Is FM bound for the graveyard?

Wayner · « **on:** 17 Nov 2009, 08:10 pm »

On our local classic rock station this morning, morning DJ Tom Bernard of KQRS FM made a comment that really got me to thinking. Is FM bound for the dumpster? I have the opportunity to pick up a nice FM tuner, but now I'm having second thoughts. I enjoy FM in the morning and early afternoon as one or more tuners are going at the same time and it's nice to have some music that I don't have to think about while I'm doing some computer or house work.

The comment is pushing me to believe that almost all, if not all commercial interests in broadcasting are going to just be streaming on the internet. The cost of operating a transmitter(s) alone should be an indication. I'd like to see what the electric bill is for a 100K watt transmitter for a month. So, the question, will it all end up on the internet? Will cost and survival mode force the issue?

What say you?

Wayner

Brett Buck · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Nov 2009, 08:10 pm

On our local classic rock station this morning, morning DJ Tom Bernard of KQRS FM made a comment that really got me to thinking. Is FM bound for the dumpster? I have the opportunity to pick up a nice FM tuner, but now I'm having second thoughts. I enjoy FM in the morning and early afternoon as one or more tuners are going at the same time and it's nice to have some music that I don't have to think about while I'm doing some computer or house work.

The comment is pushing me to believe that almost all, if not all commercial interests in broadcasting are going to just be streaming on the internet. The cost of operating a transmitter(s) alone should be an indication. I'd like to see what the electric bill is for a 100K watt transmitter for a month. So, the question, will it all end up on the internet? Will cost and survival mode force the issue?

What say you?

I think for all intents and purposes, its already dead. Certainly in terms of high-fi it was dead a decade ago when the stations switched to compressed digital sources. I think the content is almost uniformly garbage, too, but that's in the eye of the beholder.

Functionally, the interference issues are just getting worse and worse, and I have given up on FM because it's impossible to get decent reception regardless of the tuner used. I also don't think that ANY broadcast radio station is going to be able to stay in business as we have known it, just because there are so many alternatives (CD, iPod, etc). And say what you will about his pros and cons, but Howard Stern was keeping a lot of these stations on the air with revenue dollars. Once he left, most radio networks and stations were in A LOT of trouble right away.

BTW, the OTA digital TV sound signal from my favorite station (KCSM In San Mateo, JazzTV) seems to be outstanding in all respects. BY FAR better than I have ever heard FM at any time since I have been paying attention. And they must have some pretty good equipment up front, too, because it's an equal to the best I can come up with at home. That's not a good alternative overall, since you can't count on it (and the "cable music stations" on the TV cable are the same compressed signal and dubious content you get on FM or HD radio), but does say there are potential alternatives.

Brett

Minn Mark · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 08:35 pm »

Likewise lamentable IMHO is the demise of shortwave reception for continental US. As an owner of two SW sets (one modern Grundig, one vintage, tubed Zenith Trans-Oceanic that saw duty in Korea) the last 20+ years have seen stations available in the SW bands disappear, most notably the BBC (now only heard over-the-air via FM public radio rebroadcast, or sat-radio). Too bad....iPods (and the like) have done away with the old crystal sets, etc etc.

sic transit gloria munde (so passes the glory of the world).

Mark

Dan Kolton · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 08:39 pm »

FM is not dead in the D. We have WRCJ funded by listeners and owned by Detroit Public Schools. Plays Classical all day and Jazz all night. We also have CBC Radio 2 from Windsor, Ontario. More eclectic programing than WRCJ, and WDET (Wayne Sate University in Detroit--my Alma Mater) which has some music but mostly talk. There are other good university stations I can pull from Lansing and Ann Arbor. Don't think any of these will go away any time soon!

Wayner · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 08:53 pm »

I'm not that hip on government run radio. It's a rather sore spot with me. I'm also not so concerned about the quality of the meat, just that the meat is available at the counter so to speak, rather then the sprouts and tofu, if you get my drift. If radio ends up on the internet, then we are all paying for something that used to be free. You can still pick it up with a portable radio and listen to a ballgame, or talk radio or classical or classic rack if you wish. I'd be sad if free commercial radio broadcasts were lost.

