[TJHUB]

I'm shocked at how much I like it!  Not so much because it has a tube, but because I think I have great ears and I've read almost no good comments on this piece with the stock tube.  The piece is a Music Hall DAC 25.2 with the stock Electro-Harmonix 6922.

The DAC I have really come to appreciate is a stock PS Audio DLIII.  I started a thread on the Salk forum because I wasn't liking everything I was hearing from my setup and I was looking for a new DAC.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70218.0

I just received the Music Hall today and I've only been listening for a couple of hours.  There are certainly some things that are not good.  The bass down deep is a little muddy and the highs are rolled off sounding taking all of the sparkle away from my ribbon tweeters.  The decay is a little quick from cymbals and the like as well. 

I played some Peter Gabriel and found it to sound mostly like distortion where it used to sound really good.  However most tracks from other artists sound pretty good.  Then I listened to Patricia Barber thinking the Music Hall would fall flat on its face, but I was wrong.  The sound was wonderful.

The good I'm getting from this DAC is a nice wide sound stage that is deeper than my PS Audio DAC and more 3 dimensional.  Vocals are really nice and I can stare directly at my speakers and I cannot say that any sound is coming directly from them.  I had this kind of transparency before the PS Audio DAC, and I now have it again, but maybe better than ever.

There is much more I could state about the DAC, but I need more listening time.  One thing that surprises me is that I'm liking this DAC even with it's crappy, cheap tube that no one else seems to like.  I don't seem to hate it.  The DAC has it's flaws, but what's more interesting than anything is that I have a strong connection to the music.  I can always tell when I don't like the way something sounds because I don't get any connection to the music.  The Music Hall is giving me lots of connection.

I am a complete noob when it comes to tubes.  I've done nothing but search for information for the last few days and at one point in time I thought: "forget all of this crap!"  Well now I can't forget it.  I may be hooked on this sound even though it's from a lower end DAC with a low end tube. 

In my searching, I found Tube World and emailed Brendan about 5 times now.  The most interesting thing is that Tube World is in the same town I work in.  He suggested a few tubes for me, but thinks because I'm new to tubes, I should do some tube rolling.  He is suggesting I pick up a used Mullard SQ Holland and a Tesla NOS 1980's to play with.  He suggested a Telefunken E88CC used but tested "platinum low noise" as the "best" sounding tube. 

I am very uncertain what to do.  I really didn't expect to like this DAC, especially with the stock EH6922.  I'm still listening to Patricia Barber and LOVING IT!  This just makes me want to go for the "best" tube and forget any others.  I just want a little more upper end extension with a more articulate bass, while maintaining all the sound stage improvements. 

Any thoughts?

[JimJ]

Welcome to the dark...or should I say, lighted side

[vinylphilemag]

There's something very special about tubes.  I love my Audio Research SP-9 mk 2 and PrimaLuna ProLogue 7s!

[TJHUB]

Thanks guys.  Yes, there is something special about tubes.  I wonder what a good one sounds like...

To update my original post, I tried the DAC in 96k over sampling mode and the bass became much more articulate.  Peter Gabriel sounded much better if not good, and everything was better.  Then I tried 192k mode and the sound reminded me a lot of my PS Audio DAC.  I was a little surprised by this.  I even switched back and forth between the two DACs, and they sounded VERY similar with the Music Hall having only about 80% of the brightness the PS Audio exhibits.

I have to say that I really like the Music Hall DAC.  Now I wondering what I should do about tube rolling as I could just be happy the way it sounds now.  It's just that I'll wonder every day how much better things would get with a high-end tube.   

[oneinthepipe]

TJ:

I am loving my AVA Ultimate 70 and my AVA Transcendence 8+ DAC.  The U70 easily drives the HT2-TL in my little room.

(You know that an AVA owner would chime in here.)   

OITP

[TJHUB]

TJ:

I am loving my AVA Ultimate 70 and my AVA Transcendence 8+ DAC.  The U70 easily drives the HT2-TL in my little room.

(You know that an AVA owner would chime in here.)   

OITP

Yeah, you AVA guys are everywhere!

I really think I stumbled upon what I was looking for from my setup when I posted that DAC question on the Salk forum.  I need more time to get this all figured out, but so far so good.  This has been an interesting night and I can't wait to get home from work tomorrow night! 

