My First Topic-What to Do

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James Tanner

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #40 on: 23 Jun 2009, 02:26 pm »
I have the Pioneer 09fd for a blue ray player so I won't need video processing.
I would have loved for the Bryston BP26 To have the HT Bypass that was spoken of.Would have gone that route in a heart beat.
My reasoning is that if going for the Sp3 with the 2 channel and the 5.1 together is great and all for those who have the funds to Upgrade but that isn't my situation.I can save to get the sp3 but when the 5.1 format marches on at some point it has to be tossed out.So I guess I find it difficult to see myself getting rid of a perfectly fine 2 channel side to the SP3.Now If the SP3 will have a ht bypass would that solve the problem if I want to use in the future a current stand alone 5.1 hooked up to it for movies?

Hi 1oldguy.

The SP3 will have an analog bypass so using it as the center of a quality 2channel and surround system is it's intended function.  I think what some are saying though is if your priority is 2-channel and you want to get started now go with a quality 2 channel preamp, use 4- of the 7B's in a passive biamp mode with your current speakers and let the dust settle for awhile.


james

1oldguy

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #41 on: 23 Jun 2009, 02:39 pm »
Hi James.......Light at the end of the Tunnel after all.It would seem I am almost full circle.Life as you know can sometimes throw you a curve ball you didn't want or expect.Both in my case,throw in  some stress and you start to get the picture.

Please forgive the noob in me.But this will help clear things up for me big time.Here Goes.
(1)So an Analog Bypass is the same thing as an HT Bypass? :duh: :oops:
(2)So  in the Future when the 5.1  side of the SP3 is out of dated and is Old and Grey as it were.......Will I be able to buy a modest 5.1  with the then "Current" movie formats and use the Bypass in the SP3  to connect it all up and use use that for the movies side of things?





James Tanner

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #42 on: 23 Jun 2009, 03:33 pm »
Hi,

1.No an analog bypass is not the same as a pass-through. A pass-through is just a circuit that allows the incoming stereo signal to be 'passed through' without any gain or changes to a set of stereo outputs.  An analog bypass is maintaining a quality analog circuit throughout the preamp or processor that is not touched by any digital circuits.

2. Honestly no one knows as we move forward what becomes obsolete and what does not. In our SP1 and SP1.7 and SP2 we were able to modify the digital boards to accommodate the new digital formats. With the introduction of Dolby HD and DTS Master as well as the need for HDMI no such option was available for the SP3. I do not see the new formats becoming old and grey anytime soon but a pass-through may be something to consider.

james

1oldguy

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #43 on: 23 Jun 2009, 03:48 pm »
Hi James

If it will have an option to hook up a new 5.1  for Movies (When such a need arises,Though I agree it would be a ways away),  It would greatly add to the appeal of buying the SP3,knowing I can keep it permanently for my 2 Channel audio.

James Tanner

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #44 on: 23 Jun 2009, 04:58 pm »
Hi 1oldguy,

I do not think I would purchase the SP3 with the idea in mind that when things get old and grey (reminds me of myself these days!) I can get a cheap receiver and use it in combination with the SP3.  Much of the cost of the SP3 will be in the digital circuitry required for the new formats and hopefully we willbe able to do modifications to that digital circuitry as things change in the future.

My feeling is that your better off investing in a great stereo setup now and give yourself some time to see where your life takes you and where the surround processors and formats go over the next year or so.

james

Daniel Datchev

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #45 on: 23 Jun 2009, 05:21 pm »
Hjavascript:void(0);i Mad Mr.H(Andy)
You described very well the option that state before every audio-lover( not necessary audiophile).
The conclusions you state are covered by Mr.Tanner, Mr.Creek( owner of Creek Audio and Epos), Vandersteen Audio and many more.
I don't know the reasons which leads some manufacturers to encourage people to go passively multi amplified speakers(horizontal multi amplified). Maybe the profit. The only thing that stops me going vertically multiamplified is that I am not sure the tweeters of my speakers can endure the direct driving by amplifier. The tweeters in active speakers of PMC are larger than in passive speakers. I've made an experiment driving only the tweeters and believe me there is not a lot difference maybe waste of money. If I need a higher SPL I have to buy a bigger( more powerful ) amplifier instead of two or three less powerful ones.Also I would prefer to have something around the price range of my current system made by PMC but unfortunately there isn't. So I`ll stay passive until they produce something to fill the gap between AML1 and MB2-A or I`ll go active with and MB2-A(fingers crossed).
Daniel

