[Browntrout]

My walls are all built with 16" spaced studs, and like I said, I'm not worried about inner wall isolation, so the addition of the second wall is not needed.

So, I should install fiberglass insulation on the inner wall, and 2x 5/8" drywall on all walls and ceiling?

As for adding an extra or isolated ground rod.... that is a very bad suggestion and whoever your electrician and electrical Inspector is, they should be reprimanded...this is a very dangerous practice and against code.
How do I know? I have been a Journeyman electrician for over 20 years, IBEW local 112.

For electrical, I will be adding an isolation transformer to power all audio circuits.

I thank everyone for the suggestions so far, and if there are more, please add them, I'm all ears   

Rick

The use of additional or separate grounding for a stereo is pretty common practice and as far as I am aware does not break any regulations.
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?src=google&lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=1201&customer_id=PAA1006117109947EBSDYYKUQTMGTMGM

[MaxCast]

I installed a 12"x7"x18.5' LVL that spans the area where the wall/archway once was. I cut the ceiling joists so that the LVL would fit into them and up against the floor above, making it even stronger.

I am trying to visualize the Italic sentence...so you notched out about 50% of the vertical dimension of the support beam at each ceiling joist? And how many floors are there above this?

I didn't get this at frist either. 

[rich121]

Just because someone tells you it's ok to use...and this same person is making money from you in the process... you think it's ok?
Your very nieve, and dangerously ignorant.

This is a violation in so many ways....read article 250 in the NEC...

Anyone that would use this product is putting themselves and others in danger.


Rick

My walls are all built with 16" spaced studs, and like I said, I'm not worried about inner wall isolation, so the addition of the second wall is not needed.

So, I should install fiberglass insulation on the inner wall, and 2x 5/8" drywall on all walls and ceiling?

As for adding an extra or isolated ground rod.... that is a very bad suggestion and whoever your electrician and electrical Inspector is, they should be reprimanded...this is a very dangerous practice and against code.
How do I know? I have been a Journeyman electrician for over 20 years, IBEW local 112.

For electrical, I will be adding an isolation transformer to power all audio circuits.

I thank everyone for the suggestions so far, and if there are more, please add them, I'm all ears   

Rick

The use of additional or separate grounding for a stereo is pretty common practice and as far as I am aware does not break any regulations.
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?src=google&lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=1201&customer_id=PAA1006117109947EBSDYYKUQTMGTMGM

[rich121]

Rick,

OK, so now I understand the structural comments.  Having the 18.5 inch deep laminated beam (LVL for the straights here) hanging down 12.5 inches below the 2x6's across the middle of the ceiling is a bit of a drag, but unavoidable.


BTW hospital isolated grounds were only used in anesthetizing (and rarely intensive care) locations due to the prevalent use of oxygen.  The grave concerns for explosion also had other safeguards added in operating and delivery rooms including conductive flooring, shoe cover prohibitions, special venting of the rooms, those round/green grounding plugs, and warning signs before entering the suite.  Fortunately anesthetics have come a long way since 1976 when they quickly were replaced in hospitals. 

Some still use isolating grounding to drain current leakage from equipment in the operating rooms away from patient's heart muscles that could cause heart attack.  Better surgical equipment build standards have reduced this concern and nowadays the primarily leakage comes from all the documentation equipment and the cheap stereos brought into the rooms.  Dropping the requirement for isolated grounding allowed savings of $25,000 per panel and the option to have power from both the normal and critical branches fed to the rooms, so you don't have to fully rely on the emergency transfer switch to work.

And with the improved telemetry equipment, concerns related to cell phones use in hospitals have all but gone away in the past 5 years.  Cell phones were never a problem with surgical equipment (patient monitoring in recovery yes, but not in the operating or delivery rooms).

So have fun with the room, but do try to eliminate those even ratio room dimensions and take care of the doors/windows.  Look at the Cardas website.  You have the space, you might even want to consider installing extra/interior skewed walls as Cardas shows.  (This could also take care of the door/window issues.)

Please tell me honestly what kind of work you do?
 Just how do you get:

"OK, so now I understand the structural comments.  Having the 18.5 inch deep laminated beam (LVL for the straights here) hanging down 12.5 inches below the 2x6's across the middle of the ceiling is a bit of a drag, but unavoidable"

From my post????? Do you use drugs or what????

And, for the last time, isolated receptacles have nothing to do with hazardous locations, ok? They are NOT RATED for ANY HAZARDOUS CLASSIFICATIONS ok?
In Hospital areas in which you speak, you must use Class I, Group C listed receptacles...know what those look like????

Just for your benefit, look up Article 517 in the NEC (Health Care Facilities)

In 517.16 "Receptacles with Insulated Grounding Terminals" states: "Receptacles with insulated grounding terminals, as permitted in 250.146(D), shall be identified; such identification shall be visiable after installation"

Article 250 (Grounding and Bonding)

In 250.146(D) "Isolated Receptacles"
"Where installed for the reduction of electrical noise (electromagnetic interference) on the grounding circuite, a receptacle in which the grounding terminal is purposely insulated from the receptacle mounting means shall be permitted. The receptacle grounding terminal shall be connected to an insulated equipment grounding conductor run with the circuit conductors.

