Reviewing The Reviewers

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James Tanner

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Reviewing The Reviewers
« on: 30 Oct 2009, 04:42 pm »
Hi All

One question I have been meaning to ask many of you is how you feel about reviews and reviewers in general.

Do magazines like Stereophile and Absolute Sound still sway your decisions or do you place more credence in 'user reviews'?

james

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #1 on: 30 Oct 2009, 05:03 pm »
Personally i put more  credence in 'user reviews' then Mag reviews.Mag reviews for the most part seem to "Polished" not to mention that a mag reviewer who has a brand of gear for only 2 weeks to a month....can hardly give a full experience with the product.However if a user review has had the product for over a year or so and did a review.....break in period is over and so forth and the user reviewer is not working for a mag that the brand of gear may pay to do ad's in.........well.......can you see where i am going with this?Its almost as if Mag reviewers just re-hash the same things that have been said in other mags............Mag reviews remind me of a listening to a demo in a store for 30 mins and thinking it sounds good,but when you take it home......the sound totally changes in a negative way...........Time is everything with a brand of gear and usually Mags dont spend enough time over all to give the gear full justice(on the average)

Laundrew

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #2 on: 30 Oct 2009, 05:12 pm »
I am always sceptical to professional audio reviews. I cannot remember reading a very bad review of any audio product. It would seem that some reviewers hide their true opinions in "double speak." For example - this is the best "audio component" that this company has produced. They are not comparing the product under review to other manufacturers products.

I only like the audio magazines for showing new products - and I only purchase these magazines once or twice per year.

I have always wondered if a reviewer would give a poor rating on a product when their magazine is receiving advertising revenue from the company in question. As for a private review, I would place a little more faith in what an individual had to say about their purchase.

At the end of the day - audition the equipment and let your own ears decide for you.

Be well?

Tyson

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #3 on: 30 Oct 2009, 05:12 pm »
User reviews - mainly because their systems are more stable.  Pro reviewers tend to have a system in pretty constant flux, making it more difficult to pinpoint a specific change and attribute it to one (of many) new pieces of equipment. 

James Tanner

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #4 on: 30 Oct 2009, 05:21 pm »
What about the fact that the reviewer has been exposed to many different products over many years so he or she has a lot more expertice and training as to what to listen for?

james

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #5 on: 30 Oct 2009, 06:20 pm »
I bought my first 4Bsst after reading a stereophile review claiming nothing beats it at any price. Even though i was happy with my Blue circle amp. Cant remember the reviewer's name though,he was a hi -profile reviewer.

Laundrew

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #6 on: 30 Oct 2009, 06:21 pm »
What about the fact that the reviewer has been exposed to many different products over many years so he or she has a lot more expertice and training as to what to listen for?

james

I still believe you will experience more bias from an individual who is in the audio business compared to one whom is not. I remember reading an "all roses" review about a manufacturer and when I auditioned their equipment, I was very disappointed with its performance - to say the least.

Be well...

danman

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #7 on: 30 Oct 2009, 06:28 pm »
What about the fact that the reviewer has been exposed to many different products over many years so he or she has a lot more expertice and training as to what to listen for?

james

I have always had a hard time with this as they don't really know what I am looking for!

Yes, a good review may pick my curiousity but I chose Bryston after a freak listening at an outdoor event during Formula 1 in Montreal about 3 years ago! As I mentioned previously in a past comment, there was a huge rack of Bryston amps powering an incredible amount of JBL speakers (don't know which ones) that sounded like nothing else I have ever heard outdoors!

As you know from my bio, I use Martin Logan speakers which is not the common rule here or other sites but nothing has come close to making better sound than my 4BSST2!

I also agree that user reviews have a big impact on me because 99% are from ordinary people which most of us are and not so called "audiophiles" however you want to define that term! I have always been skeptical of people who tend to listen more to equipment than the musical sound which most reviewers look for! They often use unrealistic terms that most people don't comprehend in the first place!

Gary Listen

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #8 on: 30 Oct 2009, 06:29 pm »
I agree with Laundrew, I subscribe to Stereophile and The Absolute Sound primarily to keep up with new products.

However, I also think that reviewers have the benefit of being exposed to substantially more and different products. We have no high-end audio dealers left in my area (Oklahoma City), thus it is impossible to audition products without traveling a great distance. Without a real reference point, other than the sound of my own system before changing something out, I am not in a position to offer an opinion that would be of much value to anyone else.