1oldguy

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #46 on: 23 Jun 2009, 05:23 pm »
Thank James

Building this system I am coming from the angle that I neither want or like the idea of buying again.So that's why my system is way out there in terms of what I have sacrificed to acquire what I have thus far.I know I will never buy any more amps or speakers even if I make it to a 100 as the saying goes.The premise is to do it right the first time with no buyers remorse.I think I've managed to do at least a decent job of picking out the right gear thus far based on my research.Though I would have done things a little differently If I knew this unexpected moved was going happen.But such is life.

I am curious though and wonder.If I do purchase the BP26, knowing there is no option to connect a 5.1 pre  directly to it,is there another way to have it all connected,but independently?and not relying on each other?So when I do want music 2 Channel, I'd fire up the BP26 and when it's movie time,fire up the 5.1 receiver I have at the time?Trying to figure out my limitations and options.Sorry If I sound like a broken Record. :oops: :duh:
 

werd

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #47 on: 23 Jun 2009, 05:47 pm »
Hjavascript:void(0);i Mad Mr.H(Andy)
You described very well the option that state before every audio-lover( not necessary audiophile).
The conclusions you state are covered by Mr.Tanner, Mr.Creek( owner of Creek Audio and Epos), Vandersteen Audio and many more.
I don't know the reasons which leads some manufacturers to encourage people to go passively multi amplified speakers(horizontal multi amplified). Maybe the profit. The only thing that stops me going vertically multiamplified is that I am not sure the tweeters of my speakers can endure the direct driving by amplifier. The tweeters in active speakers of PMC are larger than in passive speakers. I've made an experiment driving only the tweeters and believe me there is not a lot difference maybe waste of money. If I need a higher SPL I have to buy a bigger( more powerful ) amplifier instead of two or three less powerful ones.Also I would prefer to have something around the price range of my current system made by PMC but unfortunately there isn't. So I`ll stay passive until they produce something to fill the gap between AML1 and MB2-A or I`ll go active with and MB2-A(fingers crossed).
Daniel

Hello

Vertically bi amping puts another crossover in the mix(with a whole mess load of devices set in the signal path.)Horizontally biamping is far more linear(less distortion). However vertically biamping/crossover ime has always been very interesting in with a monitor/sub configuration, to each their own i guess.

James Tanner

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #48 on: 23 Jun 2009, 06:05 pm »
Hi 1oldguy,

What I have in my main sound room is an SP2 hooked up as the surround system and a BP26 hooked up as a Stereo rig. I have 2- sets of 20 foot balanced cables hooked up - one set from the Left/Right XLR outputs on the SP2 and 1 set Left/Right from the BP26 (different colours as I am easily confused). My 28B amps are in the front of the room beside my speakers - see picture.

So when I want to listen to stereo I connect the BP26 cables to the back of the amps and when I want to go surround I disconnect the BP26 cables and connect the SP2 Left/Right XLR outputs to the back of the 28B amps (the Center and Rear/Back speakers are connected to a 9B already from the SP2).

james

werd

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #49 on: 23 Jun 2009, 06:17 pm »
Hi 1oldguy,

What I have in my main sound room is an SP2 hooked up as the surround system and a BP26 hooked up as a Stereo rig. I have 2- sets of 20 foot balanced cables hooked up - one set from the Left/Right XLR outputs on the SP2 and 1 set Left/Right from the BP26. My 28B amps are in the front of the room beside my speakers - see picture.

So when I want to listen to stereo I connect the BP26 cables to the back of the amps and when I want to go surround I disconnect the BP26 cables and connect the SP2 Left/Right XLR outputs to the back of the 28B amps (the Center and Rear/Back speakers are connected to a 9B already from the SP2).

james

Come on James, show us your sp3 prototype you are using..... :).