[Ericus Rex]

Now try a great tube amp and pre!  You may never go back to SS.

[Wind Chaser]

Now try a great tube amp and pre!  You may never go back to SS.

Note - "great" being the operative word... 

[oneinthepipe]

...

[Pez]

I am a tubeoholic.  I recently listened to a few tube DACs (one of the few remaining none tube pieces I own) and I gotta say it does great things everywhere! I loved the sound of the MHDT havana as well as the Scott Nixon TubeDAC, more the former than the latter, but the Nixon had some fantastic attirbutes that the Havana couldn't match, mainly emotionality, but at the sacrifice of treble clarity.  Any way I digress, I'm glad you enjoyed your first tube experience! Rarely do people start with a tubed dac though. 

[FullRangeMan]

There's something very special about tubes.  I love my Audio Research SP-9 mk 2 and PrimaLuna ProLogue 7s!

Dear Vinylphilemag,
I could buy a PrimaLuna Prologue7 monos, if I have the means. Say us something of this beauty, it is reliable?  Howmany hours lasts the output tubes?  Sound quality etc...
I thanks any info you can input!
Gustavo

[TJHUB]

I am a tubeoholic.  I recently listened to a few tube DACs (one of the few remaining none tube pieces I own) and I gotta say it does great things everywhere! I loved the sound of the MHDT havana as well as the Scott Nixon TubeDAC, more the former than the latter, but the Nixon had some fantastic attirbutes that the Havana couldn't match, mainly emotionality, but at the sacrifice of treble clarity.  Any way I digress, I'm glad you enjoyed your first tube experience! Rarely do people start with a tubed dac though. 

"Rarely do people start with a tubed DAC though."  Hmm, seems completely normal to me. 

I never had any interest in tubed gear until I got into external DACs, and that has only been a few months.  What happened to me was that I wanted a "good" 2-channel setup with home theater capabilities.  My searching led me to the Parasound 2100 preamp with HT bypass.  I finally found a magical piece that did everything I needed.  I paired the 2100 with a Parasound 2250 amp to drive my Salk speakers for 2-channel.  I've been streaming lossless music for about 4-5 years now and I needed a good DAC to use with my 2100.

Fast forward and I purchased the PS Audio DLIII DAC and it was a HUGE improvement over my previous processor or CD players.  I thought all was good.  Well, like always, change was needed.  I really love the flexibility of my Parasound setup and the only piece I was willing to change was the DAC.  I started searching for different DACs, and until just recently I was going to order the MHDT Havana.  I got scared off when I listened to my first non-oversampling SS DAC.  It was just terrible!  I'd rather not listen to music than listen to that thing.  So non-oversampling wasn't high on my list. 

However, I was still interested in listening to a DAC with a tube buffer.  An acquaintance of mine from another forum purchase the Music Hall DAC and really didn't love it.  Then he installed an Amperex PQ tube and really liked it a lot.  What intrigued me most is an over-sampling DAC (switchable from non to 96k to 192k) with a tube buffer.  All the things I felt I *needed* to give tubes a try.  Not to mention that I got the DAC for CHEAP from a dealer that used it as a demo.  The DAC is FLAWLESS and no sign of dust anywhere.  What a deal!  The nicer tubes I'm looking at cost over 2/3 of what I paid for this DAC.  The fact that I like it is just icing on the cake. 

Now I need to start tube rolling.  I'm thinking I may just spring for the Telefunken tube and hope for the best.  I was told that if the DAC doesn't sound a lot better with that tube, then the DAC is no good.  I hope that's not the case!     

I know you didn't need to read all of that, but there it is anyway. 

[Scottdazzle]

TJHUB,

I heard an Audio Research preamp (SP3a1, i think) back in the 1970's and was startled by how real the music sounded.  I carried that memory for nearly 30 years before I bought my first tube component (a TAD-150 preamp).  Since then I haven't looked back.  It's tubes for life from now on.

Scott

[vinylphilemag]

Dear Vinylphilemag,
I could buy a PrimaLuna Prologue7 monos, if I have the means. Say us something of this beauty, it is reliable?  Howmany hours lasts the output tubes?  Sound quality etc...
I thanks any info you can input!
Gustavo

Hi Gustavo,

I've had my ProLogue 7s since this past Christmas, and it's worked without flaw.  It's well built and they're well-packed (triple boxed!), so I'd say that they're very reliable.