It says nothing about Hazardous gas or any such thing, because it never would...
You would not put a receptacle that for one, is not physically designed for Class I Group C spaces, but, a receptacle that has an isolated/insulated ground, that does not bond to anything until it reaches the panel, has a potential difference in voltage between the isolated ground and any other grounded parts, as the other parts are bonded to different systems and have a different impedence...thus making an ignition much more readily possible.

To others... I'm sorry for sounding so rude, but it really upsets me when people spout off such untrue statements.

Rick

[mjosef]

As from the measurements given, the ceiling joists are perpendicular to the header, as they only can be, they were cut to allow the header to be installed within, up to the bottom of the floor above, for added strength, and to hide half the thickness in the ceiling. The joists are attached to the header with joist hangers.

Ok, now I get the picture.
Thanks for the precise explanation.

Now I go stand in the  line.   

[rich121]

I thought I made it clear, but for those who couldn't understand my dimensions, I hope they are clear now... I did add more information.

I do appreciate the help you guys have given...I have more to think about now..


Rick

As from the measurements given, the ceiling joists are perpendicular to the header, as they only can be, they were cut to allow the header to be installed within, up to the bottom of the floor above, for added strength, and to hide half the thickness in the ceiling. The joists are attached to the header with joist hangers.

Ok, now I get the picture.
Thanks for the precise explanation.

Now I go stand in the  line.   

[Browntrout]

Just because someone tells you it's ok to use...and this same person is making money from you in the process... you think it's ok?
Your very nieve, and dangerously ignorant.

This is a violation in so many ways....read article 250 in the NEC...

Anyone that would use this product is putting themselves and others in danger.


Rick

My walls are all built with 16" spaced studs, and like I said, I'm not worried about inner wall isolation, so the addition of the second wall is not needed.

So, I should install fiberglass insulation on the inner wall, and 2x 5/8" drywall on all walls and ceiling?

As for adding an extra or isolated ground rod.... that is a very bad suggestion and whoever your electrician and electrical Inspector is, they should be reprimanded...this is a very dangerous practice and against code.
How do I know? I have been a Journeyman electrician for over 20 years, IBEW local 112.

For electrical, I will be adding an isolation transformer to power all audio circuits.

I thank everyone for the suggestions so far, and if there are more, please add them, I'm all ears   

Rick

The use of additional or separate grounding for a stereo is pretty common practice and as far as I am aware does not break any regulations.
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?src=google&lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=1201&customer_id=PAA1006117109947EBSDYYKUQTMGTMGM

I think we will have to disagree on this one. It would be nice if you could tell me how having a seperate ground for a stereo is dangerous and/or breaks regulations though as I can't genuinely see how it can be. I don't have access to the article you reffered to so could you link/quote it?

[JLM]

Rick,

Plz take a pill.  (I'm just trying to extrapolate from your structural descriptions.)

BTW I'm a licensed engineer, did structural for 8 eight years and have worked around healthcare for the past 20 years.  In the past 5 years have been in charge of updating construction codes for healthcare.

You're right about one thing, there are a lot of electrical guys who think they know it all.  At least I state what I know and admit to not knowing it all.

[brother love]

Your very nieve, and dangerously ignorant.

Your statement is oxymoronic. "You're very naive." 

[youngho]

Hi, getting back to your original post:

1. What are some of your priorities in terms of you consider to be "best" in terms of sound? I surmise from your use of time coherent speakers with true subwoofers that you particularly value direct sound and pinpoint localization (a "tight" image) at the possible expense of "ambience" and spaciousness but that you're also looking for smooth and extended bass. I wonder whether many time coherent speakers may particularly benefit from absorption of first reflections because of off-axis response (many have relatively poor off-axis response) and the loss of coherence that early reflections cause. The only measurements I could find for any Green Mountain speakers were for one pair from 15 years ago.

2. In terms of the room, what other sorts of things will go into it, are there any windows, how many listeners will there be, and will it be used for anything else (like video or multichannel down the line)? It sounds like this may be a dedicated, private, one-chair listening room.

3. Can you do any basic measurements? Knowing some acoustic information about your "shell" can help you get started in terms of looking at specific areas for improvement, particularly in the bass.

Even if you're not going to be able to hire professionals at this time, you might start by just taking a look at some of their approaches to listening room construction (the first two were from studs up):

Terry Montlick's design for the Music Vault and other projects at http://www.softwaredesign.com/showcase.html
Rives' design for Mike Lavigne's room at http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm
The Walters-Storyk Design Group at http://www.wsdg.com/default.asp
Keith Yates at http://www.keithyates.com/

You'll see some recurring themes and elements, and it sounds like you'd be able to construct many of these things yourself, like a louvred ceiling (also at http://www.avguide.com/blog/robert-harley-visits-transparent-audio?and-discovers-210-miracle-upgrade). Polycylindrical diffusors should be simple for you, and you may wish to look into making some QRDs. Here is an extreme approach of this: http://www.studiovisa.com/blackbird/default2.asp?file=studioc&name=Studio%20C.

