[Nuance]

I'll second (or third) the recommendation to go with a 2.1 setup first.  A great 2.1 setup will sound better than a mediocre 5.1 system IMO.  Start with a solid foundation and build from there.

SongTower's: $1795/pair
Receiver - Used Onkyo 805:  $500-$600  http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000OBJW1S/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1254246457&sr=8-1&condition=all
Subwoofer funds left over: $700-$800

I recommend a subwoofer over a center or rears because it is more detrimental for home theater in my opinion.  Plus crossing over to a subwoofer will take some strain off powering the speakers and allow you to find the best in-room bass response, which is hardly ever the same location the speakers reside.  Add the center and rears later when funds become available.  Just food for thought.

[srb]

For theater use, the surrounds don't necessarily have to be great shakes either, you could go and buy a pair of cheap bipoles for under $100 and you are in business.

I agree.  If you are talking about movies (and not multi-channel music) get an economical used pair of monopoles, dipoles or whatever, and they can be put to use in another room later, if you upgrade.  I currently use a pair of B&W DM302s ($250 retail / $125 used) for surrounds, and they sound great for movie use.
 

I recommend a subwoofer over a center or rears because it is more detrimental for home theater in my opinion.

Nuance, I'm sure you didn't mean detrimental (harmful, damaging, hurtful), but perhaps important, useful, necessary .... ?   
 
You will get varying opinions on sub vs center.  Sitting in the sweet center spot will sound pretty good without a center speaker.  But viewers sitting to the sides will not hear sound emanating from the screen, or dialogue from the actors mouths.  If that isn't a concern for now, go with the sub.  If it's important that people sitting on the sides have a good experience, go with the center.
 
Just another opinion.
 
Steve

[rahimlee54]

I dont know how they sound, but emotiva is closing out the ERM 1's.  Maybe you could get a few of those and flesh out the 5.1 with that, 129 a pop shouldnt be to bad.  I am not surd if you can use it horizontally as a center or not, but it is worth a try until you can finish out a matching 5.1.  I have seen some really good deals on used AVRs within the last couple months give it a try, you know you want some salks .

[floresjc]

I would say your best best is the Songtowers, and I think they would work in your room nicely. I went over to Swerd's to hear his a few months ago, and his room is about the same size wise as yours, plus his opens in to his kitchen/hallway area and it sounded just fine.

The advantage of the Songtowers is you can drive them with a fairly cheap amp (like one you might have laying around) and they also have a wide soundstage so you can phantom center channel until you have money for a real one. The only real weakness is bass extension for home theater, and in that case I would take your 3k and get a SongSub and a pair of standard veneer SongTowers and call it a day. I personally think that would make a very nice basic tv/movie watching and 2 channel system, and I'd rather add the bass extension than the center channel with the limited funds.

Edit: I didn't see Nuance already mentioned the sub over the center/rears, and I agree totally with that. That's also how Swerd has his system set up, he uses his old speakers in the center and rear and the SongTowers are the star of the show.

[chargedmr2]

I would contact Jim if I were you.

I know he very recently had a pair of Song Towers and a Song Center with the upgraded ribbon tweeter that someone had traded in. It was a custom done set that he was going to refinish and sell.

The price was very reasonable.

Thanks for the heads up.  I'll check into this for sure.

[chargedmr2]

So after reading all the responses, I have lots of good info to digest.  I think I am leaning toward the 2.1 recommendation to get started.  I think I may also be able to stretch the budget a little. 

At the moment, I have a set of Orb Audio speakers (http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6) that are being used as "TV speakers" since the Pioneer KRP series monitors don't come with speakers.  I could possibly use them as a temporary center, though they wouldn't really match the STs for consistent sound across the front.  Alternatively, they could serve as temporary surrounds. 

As far as a sub, I've read good things about SVS and the PB13 Ultra.  Has anyone had the good fortune of comparing this to the SongSub. 

Thanks for the all the replies.

[JP78]

I don't mean to disparage Salk speakers in anyway, but how can you guys recommend a speaker with no high SPL LFE extension for a person in a large room that cites 90% movie-watching usage?

As previously mentioned,  given your budget I wouldn't mess with the ST's unless you can afford / fit in the room a decent-sized sub.

