[Tyson]

Tube swapping is more fun (and cheaper) than component swapping (upgrading).  I've got 21 tubes in my system, and tube swapping is addictive!

[markC]

I definately 2nd Tyson's recommendation of the Amperex 6922. ('60's into early '70's). I use them in my DAC and have purchased spares after trying several different types. I didn't splurge for the U.S white labels. The Holland made Orange Globe have a wonderfull full, rich sound. Highs are very well extended and baas is full and solid. As always, my ears, my system, etc. But, I've been through a few pieces of gear and a few tubes, so I believe this to be solid information.

[TJHUB]

Due to two very nice guys, I now have an Amperex Bugle Boy and an RCA labeled orange globe (made by Amperex Holland I believe) coming for me to try.  I'm fairly certain I'll spend the $20.00 on a JAN-Philips 6922 just to give it a listen. 

I'm going to call Andy at Vintage Tube Services tomorrow to see what he'll tell me. 

It's starting for me, isn't it? 

[markC]

Oh yes it has... I started with the Jan after the Sovtek. It will be a good comparison for you against the Amperex. I assure you that you won't look back to the Russians.

[ken]

It's not the most attractive component  but it 's supposed to sound great as a pre as well as a dac and priced very competitively, and from what I'm hearing the price is worth it alone just  for the dac.

http://2baudio.com/ the dac

[TJHUB]

Ah, then in that case, give the Amperex 6922's (6dj8 is a different name for the same tube).  Or, if you can find them, Telefunken's are also great.  Siemens aren't bad at all either, but Amperex would be my first choice.  And they will indeed sound better than the EH tube you've got now.

One thing I didn't mention is that Brendan from Tube World suggested I pass on the Amperex PQ and go with the Telefunken first with Siemans, Mullard, and a couple of others over the Amperex.  However, almost everyone else seems to prefer the Amperex's.  Anything to this?  I know the Telefunken is supposed to be really good, but to shut me down on the Amperex?  I was confused by that. 

[markC]

Depends on how deep your pockets are I guess. The Tele's are usually very pricy and the mullards to me, are too warm and lack top end extention. But now were getting picky and system/ear dependant.

[Bill O'Connell]

TJ,

 If you promise not to tell anybody else, 7308 tube

[Tyson]

Telefunkens are probably the best tubes out there, but they are pricey.  Mullards are great as well, warmer than the Amperex's, while the Siemens are less warm and more detailed.  At least in my experience that's been the case.  Only way to know for certain which ones you like the best is to get them all and try them in your system.  See, isn't this fun?

[TJHUB]

Telefunkens are probably the best tubes out there, but they are pricey.  Mullards are great as well, warmer than the Amperex's, while the Siemens are less warm and more detailed.  At least in my experience that's been the case.  Only way to know for certain which ones you like the best is to get them all and try them in your system.  See, isn't this fun?

I've spent the last few nights listening to this DAC trying to figure out what I like and what I don't like about the sound.  I was more certain yesterday than I am today.  Typical for me...

What seems to complicate things the most is the adjustable oversampling.  With the stock EH 6922, non-oversampling mode exibits very sloppy bass, a slightly smeared midrange, and rolled off highs with the sloppy bass being the most unacceptable aspect. 

In 96k mode, the bass tightens up a lot and becomes more articulate, but it is still distorted sounding.  Midrange is coherent, and the highs are more lively.  However, while trying to listen in only this mode all last night, I wasn't hearing what I really wanted.

Tonight I only listened in 192k mode.  The bass is even more articulate, but it's not even close to what my PS Audio was doing.  I've spent probably 100 hours of tinkering with my sub to achieve bass perfection.  I'm telling you, I got it.  It is (was) so balanced sounding with the woofer just clearly dancing off every note.  I'm very proud of the sound and I refuse to touch anything as I feel things will only get worse with any changes.  Well, even in 192k mode, the Music Hall is not there and I miss the bass.  The midrange is pretty good and I can't really say anything bad about the sound, but I could stand for a slightly richer sound here.  The highs are also really good.  This mode makes the DAC pretty lively and extended in the treble without ever throwing anything in my face like the PS Audio DAC can.  The mixture of the great sound stage and the lively treble sounds really good.  It's perfectly clear to me that the EH 6922 needs the 192k mode to sound the best for me and my setup.

So, I suppose this means I need a tube that sounds similar to what the EH 6922 with a more articulate bottom end.  I will say that while some tracks are obviously sloppy on the bottom end, others do sound very good.  However, EVERYTHING sounds great on the bottom end with the PS Audio DAC.

So...what tube is going to do this for me? 

[TJHUB]

TJ,

 If you promise not to tell anybody else, 7308 tube

I've read some positive comments on the 7308 tubes, but they just don't seem popular with anyone as recommendations. 

[Tyson]

Telefunkens are probably the best tubes out there, but they are pricey.  Mullards are great as well, warmer than the Amperex's, while the Siemens are less warm and more detailed.  At least in my experience that's been the case.  Only way to know for certain which ones you like the best is to get them all and try them in your system.  See, isn't this fun?

