[wireburn]

Saw this thread and thought I'd chime in re: CRT projectors.  I've been into CRT FP for about five years now.  I'd like to dispell some myths that have been uttered here.

re: CRT tube life.  No they don't lose 50% brightness after a few years.  Yes, they will dim slowly as they wear, but a bulb projector is MUCH worse in this regard.  Not only will a bulb get dimmer, but will also shift color as it ages.  Most bulbs will give you a maximum life of about 2000 hours.  A CRT, if properly calibrated on a reasonable (80-90" wide) screen will give a full 10,000 hours of use.

re: CRT tube expense.  There are companies that rebuilt CRT tubes for a fraction of the cost of new.  Most models of tubes can be rebuilt for under $500 and you don't have to replace them all.  The green and blue will wear fastest and red almost never wears out.

re: high CRT startup cost.  Used units in great shape from reputable sellers can be had for well under $3000 shipped.  A scaler is necessary to get the best picture, but those are well under $1000.  If you're PC saavy, you can drive your CRT that way.

re: difficult to set up.  Yes, there is a learning curve to getting the best picture out of a CRT projector.  A professional can be hired if necessary, but many of us here are tweakers to the extreme.  I know I really enjoy being able to go in and squeeze that last 1% out of my PQ.

There, I've said my peace.  I'm not going to bash digital projectors.  Realize that they do have their drawbacks, but if you don't mind posterization, screen door effect, washed-out colors, poor black level, poor contrast, noisy fans, dust in the optics, and expensive bulb replacements, then sure, digital is very convenient.  Oops, I bashed.  

-Mike

[Rob Babcock]

Wow, does your projector's optics magically repell dust due to having CRTs?    That's one I've never heard.

Sorry your experiences with Digital Projects was so bad.  I've had none of those problems with mine (although, as previously stated here, my DLP doesn't do CRT black).

I'd suggest to anyone reading this google or check the reputable sources for info on CRT lifespan.  They age gracefully, but they do age.  

Don't be scared about color shift in the bulb of a Digital projector.  In my experience the bulb is at about 95% til the day it burns out.  I'm fortunate in that I can get bulbs for well under $200.  The cost of running DLP in my rig- about $100-$150 per year.  Not bad- and nothing to converge.

Fan noise is a red herring- projectors have fans, and some are noisy.  Some are not at all.  I can detect mine running, but I sure wouldn't charactorize it as loud in any way.  That depends greatly on how you set it up.

CRT is still the best image, if you can afford a good one.  But several other technologies are gaining a lot of ground on them.  DLP is great for gaming, too.  Unless you've got a magic CRT that doesn't burn in.

BTW, I wondered how long this thread would go before someone would jump in to start bashing our projectors.  

[Rob Babcock]

BTW, I wondered how long it would take for some CRT fan to "chime in" to start bashing our projector choices.   Four or five pages has gotta be a record.

[wireburn]

I got carried away.  Sorry, guys.

I have to admit that I haven't seen the latest digital offerings.  I have heard they've come a long way.  I know digital is the future, I just wanted to make sure the "dark side" was heard from.

-Mike

[Rob Babcock]

 I know digital is the future, I just wanted to make sure the "dark side" was heard from.

-Mike

  That's great!  I think most all of us will admit that CRT is the best image, but I'm a little leery of buying used.  The solid state types are getting so cheap that almost anyone can afford one now.

I never used to like LCD, but the newest ones pack the pixels closer together now.  I haven't seen the very latest ones, but I've heard the screen door thing is pretty much licked.

The main point of the thread is that once you see a decent FPTV you'll never wanna go back to a big box.  I think that's true whichever kind of projector you have.

[thayerg]

I read that for the very best picture quality (pq) one should install not one but two CRTs. I wonder whether the same applies to LCD projectors?

[rkapadia@ROOP]

I think the time has finally arrived where DLP is taking over CRT in terms of absolute image quality.  I completely agree with Larry; the 3 chip HT-500 is clearly the best quality display I've ever seen. However, part of the premium price comes from the iLink technology. For those not familiar, iLink removes all video/audio signal interfaces to an external box to rackmount, requiring a single thin fiber optic cable to plug into the projector.  This is definitely a lifestyle feature - on the current six wheel HT300 line the iLink version of the projector commands a hefty $3500 premium over the standard interface version.  Given the higher bandwidth requirements of the HT500, I wouldn't be surprised if there became available a standard version of the HT500 for a few thousand less by summer.  Also, I'd say the current HT300 displays offer 90%+ of the performance for almost a third of the price.

