etc. is just wrong. Plinius is well known as having very good non grainy mids. The 14B2 actually has some of the clearest, open and grain free mid-range that I have heard from an amp, and is a step ahead of the Plinius in this area. The Bryston also has very extended highs. The 250 has prodigious, tight bass, more colour and very good soundstaging.  The 250 also has better build quality (it's gorgeously rugged). 

Overall two superb components in their own right, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. On the balance, in terms of overall sound quality, the 14B2 is hard to beat, and surprisingly not due to its bass performance, but its mid and high performance.  The thing with Bryston amps is that they don't hide issues elsewhere in the system (like sibilance, grain etc) and end up taking the heat cos other amps don't provide this level of pass through.

After sales service is also a key issue. Emailed Plinius last week about something and no replies, so had to call NZ on the tele.  But at the end of the day Bryston and Plinius are two different flavours of ice cream as someone said, and I love em both!

Am having another pair of speakers in this weekend and will be interested to see how the two amps pair with those....

[math-geek]

Thank all of you for your outpouring of information.  I am very interested in trying out a 4b-sst2 in the future.  I think from what i've read that it should have the neutrality that I crave along with thunderous dynamics.

Here's a couple of pics. of my current rig.

[math-geek]

Oops! one image failed.

[werd]

I'd like to see Bryston vs Krell play 9 innings in a baseball game... that'd be fun to watch. I'd ump.

[danman]

You can't go wrong with the 4BSST2. I recently bought the new CD from Michael Buble and it is extremely well recorded and one thing is that his music changes from soft passages to high dynamics in a split second and my Martin Logans must really tax the amp when this happens BUT you would never know it! The amp has incredible dynamic control much more than my older YBA I used to own.

I have listened to KRELL and they are nice but I don't think they beat what I have at all. However, this is my own opinion and it is only worth that! Everybody has the right to judge their own preferences. It is just that I am a Martin Logan speaker lover and they need power and authority to shine more than 90% of the speakers out there so if it can handle my 7 foot Quests that dip to 2 ohms on a whim, than you should be in heaven!

[math-geek]

My buying/selling has allowed me to audition quite a number of products from different manufacturers.  I had a YBA YA-201 100wpc integrated come through and I felt that it had flabby, one note bass, restricted dynamics, and a slightly rolled off treble but very good midrange.  NAD... I just won't go there.  My favorites have been Bryston, Krell and Proceed in no particular order.  This is hard to compare though in that my Bryston was 25 years old.  Considering the age of my old 2B it acquitted itsel very well.  The 2B really piqued my interest in sampling a newer Bryston amplifier.  The 2B was the strongest 60 wpc amp that I have ever heard and though it couldn't plumb the depths in bass its midrange was excellent as well its treble performance was quite good.  It's easy to see why it was considered a ground breaking product when it was new, heck there is a lot of new equipment that is not as good.

[danman]

I started with NAD products when they were a pretty good company but they lost their way and Cambridge Audio is eating them up alive!

[danman]

My local dealer swears by YBA products and yes they are very well built and supported but I found them dry. I use to have JMLabs with them and although well liked did not do it for me!

Bryston with my Logans is the best combo I have ever heard and I listened to so much before buying either one and never looked back. I can't see changing companies for electronics but speakers are always an option as this area is constantly changing and in my opinion is the area where you can make the most change.

I actually prefer the older Martin Logans other than the Summit X or CLX which are a little expensive for me. I like a really big panel and the compromise with the newer models (other than CLX) is the mid-range due to a smaller panel however, woofer integration is better.