[lkosova]

Ekovolsky,



Speakers are at the freight terminal in town, delivery scheduled for Monday afternoon !!!


How can you stand it??? Your speakers will arrive then you will have to go to CES.

Larry

[ekovalsky]

Not going to CES until Friday because of work.  So I'll have a few days to play around with them.

Waiting the weekend because the freight company decided Jan2 is a holiday  

[RickRichardson]

I am the guy who did the experiment with dual, head-to-head 626R's as a center channel.  I thought they were the best thing I had heard for a center channel in my system.  I had previously tried a dipole(Eminent Technology LFT-12), and two monopole ribbons (Bohlender-Graebener A-2 and Soundline SL-7).  A singel 626R was better on either HT or music, and dual, head to head 626R's was noticable better than one.  This was especially true for HT dialog, which was easier to understand and more natural sounding.  

Based on this experience, I have ordered three Rm-30's with the intention of using one, an RM-30C as a center speaker, place horizontally on top of my 65" RPTV.  In my room, I do not have the room to try a vertical placement.  I intend to angle them down slightly to be directed at the main seating positions.  I expect that this will be an improvement in the critical midrange area over the two 626R's.  I will certainly let you all know what I find out.  It will not be a perfect experiment because the 626R's do not have FST's.  I may end up upgrading them and trying them as rear speakers, but, due to my HT room configuration, it may be a problem mounting them on the rear wall.  The WAF comes into play here.  
 
I know the RM-30C is not going to be perfect, but just better.

[Redbone]

Low pass filter to the midrange is 7khz.  Low pass to the woofer (or high pass to the midrange) would be 166hz.  Obviously the 6.5" woofers of the RM30 will go higher in frequency than the 10" woofers in the RM/X and RM/40 so so maybe the high pass to the midrange has been adjusted in the RM30 too.

I didn't pick this up on first reading Big B's RM30 progress report -- I was thinking the 166hz was adjusted upward.  But he clarified via email when I inquired.

ekovalsky, thank you so much, you're the first person to make any sense.  Low pass, high pass.  Quite simple once you explained it.  Do you know if the low pass 7khz filter to the midrange was adusted up or down ?

Personally what I'd like to see on the 40s is the low pass 166hz filter for the woofers adjusted up quite a lot.  It sounds to me like there is a gap in sound between the 10" mid woofer and the neoribbons.

[ekovalsky]

A few things about the bass-midrange transition on the RM40's:

1.  The mid-woofer is mounted at the top and gets no reinforcement from the floor.  Jim and John each have a workaround -- Jim swapped woofers, putting the midwoofer near the floor, and John placed a MDF board on the top of the RM40 so it overhung the midwoofer, reinforcing and focusing its output.

2.  Turning down the midrange level pot will reduce bass output since the neo panels cover 166hz to 10k.  The "factory recommended" settings of approx 2-3:00, if I remember correctly, were far too bright in my room probably because there was no treatment and drywall reflections augmented the upper midrange and treble.  I had to dial the pots down to 10-11:00 to achieve a balanced sound, but that did suck out some of the mid-bass unfortunately.  A LEDE room like Big B has will minimize midrange and treble reflections so the levels can be set higher, maintaining the midbass impact.

I'm hoping with the floor mounted midwoofer of the RM/X and the LEDE treatment I've put up, there will be no more midbass weakness.  

I suspect the 166hz crossover frequency was chosen because it sounds best when mating the neo panels to the 10" woofer.  A 6.5" woofer will play higher so raising the woofer low pass filter may be beneficial with the RM30.  The added responsibility of the 6.5" woofer may diminish low bass response, but it sounds like most will be using the RM30 with one or more subs anyway.

[zybar]

Eric,

I think you are right on the money.

When I have the pots around 11-12, the system loses some snap and drive.  A friend who came over said that the leading edge had disappeared and the system was sounding a little too polite.

By keeping the pots between 1-2:30 I was able to get that transient attack back to where it should be.

Man these speakers really are tuneable...

GW

[ekovalsky]

I'm afraid about the tunability of the RM/x.  In addition to all the variables on the RM-40, I'll have the swiveling tweeter pod to deal with.  Plus the main woofer is firing out the side...

From what Julian says, I'll be occupied for the next few months  

[Horsehead]

Hopefully the good doctor won't get taken away in a straight jacket  

[Sa-dono]

It's good to see this change finally going on...it proves I was right (and not crazy) all along

Not sure it "proves" that!!!!       (I still think your a little crazy )

Well I was talking in regards to one point. And that doesn't mean much coming from the Depends poster boy/old man Have fun on Saturday (if MD gets his DAC)..wish I could be there.

[Redbone]

I'm afraid about the tunability of the RM/x.  In addition to all the variables on the RM-40, I'll have the swiveling tweeter pod to deal with.  Plus the main woofer is firing out the side...

From what Julian says, I'll be occupied for the next few months  

You've got a big advantage in that you've already owned a pair of 40s.  People really scare me when they say things like one fingernail of putty makes a big difference.  Even if I could hear the difference, which I can't, I am not that patient.