I've spent the last few nights listening to this DAC trying to figure out what I like and what I don't like about the sound.  I was more certain yesterday than I am today.  Typical for me...

What seems to complicate things the most is the adjustable oversampling.  With the stock EH 6922, non-oversampling mode exibits very sloppy bass, a slightly smeared midrange, and rolled off highs with the sloppy bass being the most unacceptable aspect. 

In 96k mode, the bass tightens up a lot and becomes more articulate, but it is still distorted sounding.  Midrange is coherent, and the highs are more lively.  However, while trying to listen in only this mode all last night, I wasn't hearing what I really wanted.

Tonight I only listened in 192k mode.  The bass is even more articulate, but it's not even close to what my PS Audio was doing.  I've spent probably 100 hours of tinkering with my sub to achieve bass perfection.  I'm telling you, I got it.  It is (was) so balanced sounding with the woofer just clearly dancing off every note.  I'm very proud of the sound and I refuse to touch anything as I feel things will only get worse with any changes.  Well, even in 192k mode, the Music Hall is not there and I miss the bass.  The midrange is pretty good and I can't really say anything bad about the sound, but I could stand for a slightly richer sound here.  The highs are also really good.  This mode makes the DAC pretty lively and extended in the treble without ever throwing anything in my face like the PS Audio DAC can.  The mixture of the great sound stage and the lively treble sounds really good.  It's perfectly clear to me that the EH 6922 needs the 192k mode to sound the best for me and my setup.

So, I suppose this means I need a tube that sounds similar to what the EH 6922 with a more articulate bottom end.  I will say that while some tracks are obviously sloppy on the bottom end, others do sound very good.  However, EVERYTHING sounds great on the bottom end with the PS Audio DAC.

So...what tube is going to do this for me? 

With those requirements, I'd rec Amperex, Siemens, and Telefunkens (in that order). 

[FullRangeMan]

THANKS ALOT VINYLPHILEMAG !!

[Ericus Rex]

I've read some positive comments on the 7308 tubes, but they just don't seem popular with anyone as recommendations.
[/quote]

Au Contraire, Mon Frere!  I've had some orange label Amperex 6DJ8s sitting around for years.  Never thought they sounded all that good in my system; lacked upper extension and came across as a bit dull overall.  Recently tried a Siemens 7308 and it is perfect in my system.  Upper extension and taughter bass when compared to the Sovteks I had been using.  (no direct comparison between it and the Amperex...sorry)

[TJHUB]

I have sort of an interesting story to share, so here it is...

I am completely new to tubes.  I've never heard any tubed gear in my own setup until I picked up this Music Hall DAC.  I have a friend who had a Conrad Johnson tubed preamp, but it did nothing special that I heard.  So this DAC has been a very interesting journey this week.

When I first hear the DAC, the sound stage width depth was really amazing.  So much so, I was missing some of the general flaws in the overall tonality of the DAC.  It only took the next few days to find all kinds of things that were not good.  Mostly I'll just say that the bass is sloppy sounding and the highs were sounding rolled off to my solid state ears.

Before yesterday, I was thinking that if I don't find a "good" tube for this DAC, I'll probably sell it and not look back.  I was just not loving the sound and frankly the magic of the sound stage has worn off.  It's still there, I've just gotten used to it. 

I purchased this DAC from a store as a demo unit with a stated 10 hours of use.  The DAC is absolutely flawless cosmetically and I couldn't find any dust on the outside or inside of the unit.  So it was either very new as stated or cleaned unbelievably well.  In either case, getting the DAC for almost half price was pretty sweet. 

The reason I mention the amount of use is that something changed yesterday.  I've had the DAC on at least 4 hours per day and at least 12+ hours Friday and Saturday.  It was Saturday afternoon that I started to notice a change in the overall tonality of the DAC.  It seemed to have gotten better.  There is an unmistakable change for the better in the DAC.  The bass is more articulate, the midrange sounds more like my PS Audio DAC, very clear without anything I'd call "tubey" sounding, and the highs sound extended and dynamic without sounding bright or in my face.  In other words: very good. 

I have several of my favorite tracks that were not sounding the best that now seem to be very good again without the problems my PS Audio DAC presented.  This change is not subtle.  I know some of this my ears/brain adjusting to the sound, but that's not all it because I still have my PS Audio DAC connected so that I can switch between the 2 DACs with a press of a button. 

I'm not one that believes in break-in, but I don't know anything about tubes.  I've changed nothing else on my setup during this last week.  Listening this morning has proved to give me the same feelings as yesterday, things are definitely better sounding to my ears.  For the first time, I feel like I could part with my PS Audio DAC without question.  The sound I have right now is very close to what I was looking for.

This brings me to a couple of questions:

1.  I know audio gear is about synergy, but is it crazy that I like the sound of this Electro-Harmonix tube? 

2.  Do tubes break-in or settle in to a sound after some hours of use?

Overall I'm really liking this DAC.  I can't wait to do some tube rolling this coming week.  I think the only thing I really need to improve is the bass articulation.  I could easily live with every other aspect of the sound I have right now.  This should be fun!