Wayner

jazzcourier · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 09:03 pm »

As one who toiled in the public radio wars for 30 years as a producer/programmer i have been wondering if there IS a future to FM radio.I really do not see any expansion of what we have on the dial as of now.I do see a time when these frequencies will be sold off and more small market,niche programming will take over.The airwaves would flood with specialty stations catering to one specific music- Imagine having to sell "time" (advertising space) on an "all Reggae" station,your only hope would be that the medical marijuana laws loosen up .Eventually there will be big blocks of static between prosperous stations.When FM radio started after WW2,as a non-commercial,educational band they had to give radios away to get people to listen at KPFA-fm in Berkeley.
Those in New England are lucky to have so many college stations to choose from .....flea powered little paupers that last a half hour as you are driving,it fades and another one pops up playing all manner of music with mind numbing bloopers and technical glitches.It is real and wonderful and bristles with the excitement of sharing the latest garage band demo .... the band coming to town and oh yeah,we are giving free tickets away to the first five callers.This is magic and this is America at it's best.This is something the internet can't touch,the human voice in all it's comfort and all you have to do is turn a knob and click you are in someone's head and heart and the music,whatever it be,pumps along like blood through your veins.So listen up and enjoy,these may be the last golden days of radio on the FM dial- as we know it, and loved it.

Wayner · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 09:34 pm »

Public radio could have been the start to the end. When you rob Peter to pay Paul, things get ugly. I like free market driven things, even if it's bad over anything that has a fund-raising weekend. This was not what real radio was about. It's like TV. Free to those who still have an antenna. If you don't like the program, you switch the channel, same as radio. This is an important part of the free world. Are there too many stations, the free market will decide. Are there too many newspapers, the free market will decide. This is a bad deal, because free radio is being attacked on several fronts, by government radio, the economy and technology. The later, I fear is going to be the winner.

Wayner

doug s. · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 09:42 pm »

easily 90% of my critical listening is done w/a quality fm tuna. fm will easily outlast anyone posting in this forum. but, quality programming will be hit or miss, depending on where you are located. fortunately, where i live i have at least four quality fm stations - they play a quality uncompressed signal, and music that i like. not one is commercial - it seems there has been a dearth of decent commercial radio stations for many years, in many areas. this happened long before internet/satellite/etc... (and, wayner, fyi, one of these four commercial radio stations is 100% govt-free, & doesn't take a penny from any priwate company. there are many non-commercial stations that are not npr or govt-affiliated.)

so, if you have a quality station in your area that plays music you like, and you are willing to support it, i'd say definitely it's worth it to buy a quality tuna. (and, if you happen to like a commercial station w/its compressed signal, due to its content, then inwest in a dbx 3bx expander, which will increase the dynamic range. this works for other sources besides radio, as well. one reason why i won't own a preamp w/o a tape loop, so i can switch it in/out of the signal path at will.

)

a cool website:

http://radio-locator.com/

doug s.

S Clark · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 09:47 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Nov 2009, 09:34 pm

Public radio could have been the start to the end. When you rob Peter to pay Paul, things get ugly. I like free market driven things, even if it's bad over anything that has a fund-raising weekend. This was not what real radio was about. It's like TV. Free to those who still have an antenna. If you don't like the program, you switch the channel, same as radio. This is an important part of the free world. Are there too many stations, the free market will decide. Are there too many newspapers, the free market will decide. This is a bad deal, because free radio is being attacked on several fronts, by government radio, the economy and technology. The later, I fear is going to be the winner.

Wayner

Not trying to get into a political discussion with you, but NPR holds such a small market share that I doubt that it has any effect on the overall market decline of radio in general.

doug s. · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 09:58 pm »

Quote from: S Clark on 17 Nov 2009, 09:47 pm

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Nov 2009, 09:34 pm
Public radio could have been the start to the end. When you rob Peter to pay Paul, things get ugly. I like free market driven things, even if it's bad over anything that has a fund-raising weekend. This was not what real radio was about. It's like TV. Free to those who still have an antenna. If you don't like the program, you switch the channel, same as radio. This is an important part of the free world. Are there too many stations, the free market will decide. Are there too many newspapers, the free market will decide. This is a bad deal, because free radio is being attacked on several fronts, by government radio, the economy and technology. The later, I fear is going to be the winner.

Wayner
Not trying to get into a political discussion with you, but NPR holds such a small market share that I doubt that it has any effect on the overall market decline of radio in general.

and, it's been around for a long time, since 1970... also, plenty of meat on npr, not yust sprouts & tofu...

doug s.

Wayner · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 09:59 pm »

I hear ya S Clark. I do enjoy NPR (MPR) as these are the only stations that play classical music, which I enjoy (at times). I disagree with Doug S. that all is well in the broadcast industry. Now on another post, someone made the comment about selling the airwaves. The FCC did not own the airwaves that it sold to kick out all of the TV broadcaster and made them move to digital. The citizens of the US owned the airwaves and the FCC had zero rights to them.

Wayner

doug s. · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 10:05 pm »

wayner, i never said all is well in the broadcast industry. i yust said that fm radio will be around longer than any one of us posting here on this forum today. big difference.

if there's stations in your area that you like, and that broadcast a quality signal, then you should inwest in a good tuna, imo. this doesn't mean you have to spend an arm and a leg, tho. (of course you can if you want - for the right price, i could be conwinced to part w/my refurb'd modded sansui tu-x1.