Daniel Datchev

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #50 on: 23 Jun 2009, 06:28 pm »
Hi werd,
 I suppose  if a musician have a chance to take a look at our discussion he will be laughting for hours on end.This is just stupid. In poffesional area mixers,EQ, active crossover are the most comman. You will not find a passive speakers or very rarely in studios, concert halls, stations. Just because it is not profi orientated passive speakers are so comman in our homes.
I am frequently asking a friend of mine who adores Dynaudio, why in his car he uses active milti amplifiered drivers and stay single connection in home. He has Dynaudio Countur 3.3 with a single binding post and all profi oriented speakers are ether miltiway connected or multi amplified.
The world around us is not only black and white, there are all other colors.
Maybe for some speakers or amplifers the difference is not so obvious, but there is a difference.
On this subject you can look for John Risch articles and studies.
Daniel

werd

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #51 on: 23 Jun 2009, 07:01 pm »
Hi werd,
 I suppose  if a musician have a chance to take a look at our discussion he will be laughting for hours on end.This is just stupid. In poffesional area mixers,EQ, active crossover are the most comman. You will not find a passive speakers or very rarely in studios, concert halls, stations. Just because it is not profi orientated passive speakers are so comman in our homes.
I am frequently asking a friend of mine who adores Dynaudio, why in his car he uses active milti amplifiered drivers and stay single connection in home. He has Dynaudio Countur 3.3 with a single binding post and all profi oriented speakers are ether miltiway connected or multi amplified.
The world around us is not only black and white, there are all other colors.
Maybe for some speakers or amplifers the difference is not so obvious, but there is a difference.
On this subject you can look for John Risch articles and studies.
Daniel

Hi Daniel

Aside from around here and other hi-fi sites most musicians i know have the most putrid examples of hifi. I wouldnt rely on a typical musician for insight on hi-fi playback. Incidently active gear is selected in studios out of necessity for engineering multitrack/multi mic recordings and less of a conscious decision over full range studio monitors.

If you want less distortion go horizontal if you want more bass slam you might employ a vertical setup, to each their own.

James Tanner

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #52 on: 23 Jun 2009, 07:11 pm »
Hi Guys,

I'm not getting this  :scratch: - what is the difference between horizontal and vertical passive amplification?

james

Mad Mr H

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #53 on: 23 Jun 2009, 07:30 pm »
I`ll stay passive until they produce something to fill the gap between AML1 and MB2-A or I`ll go active with and MB2-A(fingers crossed).
Daniel

The IB1s-A and IB2s-A are between the AML1 and MB2  :wink: .

srb

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #54 on: 23 Jun 2009, 07:32 pm »
My understanding of the terminology Horizontal vs Vertical would apply to stereo amplifiers, not monoblocks.
 
Vertical would be using one stereo amp per speaker, using one channel for lows and the other for highs.
 
Horizontal might use one larger stereo amp for left and right bass, and perhaps a smaller (or tube ?) amp for left and right highs.
 
Steve

Mad Mr H

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #55 on: 23 Jun 2009, 07:38 pm »
Hi,

Well im in a mixed up world !!!

I use a 14B SST for the L & R Bass

I then use a 4B SST for Left Mid and Left HF

Another 4B SST for the Right Mid and Right HF

So a mixed up H&V world !!!


The 14B SST will soon be swopped out for a pair of 4B SST running bridge mode......

James Tanner

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #56 on: 23 Jun 2009, 07:48 pm »
I`ll stay passive until they produce something to fill the gap between AML1 and MB2-A or I`ll go active with and MB2-A(fingers crossed).
Daniel

The IB1s-A and IB2s-A are between the AML1 and MB2  :wink: .

Hi Mad,

I could be wrong here but I do not think the IB1's and IB2's are available in Active versions?



Daniel Datchev

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #57 on: 23 Jun 2009, 07:49 pm »
Hi James,
maybe is not correct to say vertical, but this include active crossover and separate amplifier(not always mono block) for every driver(cone).
Daniel

srb

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #58 on: 23 Jun 2009, 07:50 pm »
Well for you Mad Mr H, we may have to coin some new terminology!
 
Vertizontal Tri-Amping
 
or
 
Hortical Tri-Amping
 
I'm sorry, it does seem this thread is veering off topic.  Maybe it should be split into a "Multi-amping" thread.
 
Steve

Daniel Datchev

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #59 on: 23 Jun 2009, 07:50 pm »
The IB1 and IB2 are activated which means there is a power pack attached near the binding posts.
Daniel