While I might not give much weight to a particular review in Stereophile or The Absolute Sound, I do find it interesting to check out the associated equipment used in reviewing the product. When I see a product remain in a reviewer's associated equipment list for a long period of time, or when I see the same product listed in the associated equipment list of numerous reviewers, I become very interested in that product.

I also have more respect for some reviewers than others. You really have to get a feel for the type of product a particular reviewer likes.


Laundrew

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #9 on: 30 Oct 2009, 06:36 pm »
What about the fact that the reviewer has been exposed to many different products over many years so he or she has a lot more expertice and training as to what to listen for?

james

I have always had a hard time with this as they don't really know what I am looking for!

Yes, a good review may pick my curiousity but I chose Bryston after a freak listening at an outdoor event during Formula 1 in Montreal about 3 years ago! As I mentioned previously in a past comment, there was a huge rack of Bryston amps powering an incredible amount of JBL speakers (don't know which ones) that sounded like nothing else I have ever heard outdoors!

As you know from my bio, I use Martin Logan speakers which is not the common rule here or other sites but nothing has come close to making better sound than my 4BSST2!

I also agree that user reviews have a big impact on me because 99% are from ordinary people which most of us are and not so called "audiophiles" however you want to define that term! I have always been skeptical of people who tend to listen more to equipment than the musical sound which most reviewers look for! They often use unrealistic terms that most people don't comprehend in the first place!

Well said danman :thumb:

Viajero5000

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #10 on: 30 Oct 2009, 06:53 pm »
When i first got into this hobby a few years ago, i took these reviews very seriously, making purchasing decisions based on them. Unfortunately I discovered that such reviews are generally seriously overhyped, and the actual product is normally nowhere as close to the rosy picture of perfection painted by the reviewer.  The other thing i soon noticed was that every new product that these guys review seems to be their new reference, until they review the next product, when it turns out that the previous piece actually had several flaws that the new gear has magically revealed, and so continues this cycle in perpetuity. Finally, a famous UK magazine for example has a star rating system, and getting five stars seems really impressive until you note that the lowest rating of any reviewed equipment doesn't fall below four stars!
I haven't found user reviews on forums to be of much use either, as there seem to be as many different points of view on a piece of kit as there are armchair reviewers. 

What I have found is that to put together a good system, you need to audition the equipment first, and assemble components that work synergistically with each other. I don't really understand how easily people issue absolute statements (e.g. this amp is thin sounding or that cdp is rubbish) without  having set them up properly or tried them with components they're designed to work with.

So at the end of the day, the primary benefit that reviews provide me is the feel good factor (especially when I see Bryston gear being well reviewed  :thumb:), and some entertaining reading to be taken with a pinch of salt.  The only time I would take a review seriously is if it is actually negative... that is a rare occurrence, so worth investigating. Reviews are definitely excellent sources of publicity though! 

James Tanner

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #11 on: 30 Oct 2009, 06:59 pm »
^
Ok that's interesting - lets say Bryston got a bad review - would that bum you out?

james

Zero

Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #12 on: 30 Oct 2009, 07:55 pm »
Disclaimer:  I'm a part time volunteer writer.

Yet even as a writer, I would never encourage anyone to part with their cash based merely off of one strangers review.  Even if the reviewer does a bang up job of describing the products native performance and elaborating it in a way that will give you an idea of how that product will perform under a wide array of rooms and electronics, there is still no guarantee that the product will work for you. Plus, it's hard to gauge whether the reviewer was 'spot on' or not without having experienced the product thoroughly for yourself.  Still, unless you have the luxury of having a dealer near you that A) stocks the product you're interested in, and then B) has it set up properly and is willing to give you a solid demo of that product, then the odds are likely that you will have to place some sort of value on professional reviews and user opinions as they will be the only resource available to you. Sure, 'hearing it for yourself' is the best way to go, but most enthusiasts are not fortunate enough to live an area where there is an abundant myriad of dealers to demo gear at. Thankfully though, there is the internet.