I've no idea how long the ouput tubes will last (I'm using the stock KT88s), but the sound quality is great!  I don't regret buying them one bit, and recommend a listen to anyone looking for an amp in their price range.

[TJHUB]

TJHUB,

I heard an Audio Research preamp (SP3a1, i think) back in the 1970's and was startled by how real the music sounded.  I carried that memory for nearly 30 years before I bought my first tube component (a TAD-150 preamp).  Since then I haven't looked back.  It's tubes for life from now on.

Scott

I can say that I too would have a hard time getting away from the sound I'm hearing with this DAC.  The sound is not exactly what I think I'm looking for, but it is very close.  Maybe a "better" tube is all I need to get the rest of the way.

I've been into audio since a very young age when my father and a couple of his brothers had really nice gear.  I can't believe I made it to the age of 41 without ever giving tubes a shot.  I guess I always understood tubed gear to color the sound.  I don't think I'm hearing what I'd call color.  Although tonight has proved a little different than last night.  I can hear what I'd call a distortion and some smearing in the low end of only some tracks.  It's strange really.  Tracks that I'd consider difficult come off beautifully while just some random ones don't have the low end articulation I'm used to.  The rolled of highs don't really seem so rolled off any more as it seems my brain and ears have made the adjustment. 

I'm am still finding the sound stage depth and 3 dimensional sound amazing.  I think last night I was so enamored with the sound stage I was overlooking some of the weakness in the music.  However, I could still live with the sound just as it is.  I can't give it up, even with it's faults.

I think it's the sound stage that gives the music a more realistic sound.  At least for me and my second day listening.  All I know is that I have a connection to this thing and listening to my favorite music has been both fun and interesting.   

[Tyson]

SS and tubes both color the sound, just in different ways.  SS tends to have a "fast" coloration, and tubes tend to have a "warm" coloration.  There's always exceptions to the rule, but that's a fairly consistent generalization.

IMO, it's smart to start with tubes at the source.  Digital especially is the most in need of tubes.  If you have easy to drive speakers, then a nice integrated tube amp might be your next step.  There's some good ones out there.  If your speakers are a difficult load, then a tubed preamp might be the next step in the path of tube nirvana.

[TJHUB]

SS and tubes both color the sound, just in different ways.  SS tends to have a "fast" coloration, and tubes tend to have a "warm" coloration.  There's always exceptions to the rule, but that's a fairly consistent generalization.

IMO, it's smart to start with tubes at the source.  Digital especially is the most in need of tubes.  If you have easy to drive speakers, then a nice integrated tube amp might be your next step.  There's some good ones out there.  If your speakers are a difficult load, then a tubed preamp might be the next step in the path of tube nirvana.

That's an interesting way to look at things.  I guess I never considered SS to "color" sound like I understood tube gear to "color" sound.  Makes sense.

I had in my mind a sound I was after.  I just got a lot closer and I was hoping more for tube recommendations than I was looking for you guys to try and get me to buy more tube gear.    I really love the functionality of my Parasound 2100 and it sounds very transparent (as in true to the source), so I won't take changing it too lightly.  I'm hoping the right tube in this DAC will get me to where I want to be. 

I'm sure like many of you, my audio sickness will drift further into the tube world and I'll be researching tubed preamps and amps sometime down the road.  Right now I just need to get this one piece figured out. 

[Tyson]

Ah, then in that case, give the Amperex 6922's (6dj8 is a different name for the same tube).  Or, if you can find them, Telefunken's are also great.  Siemens aren't bad at all either, but Amperex would be my first choice.  And they will indeed sound better than the EH tube you've got now.

[jimdgoulding]

Try a JAN-Philips aka Bugle Boy 6922 available from The Tube Store for $20.00.  Highest rated by Vacuum Tube Valley magazine in a shootout of 6922's for what it's worth.  I got four on the way.

[TJHUB]

Thanks for the recommendations.  I'm researching tubes and trying to learn all I can. 

I also have a forum member that is sending me a tube to try.  Great guy!  I think this whole thing may end up to be more fun than I thought.  I can't wait to try some other tubes.