) anyway, there's many tunas for $200 or less, some even less than $100, that will get you excellent sound.

doug s.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 10:06 pm »

What's going to happen to the TV channels? I figured someone would have jumped on it by now, but there's only static in my area.

Man, I'd love to fire up the old Sansui again, but there's not much worth listening to over here unless you like commercials and pre-teen music. And yeah, the classic rock station plays mp3s.

Quote from: Brett Buck on 17 Nov 2009, 08:27 pm

Functionally, the interference issues are just getting worse and worse, and I have given up on FM because it's impossible to get decent reception regardless of the tuner used.

Yeah, it seems to be getting worse all the time doesn't it? I used to be able to get along with just a wire hanging off the back of the tuner. Those days are over.

Wayner · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 10:33 pm »

I have a big roof-top ChannelMaster antenna that goes into super deep fringe. I think I can safely say that the FM band is filled with stations, for now. I think everything falls on the good old bell curve when it comes to quantity/quality of broadcast here in Minnesota. I'd say there are about 5 or 6 good stations with reasonable programming, the rest suck in oh so many different ways. I just think with a stinky economy, we are going to see lots of these stations disappear. Perhaps, that is when WAYNER radio starts up. ALL vinyl, all the time!!!!!!! How much does a hopeless station cost, and anyone for a partnership?

aa

jazzcourier · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 10:40 pm »

FWIW....having worked for NPR and having known many prominent NPR producers and personalities,i can guarantee you that there is no "government" footprint on any of the arts and music programming.The success of NPR shows are determined by the affiliate who picks up the satellite feed of the program,and inevitably will have to determine the "viability" of the program when they fund raise around it,that will determine the fate and eventually the taste of the audience-will they support it.We ALL pay for advertising every time we buy a product,it is filtered into the price of the product and is reflected in what inevitably you pay for it.I know it sounds extreme to some,but why can't we have a medium that is untouched by commercialism and bows to the whims of advertisers and caters to the taste of the people who will support it? In the last ten years we have seen the ugly specter of the "broadcast endorsement" creep into public broadcasting-soft sell commercials made for this market.Can anyone say that this has elevated the quality of non commercial fm radio? I dare say no,it is a matter of survival,just look at those Lexus ads on "public" tv,they are not fooling anyone and the quality of PBS is at an all time low! NPR,like PBS is desperate for money and the amount of original productions has been reduced drastically,regardless of who pays to endorse it.The money is just not there! I think the tone of this thread would be better served if people supported the local shows they like,and i want to hear from the people that ponied up at fund drive time! As an old public radio fund raiser i am an expert at driving the bloodmobile right up next to the rock quarry,i venture to say i might be able to rattle some schillings out of these most recalcitrant in our midst!

S Clark · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 10:41 pm »

Find Terlingua, TX on Google earth to locate the one truly public radio that I know of. The town has maybe 50 inhabitants, 3 bars, a general store, and a radio station that is so small that even the FCC doesn't bother to track it down- they have no license. The broad cast will reach about 10 miles across the desert, they have a series of stacked 300 cd Sony players, and various folks will come by to program it. I even took my turn at it after a few beers, mixing in Beethoven's 9th, Loudin Wainright III, Lyle Lovette, and the Light Crust Dough Boys. They have a really interesting selection at 100.1 KYOTE radio!

Of course they have rules. The ladies have insisted... no F word.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 11:08 pm »

Besides programming and radio stations, one needs to see where the manufacturers are moving along with the plentiful choices that were once to be had in terms of the tuna market, as far as I can tell, Magnun Dynalab is still cranking their wares, and even the shoebox shop of 47 Labs have this one out there....

I have hope for FM radio, I live in NYC.

konut · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 11:18 pm »

Of course FM is on its way to the graveyard. EVERYTHING is on its way to the graveyard. You will know this, on date certain, when they stop including FM radios in cars.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 11:25 pm »

I used to support our public radio station year after year, even when I could barely afford to. One year they decided that I would be better off listening to talk of the nation and all of that other yakity-yak chit-chat stuff instead of the great jazz music they used to provide. Talk talk talk for 15 hours of the day or more. A little music thrown your way after 7pm. Weekends were worse.

They keep sending me reminder statements asking for money. They have the nerve to say "We know you're listening and you should pay for the service that is so important to you". They're so clueless.

wgallupe · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 11:35 pm »

FM is still very much alive with lots of choices readily accessible in my area. Living on a hill in Central Massachusetts, I can point my attic mounted antenna with rotator to the East for Boston stations, South for Providence, RI, North for Nashua/Manchester, NH and West for Amherst, MA (UMASS). I know I'm lucky to be in this situation. Hope it lasts...