Trying bass trapping before ordering from RealTraps or GIK

bmckenney · « **on:** 8 Oct 2009, 07:32 pm »

I'm interested in trying a pseudo DIY bass trap experiment in my room before ordering actual professionally made products to get some idea of what I can expect. I don't really want DIY because it won't look as good as what I can buy.

I was looking at this DIY project and was thinking of getting some 10" pipe insulation, sealing it off with caps and doing the diffuse and absorb paper jacket thing, without doing fabrics or finishing work. When I'm done I'd probably give the items away locally if someone wanted it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040603025911/ic.net/~jtgale/diy2.htm

It would cost me $50 for two 3' foot pieces so before I do this I'd like to know if it would be worth it. I'd basically be interested in corner bass trapping with GIK Pillars and/or Tri-Traps, or Real Traps Mega Traps, in shorter lengths/heights - not going all out floor to ceiling.

Would this be a good, meaningful experiment?

Thanks,
Bryan

Glenn Kuras · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 01:13 pm »

It will work but I would also stuff the inside with fluffy fiberglass. Just a note, a round shape really has no benefit over flat or squ. It is all about the over all coverage on the face.
If you just want to experiment and not spend a bunch of money then got to Lowes or Home Depot and buy some fluffy fiberglass in bags. Take the bags and stack them floor to ceiling in corners. Will look kind of ghetto but will work.

jtwrace · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 01:20 pm »

Quote from: Glenn Kuras on 9 Oct 2009, 01:13 pm

Take the bags and stack them floor to ceiling in corners. Will look kind of ghetto but will work.

...and cover them with some fabric and whalla, you can look at them for a few months as you're deciding. Or just order the Elite Bass Traps and be done. I promise you will like them.

(yes, i use them)

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 01:35 pm »

You could buy several rolls of "the pink stuff" stacked in the corners from floor to ceiling. Leave them covered in their plastic wrapping so that when you're finished with the experiment, you could take them back for a full refund.
Wouldn't cost you a dime.

Would that work?

Bob

bmckenney · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 01:46 pm »

Quote from: Glenn Kuras on 9 Oct 2009, 01:13 pm

It will work but I would also stuff the inside with fluffy fiberglass. Just a note, a round shape really has no benefit over flat or squ. It is all about the over all coverage on the face.
If you just want to experiment and not spend a bunch of money then got to Lowes or Home Depot and buy some fluffy fiberglass in bags. Take the bags and stack them floor to ceiling in corners. Will look kind of ghetto but will work.

Thanks Glenn. That's way better. I'll just buy some bags of fiberglass. The typical big bags of pink fiberglass that is used in houses. And then I can return it when I'm done my experiment. Much less work, less expensive and probably quite effective too.

arthurs · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 01:54 pm »

If you happen to be in Dallas/Fort Worth, I have several of the 18" diameter pipe covers already stuffed with mineral wool. I'm remodeling my room right now, and have plenty of my old ones, even covered in fabric already, if you'd like to check some out.

bluemike · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 01:59 pm »

Hey Art
You're present room is "da bomb" and you're remodelling !!!

Man, I can only imagine what the finished product will look like

Keep us updated on the progress
Pat

arthurs · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 02:17 pm »

Will do Pat, we ended up "gutting" the room and hiring an acoustic engineer, so we're pretty excited about where we're headed, both sonically and visually! Pics and all when we're finished!

P.S. We hired a gentleman named Jeff Hedback of Hedback Designed Acoustics (out of the Indianapolis area) and although we aren't done so I haven't heard the room yet, I am very optimisitc based on early progress and cannot say enough about Jeff, the quality of his work, and what a terrific guy he has been to work with, highly recommended if you have a project of this nature.

bdiament · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 08:03 pm »

Hi Bryan,

Quote from: bmckenney on 8 Oct 2009, 07:32 pm

I'm interested in trying a pseudo DIY bass trap experiment in my room before ordering actual professionally made products to get some idea of what I can expect. I don't really want DIY because it won't look as good as what I can buy.

I was looking at this DIY project and was thinking of getting some 10" pipe insulation, sealing it off with caps and doing the diffuse and absorb paper jacket thing, without doing fabrics or finishing work. When I'm done I'd probably give the items away locally if someone wanted it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040603025911/ic.net/~jtgale/diy2.htm

It would cost me $50 for two 3' foot pieces so before I do this I'd like to know if it would be worth it. I'd basically be interested in corner bass trapping with GIK Pillars and/or Tri-Traps, or Real Traps Mega Traps, in shorter lengths/heights - not going all out floor to ceiling.

Would this be a good, meaningful experiment?

Thanks,
Bryan

Those aren't "pseudo DIY bass traps", they're quite real. ;-}

I've used a slightly modified version of this recipe to outfit my own studio (see photo on BDA home page at http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com ) as well as a client's studio I designed.