Young-Ho

[ctviggen]

My walls are all built with 16" spaced studs, and like I said, I'm not worried about inner wall isolation, so the addition of the second wall is not needed.

So, I should install fiberglass insulation on the inner wall, and 2x 5/8" drywall on all walls and ceiling?

As for adding an extra or isolated ground rod.... that is a very bad suggestion and whoever your electrician and electrical Inspector is, they should be reprimanded...this is a very dangerous practice and against code.
How do I know? I have been a Journeyman electrician for over 20 years, IBEW local 112.

For electrical, I will be adding an isolation transformer to power all audio circuits.

I thank everyone for the suggestions so far, and if there are more, please add them, I'm all ears   

Rick

The use of additional or separate grounding for a stereo is pretty common practice and as far as I am aware does not break any regulations.
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?src=google&lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=1201&customer_id=PAA1006117109947EBSDYYKUQTMGTMGM

I'm not sure that this is a "common" practice, and personally, I think it provides little to no benefit.  On the other hand, I think that as long as this separate ground rod is bonded to the house/earth ground with properly sized copper wire, I don't think it's dangerous.

In my system, I'm about to install hospital grade, isolated ground outlets using EMT and 10 gauge THHN wires.

[rich121]

I think we will have to disagree on this one. It would be nice if you could tell me how having a seperate ground for a stereo is dangerous and/or breaks regulations though as I can't genuinely see how it can be. I don't have access to the article you reffered to so could you link/quote it?
[/quote]

My point exactly...
Call you local Electrical inspector...


Rick

[rich121]

Your very nieve, and dangerously ignorant.

Your statement is oxymoronic. "You're very naive."

 
How?

[rich121]

Rick,

Plz take a pill.  (I'm just trying to extrapolate from your structural descriptions.)

BTW I'm a licensed engineer, did structural for 8 eight years and have worked around healthcare for the past 20 years.  In the past 5 years have been in charge of updating construction codes for healthcare.

You're right about one thing, there are a lot of electrical guys who think they know it all.  At least I state what I know and admit to not knowing it all.

"updating construction codes for healthcare"

how is that?

[rich121]

Rick,

Plz take a pill.  (I'm just trying to extrapolate from your structural descriptions.)

BTW I'm a licensed engineer, did structural for 8 eight years and have worked around healthcare for the past 20 years.  In the past 5 years have been in charge of updating construction codes for healthcare.

You're right about one thing, there are a lot of electrical guys who think they know it all.  At least I state what I know and admit to not knowing it all.

I am an electrician that uses the NEC everyday in my work, yes, I know alot about it, unlike you, who makes false statements in a trade you obviously know very very little about.
I showed you were wrong in your statements by providing Code reference, you on the other hand, do not admit to not knowing.
I'm quite sure that you don't have much capacity or authority in any "in charge of updating construction codes for Healthcare". These things are done by boards at the State and Federal level

Rick

[youngho]

Okay, guys, calm down, please. Maybe everyone can take a deep breath and refresh their memory by looking at http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71021.0

I can't see how anything constructive is going to come out of discussing the electrical issue further, so maybe you can let it be? Otherwise, I suspect this thread will get locked or sent to the Waste Bin.

[Christof]

I had very pleasing results by framing a alternating stud walls in my lofts.  We used 2x6 plates with 2x4 studs...on each side of the wall the framing is 24" OC with opposing sides staggered 12".  I wove unbacked fiberglass insulation horizontally between the studs and hung 2 layers 5/8 type x rock on wall.  There is quite a difference between the walls we framed this way and the traditionally framed walls in my my place in terms of sound going through the walls.   I have one section of wall which is stagger framed but not insulated and the sound goes through almost the same as the normal 2x4 walls, telling me the woven/compressed fiberglass insulation is quite important.

I'm with youngho...the tone of this thread needs to cheer up a bit

[ctviggen]

Supposedly, you don't want to compress the insulation.  Compression hurts acoustic and insulation performance, though of course only acoustic performance is important for this application.  This is also why you get slightly better results for insulation that's placed parallel to the studs and not woven through the studs. 

[Coytee]

Rick, I don't know the dimensions and don't know if you could incorporate it in your situation but...  I'm have the understanding that if you could splay your walls some, you would help mimimize some (negative) sound issues.

Your front would be more narrow than the rear at a rate of (for example) 6" for every 10 feet or something like that.

Don't take my numbers and cringe...  I do not know the numbers, just trying to give you the concept.  Parallel walls only help to bounce sound back/forth.  If they are splayed outwards, then the sound dissapate better. 


Seems you're stuck with your ceiling height.  Good luck with your project...  I'm in process of starting mine (currently unfinished basement room)

[rich121]

ok, since I don't have much problem with the sound bothering others in the home, and I will be installing 1" spray-in foam plus 5 1/2" fiberglass insulation on the outside walls (I have exactly 6 1/4" thick walls, so fiberglass will only be barely compressed), I'm thinking that should be enough for that.
I am debating on the sheetrock issue, whether to use a single layer or double layer.
I am also up in the air what to do with the ceiling, as one poster commented on using rock wool and some sort of outer cover?


Rick