DAC/PRE?

pardales · « **on:** 11 Jul 2009, 07:33 pm »

I thought I heard about development of a DAC/PRE. Anything to this?

avahifi · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Jul 2009, 09:05 pm »

We are still working on this, pending on arrival (due any day now) of our next future generation DAC board prototype. This got delayed by the announcement of a newer version of the chip set, and might even be delayed more as we evaluate a third version of the chip set that just was announced updating the second version. Version #3 is supposed to be pin compatible with version #2 (which was supposed to be pin compatible with version #1 (but was not). Oh well. Its hard for us to keep up but we have to nail things down for production very soon now.

Stay tuned in.

Meanwhile the final prototype metal for the Ultravalve tube amp is on order too, complete with a nice new silver faceplate and polished stainless chassis. It will sell for $1995 as an introduction price, but we won't be able to hold that price long term. We are taking orders now.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

ricmon · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Jul 2009, 05:56 pm »

Frank will there be enough room inside of the dac/pre for a phono section and will it be available in Insight and Ultra configurations?

thanks
Ric

pardales · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Jul 2009, 07:41 pm »

As long as we are asking, I would like to see multiple digital inputs.

rp9197 · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Aug 2009, 01:37 pm »

I just spotted this thread. I just ordered a Double 550/Ultra DAC/Ultra EC preamp in early June. I've really been enjoying them ever since. Everything that I read on this board is true. Frank answers questions immediately, it sounds as wonderful as you folks say. But....

My timing for buying new audio equipment seems to be uncanny though. I had no idea that there was a new pre-amp and DAC in the works. I definitely would have waited to place the order. At the time Frank mentioned that the Ultra DAC sounds better than SACD so I really didn't think another DAC was on the drawing board.

Frank mentions he's taking orders for the preamp? I don't see any mention of it on the website or details? Is there any more info on the DAC and preamp? Will upgrades be possible?

I know the great sound that I have now isn't going to get worse. It will however drive me kind of crazy knowing there's a better product out there from the company. It also makes what I have worth much less on the already tough used market. Everybody wants the latest and greatest. I know it's bound to happen eventually. It just hurts so much more to have it happen so soon.

I would have to agree with the other poster about multiple DAC inputs. This was almost a deal breaker when I was thinking of buying. I did buy Frank's recommended switch. Frank's explanation that his expertise is in the electronics. Someone else can make a switch better and cheaper makes sense in a way. On the other hand people do not want multiple boxes. I think a lot of people don't like the idea of adding an extra step to the chain. When simpler is usually better it just seems to complicate things (Oh no another remote!).

Hopefully I didn't walk in here like a bull in a china shop. It wouldn't be the first time. I don't participate in a lot of internet chatter so I'm not the best at getting my point across exactly as I intended it. I hope nothing that I wrote here would make anybody hesitate for a second to buy Frank's equipment. The Blue Jeans cable is another fantastic recommendation here. I've used so many different cables and these fit the best. No worries when the kids are over that they could pull the RCA connection off the subwoofer. The locking banana plugs are the best speaker connection I've seen.

martyo · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Aug 2009, 02:18 pm »

Hi,

Just yesterday Frank mentioned the DAC/PRE in another thread. Read through the last post, made by Frank http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64965.0

I feel the same as you about having more inputs. Pretty common today to have more than one digital source.

I could be speaking out of line, but I'm thinking a DAC/PRE in a single chassis is gonna be tough to beat the combo of the Ultra PRE and DAC.

Pretty nice front end you have, what speakers are you driving?

Oh, and BTW, WELCOME!

WGH · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Aug 2009, 02:47 pm »

Quote from: rp9197 on 28 Aug 2009, 01:37 pm

Frank mentions he's taking orders for the preamp?

Enjoy what you have. Frank is taking orders on a tube amp.

charmerci · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Aug 2009, 03:26 pm »

rp,

If the DAC is that much better, you can send it in and have it upgraded for minimal cost.

I've been following Frank for almost 25 years and I'm jealous of what you have. My old AVA stuff just keep sounding better to me year after year.

Sit back, relax, close your eyes and enjoy the music.

rajacat · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Aug 2009, 03:34 pm »

I think that DAC technology is changing so fast that a DAC/PRE combo wouldn't be a good investment. Separates are the way to go in this case. IMO of course.

-Roy

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Aug 2009, 04:49 pm »

rp:

You have a great system.

Frank recently offered a low-cost upgrade (prior to your units' production) and a no-cost upgrade (for the U70). In Frank's constant quest for sonic improvements, if he finds or develops a component that sounds better, he will make an upgrade available to his customers. The upgrade path is a big plus for AVA owners, and you can always have the best available.

Notwithstanding, a combo pre/DAC wouldn't necessarily be a step up for you. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think that the combo pre/DAC will be competing with the Ultra pre and the Ultra DAC. You already have AVA's best. Congratulations on your purchase of such fine components.

rp9197 · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Aug 2009, 07:04 pm »

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction to look at Frank's other post. Oops,I didn't realize that it was a combo dac/pre. Somehow I took it to be a $1,995 preamp with a dac to come. I guess this is why I stay away from posting on the net!