I'm sure the SongTowers are exceptional speakers within their limits, but I'm not sure HT use with no subwoofer is the intended application.

[chargedmr2]

I don't mean to disparage Salk speakers in anyway, but how can you guys recommend a speaker with no high SPL LFE extension for a person in a large room that cites 90% movie-watching usage?

As previously mentioned,  given your budget I wouldn't mess with the ST's unless you can afford / fit in the room a decent-sized sub.

I'm sure the SongTowers are exceptional speakers within their limits, but I'm not sure HT use with no subwoofer is the intended application.

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but to clarify my intentions, I plan to use a sub (or maybe two) for sure.  The question that emerged was whether I should start with the front three or a 2.1 setup for the first stage.

[K Shep]

I don't mean to disparage Salk speakers in anyway, but how can you guys recommend a speaker with no high SPL LFE extension for a person in a large room that cites 90% movie-watching usage?

I see your point JP and as a past SongTower owner I would like to say that if I were to build a 90% HT 10% music system my current choice would be SongTowers.  The voicing on those speakers at any price point is amazing.  The OP asked about surrounds or subs and my choice is for a sub, which will also cure the LFE issue.  Besides that, he asked the question in the Salk thread.

Kirk

[floresjc]

And quite honestly, I don't know what speaker at 3k would satisfy for home theater in terms of LFE. If you have to have a .1 at that price point (and its my observation that you would), it would be hard to beat the ST as dedicated mains if you choose a decent sub.

[mchuckp]

I went from a pretty nice 5.1 set up with Aperion speakers and an HSU research sub.  I'm now using a pair of STRTs all by themselves.  As of yet, I do not miss my surrounds.  On a movie soundtrack that is too dynamic, I wish sometimes I could bump up the center channel but can't.  Most the time I'd never know I didn't have a center.  I don't have a lot of seating, so all my watching is pretty centered.  I do notice that if I'm off center standing on the side of the room that everything still sounds great but the soundstage is messed up and not centered (obviously). 

Do I notice not having a sub?  On non-action movies, regular TV, etc, not really.  The STs dig deep enough for that kind of stuff.  On films that do have big low end, yes I notice that I'm not getting that low but all and all it doesn't bother me.  People have different tastes in sound.  Personally, I find BIG low end kind of distracting.  Even when I used my sub, I kept it fairly low key as I like a very smooth sound from top to bottom.

Someday I plan on hooking my sub back up but for now, I like what I'm hearing and love the simple, clean look of just having a pair of speakers vs cramming 5 speakers and a sub along with everything else.

You commented that you are new to audio.  If you can swing getting a 2.1 or 3.0 set up to start with, go for it.  But if you want to take it in baby steps, maybe just try 2.0.  It's kinda fun taking things in steps to see the improvement.  If you've never had good gear and never heard Salk speakers, you are in for a treat no matter what route you go. 

What are you using for a movie source?  Bluray? DVD?  If you don't have a decent source, you may want to consider something like the Oppo 983 bluray player.  It's a bargain at $500.  Absolutely stunning for bluray and DVD and a great audio player as well that supports every format under the sun.

Good luck figuring it all out.  That is the fun and agony of it all. 

[chargedmr2]

What are you using for a movie source?  Bluray? DVD?  If you don't have a decent source, you may want to consider something like the Oppo 983 bluray player.  It's a bargain at $500.  Absolutely stunning for bluray and DVD and a great audio player as well that supports every format under the sun.

Good luck figuring it all out.  That is the fun and agony of it all. 

Currently, I'm using a Pioneer BDP-51FD.  It came with the Pioneer 5020 that is in our bedroom and may end up being moved in there later on.  I've been eying the Oppo 983 for some time now, but wanted to budget for the audio before a second Bluray player. 

[srb]

If you don't have a decent source, you may want to consider something like the Oppo 983 bluray player.  It's a bargain at $500.

Sidenote if you happen to click the Make your Offer button on AudiogoN or place a bid on ebay:
 
The 983 (DV-983H) is the discontinued DVD player that was replaced by the BDP-83 Blu-ray player.
 
Steve

[Nuance]

Nuance, I'm sure you didn't mean detrimental (harmful, damaging, hurtful), but perhaps important, useful, necessary .... ?   

