[TRADERXFAN]

Yes... and from the Hidaka (1997) the spectral content from 350Hz-2.8K is most critical.   Extend that a little and you have the midrange as the critical area.    Since there are very few loudspeakers that have constant directivity over that range, you see very uneven spectral content in early reflections.   It may be that, rather than the reflection itself that is influencing the preferences.

Could you share what the test procedure was that gave these results? Just curious as to whether or not this was small room, like a living room space, or something larger like a hall.

And in terms of what people, in general, prefer, I have seen some studies that show people in general prefer more THD than less! So preferences in a subset such as ours (audiocircle members for example) just may diverge from those of the general population as a whole. 

I am not sure how this question of preference of direct vs reflected is really digging into what makes a holographic soundstage though. Is someone saying that reflected makes a more holographic illusion?  Because, at the end of the day, all we are really doing is trying to create some prefered type of illusion.  Nothing is truly "lifelike", in audio reproduction.


-Tony

[PhilNYC]

In terms of soundstage depth, I found that mine improved dramatically after I put diffusers on the wall behind my listening seat....

How far away was your seat from the wall?  I am curious about how much this distance matters to the results.

My listening seat is 6ft from the back wall.  The room is 19ft deep, and the front of my speakers are about 5ft from the front wall.  It is a very wide room (41ft wide), so the side-walls are a non-factor in the setup.

[woodsyi]

I got 9' to my diffuser in the back wall, 8' to speakers in the front from the listening position and 5' between the front wall (damped) and speakers. 

[youngho]

And in terms of what people, in general, prefer, I have seen some studies that show people in general prefer more THD than less! So preferences in a subset such as ours (audiocircle members for example) just may diverge from those of the general population as a whole. 

I am not sure how this question of preference of direct vs reflected is really digging into what makes a holographic soundstage though. Is someone saying that reflected makes a more holographic illusion?  Because, at the end of the day, all we are really doing is trying to create some prefered type of illusion.  Nothing is truly "lifelike", in audio reproduction.

Well the term "holographic" is a bit of a synesthetic term, anyway, right? Does this mean that the listener perceives a performance to be occurring in his/her listening room, even in miniature, kind of like the "Help Me, Obi-Wan" hologram? Or does this mean that the listener perceives himself or herself to be in a different acoustic environment, kind of like the hologram deck or the Danger Room?

Perhaps it would be reasonable to put forward a set of propositions like someone did earlier in the thread, according to individual preferences:

1. Symmetric setup of speakers with respect to the nearest boundaries in non-nearfield listening is helpful in stereo with respect to imaging and timbre
2. Broadband absorption of the first reflections at the sidewalls will tend to result in more pinpoint imaging for those listeners who may prefer a "tighter" soundstage
3. Some lateral reflections can help increase the perception of spaciousness for those listeners who may prefer a more "open" soundstage, particularly those used to hearing performances in older concert halls. This man be achieved by leaving the first sidewall reflection points for speakers with good off-axis performance, otherwise a 2D diffuser can be positioned directly behind the listening position and even at the first ceiling reflection points.
4. Speakers with uneven or irregular off-axis response should usually be toed-in more than those with good off-axis response. These may particularly benefit from sidewall absorption.
5. Front wall absorption is generally helpful, as is rear wall absorption or diffusion behind the listener.

etc.

[Ethan Winer]

The point made about professionals was that we should be careful about our definitions of "good" because they might differ from that of our customers.

I'm supposed to care what my customers think? This is news to me!

 

[HT cOz]

1. Symmetric setup of speakers with respect to the nearest boundaries in non-nearfield listening is helpful in stereo with respect to imaging and timbre
2. Broadband absorption of the first reflections at the sidewalls will tend to result in more pinpoint imaging for those listeners who may prefer a "tighter" soundstage
3. Some lateral reflections can help increase the perception of spaciousness for those listeners who may prefer a more "open" soundstage, particularly those used to hearing performances in older concert halls. This man be achieved by leaving the first sidewall reflection points for speakers with good off-axis performance, otherwise a 2D diffuser can be positioned directly behind the listening position and even at the first ceiling reflection points.
4. Speakers with uneven or irregular off-axis response should usually be toed-in more than those with good off-axis response. These may particularly benefit from sidewall absorption.
5. Front wall absorption is generally helpful, as is rear wall absorption or diffusion behind the listener.

etc.

A guide like this would be really helpful.

[srlaudio]

We have found that adding well designed diffusion to small rooms really improves imaging and detail in the mix.  This was born out at this recent installation:
http://www.srlaudio.com/dan_penn_studio.pdf

[Kevin Haskins]

The point made about professionals was that we should be careful about our definitions of "good" because they might differ from that of our customers.

I'm supposed to care what my customers think? This is news to me!

 

Chuckle....    Yea... it is much lower on my scale of importance than it used to rate.       

[srlaudio]

Oh Yeah, lol ..... here is a report from the Nashville Amplifier Show this past weekend....

http://www.srlaudio.com/modular_panel.pdf

[Browntrout]

  ............would anyone like their knives sharpening or perhaps you would like some of my dusters?

[drphoto]

Today I hooked up my old Maggies to make sure they still work, because I'm giving them to a fellow AC'er on Monday. I was walking around in the room and about 3 ft. behind my sofa the soundstage just snapped into place. So I got curious and put the Merlins back in and move my sofa. Big improvement! SS seems bigger, but more importantly it just sounds more 'correct' and musical, if that makes any sense. Plus the OB subs seem to integrate even better.

 Before I was in an equilateral triangle about 6' a side, so nearfield. I was trying to minimize the room, as I have still only have minimal treatments. Now, I'm sitting 9' away w/ the speakers still 6' apart.

Now the 'diffraction be gone' wool pads really seem to help, I guess because I am getting more room interaction. When in nearfield, I thought they just rolled off the high end without lending much improvement.

Goes to show it pays to experiment.

I'm beginning to think I need to replace my long in the tooth digital front end to really get where I want to be. However for now, I'm pretty happy with the sound.

As always, thanks for the advice.

[syntheticwave]

  ...but for the www.holophony.net holophonic sound stage we don?t need especially room treatment, because the procedure subtracts the playback room acoustics during the synthesis. 

Regards H.

[drphoto]

Call me crazy, (many have!) but I suddenly decided to reverse the above course of action and go extreme nearfield, like sitting about 4 feet away on the floor. Wow! I guess w/ small speakers in a large room, there's really no other option. I also temporarily stapled a piece of eggcrate mattress topper foam (need to get a GIK panel eventually) to the ceiling above the listening area. I'm getting my subs more dialed in (had the low cutoff too high) and got my DAC fixed. Now I'm getting that 'music floating in space' thing.

Man, I'm having fun. This may not be as good as the best rigs I've heard, but it's really really nice.

thanks again.

[bpape]

Yup.  Tons of changes and tons of fun.  And the best part is - it's FREE.  Can't say that about too much in this hobby.

Bryan