Without the net', there'd be no forums for us audio nuts to commune at.  Nearly all of the manufacturers here at Audio Circle would not exist, and there?d be no such thing as webzines. Thankfully, it's all here and we are all the better for it. The only problem is that the audio business has, in my opinion, reached a point of high saturation. The audiophile consumer base is a small pond to fish from, and there are lots of manufacturers making lots of stuff for it. Most of that stuff is pretty good. Subsequently, there are lots of webzine and print publications that review this stuff. Because the stuff is usually pretty good, most of the reviews and general feedback is positive. The unfortunate byproduct of this saturation is that when you are hunting for information around the web, you will start to notice that everything begins to read the same. One man's conclusion on a product is practically the same as another man's conclusion on a similar, albeit different branded product. It creates a sense of redundancy, and it is something that can be particularly frustrating for the person who is starting off and really has no clue what type of sound they are after.  There is no question that all of these things, plus the ever present fear of unethical business practices between the publications and manufacturers has damaged the credibility of independent professional product reviews. In my opinion, some of that criticism is well deserved.

However, contrary to what some people love to believe, most reviewers (who are volunteers) that I've come across strive to write the most accurate and most honest analysis they can muster.  Although there are certainly a number of bad apples in every bunch, I've found that the majority of folks up who pick up the pen and write about audio gear remain unaffected by the influence of advertising revenues and all the other hogwash I read here and elsewhere.  Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, and I'm not saying that it hasn't happened on a grand scale *cough* TAS *cough*.  However, most reviews are legit, and if their review did a good enough job at describing the products general character, what it does well, and what it doesn't do so well, than their review can still serve as an excellent tool that can be useful to lots of different people.  So, should skepticism be given to any review? Certainly. Should anyone go out and make a blind purchase based off of a review? Not in my opinion. But can a review still serve its purpose in both hipping you to a products existence and telling you what it?s all about? *IF* the reviewer actually did a good job? then absolutely. 

moremoremore

Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #13 on: 30 Oct 2009, 08:10 pm »
Here was something I was thinking about yesterday, as it happens: what's really going on when a reviewer says, "It was so good, I ended up buying it myself!"  For how much? I wonder.

Zero

Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #14 on: 30 Oct 2009, 08:15 pm »
Well moremoremore,

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed out the rear for saying this, as it smacks the face of "professional journalism"...  but let me put it this way..  look on audiogon. You'll probably find a better deal there, especially these days. AND you won't have a 12 month contract to sign either... 

Viajero5000

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #15 on: 30 Oct 2009, 08:54 pm »
^
Ok that's interesting - lets say Bryston got a bad review - would that bum you out?

james

It wouldn't feel the best, but, given my knowledge of the company, one bad review certainly wouldn't impact my decisions (I'm pretty sure every Bryston component I own must have received one negative review by someone or the other). However, if it were an unknown company, then yes, a bad review would definitely be taken into consideration; in unknown territory, one has to work off whatever info is available.  Also, if Bryston suddenly started receiving bad press across the board, I would of course look into it in greater detail.

I think it was you James who once said something along the lines that positive reviews help make us feel secure and cozy about our collective purchasing decisions....  :green: i think you stated it like it is!

Sasha

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #16 on: 30 Oct 2009, 10:01 pm »
I would trust only those reviews that include measurements, and I would pay attention to the measurements part of the review, for the purpose of composing a list of components from which I would select the component based on listening.

James Tanner

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #17 on: 30 Oct 2009, 10:20 pm »
I would trust only those reviews that include measurements, and I would pay attention to the measurements part of the review, for the purpose of composing a list of components from which I would select the component based on listening.

Hi Sasha

That's a really good point.  A lot of reviewers think the measurements are meaningless and I know we have had poor reviews in the past even though the measurements are suberb.

james

Laundrew

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #18 on: 30 Oct 2009, 10:30 pm »
^
Ok that's interesting - lets say Bryston got a bad review - would that bum you out?

james

Interesting question...

I would be indifferent to a poor review with respect to Bryston components or any other manufacturer. As I mentioned earlier, magazines are fine for showcasing new products, but in the great scheme of things, the reviews carry very little credence. Next year, I will be putting a JBL/Bryston system together for my wife and I will not base any purchasing decisions with respect to any audio magazine reviews.

What does Bryston do if it receives a poor product review from an audio magazine?

Post scriptum

At one time, I remember that you could purchase audio magazines at any store that sold magazines. Now, I can only find these audio magazines at a local "Big Box" booksotre - can this be the beginning of the end for these publications also :scratch: 

Be well?
 

James Tanner

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Re: Reviewing The Reviewers
« Reply #19 on: 30 Oct 2009, 10:55 pm »
Hi laundrew,

There are many people saying that print magazines are on their way out or at least a major house cleaning.

I'm an old guy so I still like the hard copy of my music as well as my reading material but I realize the 'times they are a changing'

james