Sometimes I just have no excuse and have no idea what I was thinking.  This is one of those cases.  Detrimental?  Hmm...I got nothing.  I know what I meant to say, though, or at least I did in my head before I started typing (the word I meant to use was "essential"). 
 

[Nuance]

So after reading all the responses, I have lots of good info to digest.  I think I am leaning toward the 2.1 recommendation to get started.  I think I may also be able to stretch the budget a little. 

At the moment, I have a set of Orb Audio speakers (http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6) that are being used as "TV speakers" since the Pioneer KRP series monitors don't come with speakers.  I could possibly use them as a temporary center, though they wouldn't really match the STs for consistent sound across the front.  Alternatively, they could serve as temporary surrounds. 

As far as a sub, I've read good things about SVS and the PB13 Ultra.  Has anyone had the good fortune of comparing this to the SongSub. 

Thanks for the all the replies.

If I was you I'd use the orbs for rears and get the matching SongSub when I could afford it.  You definitely want the front stage timbre matched.  Unfortunately I don't have the funds for a SongCenter RT right now, so I am using my brother's Def Tech center (he has no room for it until he moves into a place without a roommate).  The difference is very noticeable and sometimes distracting when watching movies.  However, it is better than nothing, I guess...

Most of us have not heard a SongSub, but some have heard the Rythmik/Salk subs that Jim builds.  They are fantastic for the price, and very musical.  However, since you're 90% HT, the SVS PB13 Ultra that you mentioned should be considered as it is fantastic for movies, and no slouch for music (Just ask TJHUB).  I've heard TJ's and it's very close to the Sealed sound.  His integration and room might be a factor in this, but from what I have heard it delivers in all areas and then some.  Just my $0.02.

A pair of SongTower's paired with a custom Salk/Rythmik sub or SVS PB13 Ultra would be a match made in heaven.  Just my opinion, of course. 

[mchuckp]

OP:
in your original post you seemed to have concerns about WAF and furniture placement. With that in mind, remember that most subs are pretty big. They are more foregiving in placement, but take a lot of real estate.

If you think this might be an issue, take a look at some if the smaller options. They may not go quite as deep but may suit your needs.

[TJHUB]

To throw my 2 cents into this... 

I'm surprised so many of you Salk guys are recommending expensive (relatively speaking) Salk speakers to someone looking at mostly home theater and a low budget.  Doesn't add up.  This is a person who has a large room and home theater *needs* a very capable subwoofer.  Speakers?  It takes a really bad speaker to make movies sound bad.  The speakers would have to be voiced terribly or too small for the desired volume levels.  I have not seen the OP make one statement that would cause me to recommend Salk speakers.

That said, I'd recommend the OP stick with the recommendations of making certain the front 3 speakers are timber matched, use the Orbs for surrounds, and get 1 very capable sub (I say 1 sub because the only reasons to have 2 subs is to co-locate them for an output increase, or balance out frequency response). 

I like the idea of the Emotiva ERM-1's currently on closeout for $129.00 each.  They have adjustable crossover settings for different placement options and I have yet to see anyone say something bad about them.  I'd pick up 3 of them for the LCR and I'd even consider Emotiva's ERD-1's surrounds for another $299.00.  Then I'd find a sub from SVS, HSU, or ED that fits what you'd want to spend and size.  All three companies offer fantastic subs for HT AND SQ, you almost can't pick a bad one!  It really comes down to what fits the room and how much you are willing to spend.  Go big as you do have a large room.    This should leave you with about $1,000.00 (or more) for a fantastic receiver.  I'd recommend a unit from Onkyo or Marantz from accessories4less.com, but you can find many deals on the net.  Just don't buy used unless it's one of the newer models with all the bells and whistles so you don't end up missing any features you may want.

So there you have it, the single best recommendation on this thread thus far (IMO of course  ).  A really great HT setup that will easily handle 10% music for an amazingly low price all within your budget. 

       

 

[rahimlee54]

To throw my 2 cents into this... 

I'm surprised so many of you Salk guys are recommending expensive (relatively speaking) Salk speakers to someone looking at mostly home theater and a low budget.  Doesn't add up.  This is a person who has a large room and home theater *needs* a very capable subwoofer.  Speakers?  It takes a really bad speaker to make movies sound bad.  The speakers would have to be voiced terribly or too small for the desired volume levels.  I have not seen the OP make one statement that would cause me to recommend Salk speakers.