So the 40s crossover at 10khz for the mid low pass and the new 30s crossover at 7khz.  That sounds like quite a difference, especially since both speakers have the same neoribbons and FST (except hte 30 has only 3 neos).  

I was tilting the 40s back for awhile to try to get the sweet spot upto about the 60-70" range so I could stand up and listen.  What I found is that that exasperated the problem with the upper midwoofer.  I may try setting the whole speaker on a 2' stand, which will get the top very close to my ceiling for reinforcement.  Who knows, that might actually work, or it might sound terrible, I don't know.  I remember someone suggesting turning them upside down, j/k.  First I'm going to let these guys burn in for awhile, then in a month or two I will get a good amp and put in new cables.  I'll keep fooling around with tuning, but at this point I really feel like I'm chasing ghosts.

[zybar]

Redbone,

Don't give up!!  

I agree that this can be a little frustrating, but it will ultimately be very rewarding (I think).

I'll call you so we can swap stories and see what not to do...  

GW

[warnerwh]

One fingernail of putty doesn't make a "huge" difference.  You will have to learn to hear the texture of the sound. I've noticed alot of people, including myself, have had some trouble getting to learn how to tune these speakers. It's quite easy to get them to sound bad but getting the most out of them takes practice.  Small adjustments are the best path to take even for the experienced VMPS owners. Others can argue this is wrong but I'd say it can take months to get them just right when you first are learning how to deal with them. All the adjustment is a double edged sword and patience is mandatory.  After awhile you will be able to do it with ease when changing amps out or what not.

[wshuff]

I'm a little confused.  I thought that in the ribbon monitors that used the older spiral ribbon tweeter that the neo mid panel was crossed at 10Khz, but with the FST the crossover was lowered to 7Khz.  If that is the new crossover filter that Brian was talking about in the new RM30, then what is different from before?

[Brian Cheney]

The midrange lowpass has changed, that's all I can tell you.  The results are spectacular.

[John Casler]

I'm a little confused.  I thought that in the ribbon monitors that used the older spiral ribbon tweeter that the neo mid panel was crossed at 10Khz, but with the FST the crossover was lowered to 7Khz.  If that is the new crossover filter that Brian was talking about in the new RM30, then what is different from before?

No change has been made to the high pass off the neopanel,  that stays at 7khz, only the x-over from the woofer to the neopanel is affected.

And as Brian said, that's my "final" answer

[wshuff]

Gracias amigo.

Now, is this new x-over something that would benefit a 626R with a spiral ribbon tweeter?

Enjoy yourself next week.  Wish I could be there.  Instead...I have a meeting with the Dept. of Homeland Security.  

[Redbone]

One fingernail of putty doesn't make a "huge" difference.  You will have to learn to hear the texture of the sound. I've noticed alot of people, including myself, have had some trouble getting to learn how to tune these speakers. It's quite easy to get them to sound bad but getting the most out of them takes practice.  Small adjustments are the best path to take even for the experienced VMPS owners. Others can argue this is wrong but I'd say it can take months to get them just right when you first are learn ...

Yup, patience is not one of my virtues.  Fortunately that is something that age tends to make better, not worse.  What is frustrating me is that I hear problems far greater than what will be addressed by putty changes or pot tuning.  As mentioned in another thread, I need to start back at step one with placement and room treatment.  A new amp and ICs will be next.  In the meantime I'll see if I can get a feel for the PR damping.  Right now I am using an integrated amp to power the ribbons so I can set their level quite easily.  I have the pots set as Brian recommends on his website for biamping two different amps, with the high at full and the mid backed off to 4 to match levels.  

1) The midrange lowpass has changed, that's all I can tell you.
2) only the x-over from the woofer to the neopanel is affected.

I'm sure it wasn't set lower.  

Pete

[ekovalsky]

And as Brian said, that's my "final" answer

 

So it is the low pass filter FROM the midrange that has changed?  Is the frequency set higher than the high pass filter from the woofer (for more overlap by the ribbon and cone drivers) or has the slope changed, or both?

[warnerwh]

"So it is the low pass filter FROM the midrange that has changed? Is the frequency set higher than the high pass filter from the woofer (for more overlap by the ribbon and cone drivers) or has the slope changed, or both?"

Great questions I'd also appreciate answers to.

Also exactly what kind of slopes are being used?
Are the slopes the same on the 30 and 40 and if not what are the differences in the slopes and upper bass?  

Can the RM 30 with the highest excursion woofers match the mid/upper bass of the ST/R SE's?

I know Brian doesn't like getting too technical for various reasons but I'm a potential customer and am curious.  Thanks

[Housteau]

A stereo pair of RM 30M sounds very engaging, tactile, and forward with excellent depty and image height to the ceiling. Good as this sounds, adding a single 215 sub to fill in the first octave transforms the image to an astonishing degree, making it more powerful and three dimensional.
I didn't think possible to do better, but adding an RM 30C to the center and driving all four speakers from the Trinaural Processor doubles listening quality once again. It is this configuration we will show at CES.

Will the RM-30M's and the RM-30C be running full range out of the Trinaural Processor?

Can two subs be run from that Processor with a Y adaptor to a stereo, or pair of mono amps?  Is there any benefit to doing this?