I'd suggest plywood for the end circles instead of sheetrock.
(And I would not fill the columns.)

An important thing to remember is that to really control the room's resonant modes where they count (from ~300Hz down), you need a lot of cylinders and they should take the form of columns at least 6' tall (ideally floor to ceiling but 6' works fine).

A single pair is not very different from throwing the proverbial bean into a lion's mouth. I would suggest 8 16" diameter columns (insultation for 14" pipes) as a start, with one column in each corner and one at the midpoint of each wall. This will address the fundamentals and their first harmonic. I usually add a 9" diameter column (insulation for 7" pipes) between each of the 16" columns, to address the second harmonics.

I'd also suggest aiming the "dead" side toward the nearest speaker, except for the columns on the wall behind the listening position, which should have their dead side aimed at the listening position. For columns in the center of the front and back walls, aim the dead side toward the center of the room. This will keep the "live", diffusive side for the later reflections, which is where diffusion works best, to keep the room ambience "alive", without harming the direct sound coming from speakers.

For a few more photos, see
http://www.swordinthestonerecords.com/totw/photos.html
Click on a photo for a larger view.

For something to read, which I hope will help, see:
http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

TRM · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 08:15 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 9 Oct 2009, 01:20 pm

Quote from: Glenn Kuras on 9 Oct 2009, 01:13 pm
Take the bags and stack them floor to ceiling in corners. Will look kind of ghetto but will work.

...and cover them with some fabric and whalla, you can look at them for a few months as you're deciding.

that's what I did last weekend. Bought some laundry duffle bags, put the rolls in the bags and put them in the corners.

bmckenney · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 08:50 pm »

Well, I picked up two bags of R12 and put them in the corners on the front wall (behind speakers). They are I guess the typical sized bags, about 4 feet tall containing 18 pieces 2 inches thick. So no I"m not floor to ceiling but that wasn't my intention if I go with GIK or Real Traps bass traps. I'm disappointed that I'm not hearing that big of a difference. Sorry, I'm not doing any before and after measurements because I don't have even an SPL meter. Any suggestions?

bmckenney · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 11:09 pm »

Quote from: Glenn Kuras on 9 Oct 2009, 01:13 pm

It will work but I would also stuff the inside with fluffy fiberglass. Just a note, a round shape really has no benefit over flat or squ. It is all about the over all coverage on the face.
If you just want to experiment and not spend a bunch of money then got to Lowes or Home Depot and buy some fluffy fiberglass in bags. Take the bags and stack them floor to ceiling in corners. Will look kind of ghetto but will work.

Glenn, I've been told the plastic bags will reflect sound. Are you sure this is a good thing to do?

Bryan

TRADERXFAN · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 11:12 pm »

It might reflect the highest end of the range a little, but not bass...

markC · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 11:27 pm »

You need more than two bags to make a difference. As far as the plastic goes, can you hear bass through a shower curtain? I think so. Plastic will not block the low frequency from entering the fiberglass.

markC · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 11:29 pm »

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=817#
Here's another good, low cost alternitive.

bmckenney · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 11:33 pm »

So if I need more bags to make a difference am I basically proving that buying lets say two Mega traps from Real Traps isn't going to do much for me? I was hoping for a significant improvement. Sure, floor to ceiling would be nice, but this is a living room. I might be able to go with two bass traps per corner, but no more.

markC · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Oct 2009, 11:50 pm »

It really depends on your room layout. I have 4 traps in my room and not floor to ceiling. I took them out one day to listen and put them back right away. They are the Jon Risch "cheap and dirty" type and work quite well for me. I have a 21.5' x 12' by 7.5' rectangular room.
If you have openings to other rooms that changes the equation.
If you contact Gik and/or Ethan, I'm sure that they will walk you through.

arthurs · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Oct 2009, 12:49 pm »

Barry, why do you recommend not stuffing the tubes?

bpape · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Oct 2009, 01:11 pm »

As has been said, it depends a lot on your room size as to how much 2 bags in relation to what you may actually need.

Some of what you're hearing may be positional to the seat. While corner control will help overall decay time and 'boom', seating position still plays a part that may not be able to be overcome purely with corner control.

The fact that you are getting some difference, just not as much as you hoped for, says that you simply need more in relation to the room size.

If your seating is set relatively close to a wall, try a couple more bags laid on the floor behind the couch.

Bryan

bmckenney · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Oct 2009, 04:10 pm »

Bryan, my room is 22' long, 12' wide. I'm assuming that is medium sized and two corner bass traps should result in some benefits. And my speakers are 5.5 from the front wall, and my chair is about 5' from the rear wall.