Regards,

[wireburn]

I read that for the very best picture quality (pq) one should install not one but two CRTs. I wonder whether the same applies to LCD projectors?

Yes and no.  If you have to have a larger screen (9-12' wide) with CRT quality, a "stack" can be a decent compromise.  Overall resolution will usually suffer due to convergence drift unless the setup is extremely good with excellent hardware.  The brightest digitals don't need a stack at this screen size.

Side-by-side stacks are now possible with 0 degree toe-in using custom picture blending hardware.  As a matter of fact, I'm going to see a demonstration of that on Sunday with two top of the line specially modded 9" gunned Marquee CRT projectors.  I've heard that it's incredible to behold.  It should be possible to use digital projectors in this application as well.  Some day soon I hope to see hardware for the PC that will perform this blending function.  The drivers are supposedly in the works for a Matrox card.

-Mike

[chino]

Hi!
Just wanna say thank you to all in this thread. Got my pj + screen + cables weeks ago. Im done with all the hassle of setting up everything speakers n all and finally enjoying my HT   Mike, the carada is b e a u tiful love it! That was one big ass packaging from carada   The room has plenty of space now and sounds much more better. i think i need to upgrade the sub next

[Mike Dzurko]

Hi!
Just wanna say thank you to all in this thread. Got my pj + screen + cables weeks ago. Im done with all the hassle of setting up everything speakers n all and finally enjoying my HT   Mike, the carada is b e a u tiful love it! That was one big ass packaging from carada   The room has plenty of space now and sounds much more better. i think i need to upgrade the sub next

Chino:

This is what it is all about  Carada is top notch. Enjoy the movies and music!

[thayerg]

I got my Z1 today, after four years of watching prices fall and also watching a crap Panasonic 19 inch analog. I'm here to tell you Mike is right. Take the plunge. We watched HD news and then Zoolander which was a hoot. Colors on the models' wild clothes were, like, totally lurid. I haven't touched the controls on the Z1 and it is already more than acceptable. Way more. When I get the chance I'll do an AVIA calibration. But the box is quiet in cinema mode and it syncs to whatever video you give it so it's a no-brainer on that score. It's also plenty bright on a plain white wall--I'll get a screen after I tweak seating and projector distances.

[Mike Dzurko]

I got my Z1 today, after four years of watching prices fall and also watching a crap Panasonic 19 inch analog. I'm here to tell you Mike is right. Take the plunge. We watched HD news and then Zoolander which was a hoot. Colors on the models' wild clothes were, like, totally lurid. I haven't touched the controls on the Z1 and it is already more than acceptable. Way more. When I get the chance I'll do an AVIA calibration. But the box is quiet in cinema mode and it syncs to whatever video you give it so it's a ...

Could you tell my wife that I was right about something?  The fun is just beginning for you. You're lucky you have HD, it will probably be months or more till we have it here. Just wish I had more than a couple hours a week to watch movies!

[JackStraw]

What type of bulb life can you expect from a Z1 or Z2?

[thayerg]

Bulb life is supposed to be 1000 hours. However some people report more and others less. 'Cinema mode' lengthens the life. People also say that keeping the cooling duct and air filter free of dust also contribute to bulb life. I suspect not jarring the projector when the bulb is on or hot also helps.

I figure bulb cost works out to around .35 cents per hour. Which compares to, say, between two and three bucks an hour for dvd or cable watching.

[scooter]

Saw this thread and thought I'd chime in re: CRT projectors.  I've been into CRT FP for about five years now.  I'd like to dispell some myths that have been uttered here.

re: CRT tube life.  No they don't lose 50% brightness after a few years.  Yes, they will dim slowly as they wear, but a bulb projector is MUCH worse in this regard.  Not only will a bulb get dimmer, but will also shift color as it ages.  Most bulbs will give you a maximum life of about 2000 hours.  A CRT, if properly calibrated on a rea ...

I have an NEC XG-75 projector. I would disagree with you, three chip DLP is now at a point where with a DVI connection I believe it exceeds the quality you would get on any normal projector barring something like a Marquee 9500. The main advantage of the projector is black levels and contrast, as DLP is now getting past the 5000:1 mark this is now becoming a moot point. Just MHO.

By the way this year you will see the release of the LCOS 1080 machines which should also shake the market up a little.

My  opinion is to buy a cheap DLP for now and wait 18 months for the HDTV versions (I expect that TI will announce them soon after the LCOS machines hit the market) to come down in price then you will have a long term proposition. In the end the 3 chip DLP's will reign supreme IMHO it is just a question of time until they become affordable.