That said, I'd recommend the OP stick with the recommendations of making certain the front 3 speakers are timber matched, use the Orbs for surrounds, and get 1 very capable sub (I say 1 sub because the only reasons to have 2 subs is to co-locate them for an output increase, or balance out frequency response). 

I like the idea of the Emotiva ERM-1's currently on closeout for $129.00 each.  They have adjustable crossover settings for different placement options and I have yet to see anyone say something bad about them.  I'd pick up 3 of them for the LCR and I'd even consider Emotiva's ERD-1's surrounds for another $299.00.  Then I'd find a sub from SVS, HSU, or ED that fits what you'd want to spend and size.  All three companies offer fantastic subs for HT AND SQ, you almost can't pick a bad one!  It really comes down to what fits the room and how much you are willing to spend.  Go big as you do have a large room.    This should leave you with about $1,000.00 (or more) for a fantastic receiver.  I'd recommend a unit from Onkyo or Marantz from accessories4less.com, but you can find many deals on the net.  Just don't buy used unless it's one of the newer models with all the bells and whistles so you don't end up missing any features you may want.

So there you have it, the single best recommendation on this thread thus far (IMO of course  ).  A really great HT setup that will easily handle 10% music for an amazingly low price all within your budget. 

       

 

I was originally going to go with salk for just HT and video games, then I heard how a good speakers plays cd and now am at 60/40 HT/music, but the OP may not be like me .

[TJHUB]

To throw my 2 cents into this... 

I'm surprised so many of you Salk guys are recommending expensive (relatively speaking) Salk speakers to someone looking at mostly home theater and a low budget.  Doesn't add up.  This is a person who has a large room and home theater *needs* a very capable subwoofer.  Speakers?  It takes a really bad speaker to make movies sound bad.  The speakers would have to be voiced terribly or too small for the desired volume levels.  I have not seen the OP make one statement that would cause me to recommend Salk speakers.

That said, I'd recommend the OP stick with the recommendations of making certain the front 3 speakers are timber matched, use the Orbs for surrounds, and get 1 very capable sub (I say 1 sub because the only reasons to have 2 subs is to co-locate them for an output increase, or balance out frequency response). 

I like the idea of the Emotiva ERM-1's currently on closeout for $129.00 each.  They have adjustable crossover settings for different placement options and I have yet to see anyone say something bad about them.  I'd pick up 3 of them for the LCR and I'd even consider Emotiva's ERD-1's surrounds for another $299.00.  Then I'd find a sub from SVS, HSU, or ED that fits what you'd want to spend and size.  All three companies offer fantastic subs for HT AND SQ, you almost can't pick a bad one!  It really comes down to what fits the room and how much you are willing to spend.  Go big as you do have a large room.    This should leave you with about $1,000.00 (or more) for a fantastic receiver.  I'd recommend a unit from Onkyo or Marantz from accessories4less.com, but you can find many deals on the net.  Just don't buy used unless it's one of the newer models with all the bells and whistles so you don't end up missing any features you may want.

So there you have it, the single best recommendation on this thread thus far (IMO of course  ).  A really great HT setup that will easily handle 10% music for an amazingly low price all within your budget. 

       

 

I was originally going to go with salk for just HT and video games, then I heard how a good speakers plays cd and now am at 60/40 HT/music, but the OP may not be like me .

I agree completely.  I'm more of a music guy, 80% music and 20% HT.  Now that I have my Salk's, I don't care if I never listen to HT again (and I love movies) as long as I have music playing on my HT2-TLs. 

I suppose it would be possible to convert the OP over to more music, but that's for him to decide.  It's very difficult to recommend $1,800.00+ speakers with such a small budget for all that gear anyway, but factor in the primary use for HT and I just don't think Salk makes the list.  Switch things around to the OP's budget not including a receiver and a higher percentage of music listening with a desire for finish type and quality, I'd quickly change my recommendation.   

[fsimms]

If you are going to use a sub then you might consider the Salk SongSurround II's or SongSurronds for the main speakers.  With a sub you would  probably want to not use the extended bass response from the SongTowers anyway.  You would need to buy speaker stands though.

I think it is very important to get good speakers as it is the most critical part of the system.  Save money on any other part of the system and not the speakers!

Bob