I think I requested my first AVA catalog many years ago in the days of catalogs and not internet. I've been keeping one eye on Frank's stuff for a long, long time now. I've noticed over the years that he often offers reasonable updates etc. This definitely was a factor in why I finally jumped in. I've always thought it was ridiculous to buy an amp somewhere, a pre somewhere else and a dac from another company. Not to mention the whole cable mess. I knew Frank's products would be good I just thought the only way to know for sure is to complete the stack. I love that it's made in the U.S.A. I think it's a pretty unique situation to have somebody who has been working at refining these circuits for so long. Why buy somebody's first amp/pre or dac design?

It's been great so far. My speakers are ACI Saphires with 2 ACI Force subs. ACI is another great, small company that is a pleasure to deal with. I've got an eye on the big Salk's but I plan on moving soon. I wouldn't want to move those beasts twice and I'd like to make sure I've got a big enough room for them. I have a pair of Emerald Physics 3 speakers that I bought for another room. They run through a Behringer and are certainly something different. I'd love to hear them with Frank's stuff in my main room. It's a matter of getting the proper cables and energy to try that out. I think it might be something special but we'll have to see someday.

Wayner · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Aug 2009, 09:25 pm »

So you'd like a DAC with multiple inputs you say?

rcag_ils · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Aug 2009, 11:56 pm »

rp9197, welcome to the club, complaint like yours is not uncommon, the cost for Frank's upgrade won't be minimal if you've own the equipment for more than 30 days.

If you read Frank's story in the Audio Basic about how this early computer company went out of business in the 80's, you'd know why he's keeping this new product in supereme secrecy, so that consumers wouldn't be just keep waiting, and waiting for the lastest and greatest.

rp9197 · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Aug 2009, 11:01 am »

I'm a fan of Apple computers. As with any computer you know it's obsolete by the time you get it home. That said, it's uncanny how many times I've bought a new Apple computer/ipod/gadget only to see the newer model released immediately afterwards! I know something better is coming but it always gets me when it happens right away.

charmerci · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Aug 2009, 11:06 am »

Quote from: avahifi on 11 Jul 2009, 09:05 pm

We are still working on this, pending on arrival (due any day now) of our next future generation DAC board prototype. This got delayed by the announcement of a newer version of the chip set, and might even be delayed more as we evaluate a third version of the chip.... Oh well. Its hard for us to keep up but we have to nail things down for production very soon now.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

rp, martyo,

Yes, Frank is working on new DAC - but he sounds like it might come out in a few months - or a long time - or maybe like his Differential line - never.

martyo · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Aug 2009, 01:09 pm »

Quote

Quote from: Wayner on 28 Aug 2009, 09:25 pm
So you'd like a DAC with multiple inputs you say?

Hmmmm, I'm wanting to read something into that response.

Wayner · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Aug 2009, 06:47 pm »

There is an old saying in the business world. Innovate or evaporate. However, rushing a product to market that isn't ready is a formula for disaster. The chip companies are spitting out chips faster then can be designed around.

Wayner

JerryM · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Aug 2009, 06:57 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 28 Aug 2009, 09:25 pm

So you'd like a DAC with multiple inputs you say?

Yep. If one of them happened to be USB, that would be really sweet.

Have fun,
Jerry

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Aug 2009, 10:13 pm »

And maybe multiple resolutions.

There are a lot of folks that are interested in hi-rez audio. I briefly (very, very briefly) compared a red book and a hi-rez version of a recording at Zybar's home, and I thought that there was a slight difference. Zybar has a very detailed system, and with a less revealing system, I don't know how noticeable, if at all, the difference would be. Regardless, hi-rez formats, because of marketing strategies, superiority, and/or whatever, are apparently becoming more prominent, and I wouldn't be surprised if, in the nearer future, the majority of newly produced music was in a hi-rez format. If that is the situation, it might be more difficult to sell a DAC that didn't accept hi-rez material.

Quote from: Wayner on 29 Aug 2009, 06:47 pm

There is an old saying in the business world. Innovate or evaporate. However, rushing a product to market that isn't ready is a formula for disaster. The chip companies are spitting out chips faster then can be designed around.

Wayner

And then there are some old timers that still spin vinyl, like my dear friend Wayner and myself. Unfortunately, there probably aren't enough old timers (i.e., purists) to keep too many companies in the black.

gjs_cds · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Aug 2009, 06:03 pm »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 29 Aug 2009, 10:13 pm

There are a lot of folks that are interested in hi-rez audio. I briefly (very, very briefly) compared a red book and a hi-rez version of a recording at Zybar's home, and I thought that there was a slight difference.

They actually did a great study on exactly this. They directly compared 16 bit vs. 24 bit recordings over three different levels of system quality (i.e., price-point) and had hundreds of golden ears listen and compare the recordings (double-blind).

Results? No difference. The only time that people could reliably differentiate between 16 bit and 24 but were at exceedingly high volume levels.

Frank's been saying this all along... And now there's data to confirm it. I've read the article, and it's sound...w/ no threats to internal or external validity.