My First Topic-What to Do

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srb

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #20 on: 22 Jun 2009, 10:32 pm »
Well, it's clearer to 1oldguy, but now I think I'm a little confused!
 
It seems that the BP-16 may have MORE features than the BP26?
 
I assume the only reason for a separate power supply would be for the sound, as I couldn't call it a feature.
 
From your website: "Bryston's BP26 series preamplifiers offer a significant step forward in capturing the subtleties, nuances and emotions of recorded music."
 
But it sounds like you are saying that since the gain stages are the same, there would be no difference in sound between the two.
 
 

1oldguy

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #21 on: 22 Jun 2009, 10:33 pm »
Ok......Maybe after reading your post things are not so clear.I await with baited breath. :D

srb

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #22 on: 22 Jun 2009, 10:38 pm »
Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you!
 
But that's one of the alluring things about Bryston gear, beyond the obvious design and build quality.  Which is James Tanner's dedication to helping out both prospective buyers and current owners.

1oldguy

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #23 on: 22 Jun 2009, 10:43 pm »
Well no prob since without your insight I wouldn't understand as much as I do at this very moment.So it's all good.
I too am interested in your latest question for James. :thumb:

vegasdave

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #24 on: 22 Jun 2009, 11:04 pm »
HI

Yes all gear is new......So new in fact it hasn't been hooked up once.
All the gear I have is paid for in full.As for what I can afford, all that's left for me to buy is a preamplifier,or course I can only buy 1 and that either has to be  strictly 2 Channel or the SP3.I guess If I keep the gear the sp3 would serve the purpose of not having to buy a pre in the future.BUT......I am open to ideas here as well. 

Also being new to all this, I was unaware I could use my center for  strictly music.Have any tried that here,what were the results,Benefits,observations?

I Do like the idea of having more than 1 system.At least I could keep my shirt as they say.Really hate the idea of losing money on gear I haven't even used to be honest.
 
The Idea of using (2) 7B's on a 802 sounds interesting.Has anyone here used BY-Amped  with a couple of 7".Impressions,observations?

Thanks for your help thus far.The last thing I want to do is rush into and make a rash decision so your help is really helpful.





Well, you could bi-amp with 4 7Bs and a 10B crossover. You might wanna consider that. That would be awesome, imo.

James Tanner

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #25 on: 22 Jun 2009, 11:18 pm »
Well, it's clearer to 1oldguy, but now I think I'm a little confused!
 
It seems that the BP-16 may have MORE features than the BP26?
 
I assume the only reason for a separate power supply would be for the sound, as I couldn't call it a feature.
 
From your website: "Bryston's BP26 series preamplifiers offer a significant step forward in capturing the subtleties, nuances and emotions of recorded music."
 
But it sounds like you are saying that since the gain stages are the same, there would be no difference in sound between the two.

Hi,

The BP26 has balanced discrete circuits on both the inputs and the outputs as well as the separate power supply outboard as you mentioned. So if quality balanced circuits are important to you then the BP26 ... if full remote control and bypass is critical then BP16. If you have only 4 sources and do not need balanced circuits or full remote then the BP6.

james

Mad Mr H

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #26 on: 23 Jun 2009, 12:11 am »
Well, you could bi-amp with 4 7Bs and a 10B crossover. You might wanna consider that. That would be awesome, imo.

Hi,

RE Bi Amping......


YOUR B&W are "passive" speakers so they hae cross overs inside the speaker cabinet.

ALL you need to do take a signal from LEFT out of preamp into TWO 7B SST, the same with the right, then run speaker cables from one amp to the "LF" from the other amp to "Mid/HF" connections on the rear of the speaker.

YOU MUST REMOVE ANY LINK WIRE OR CONNECTION from the rear of the speaker FIRST - IF you decide to do this post a picture o the rear of the speaker and people can talk you through what to do - OR your dealer will be able to set this up for you.


IF your speakers were active (NO internal cross over) then you would use  Bryston 10b - You do NOT need this in YOUR current system.

Hope that clears that bit up for you.

(It is possible to rewire the internals of the speakers to be active, But if you knew how to do that you would not be asking the questions you have......So I have not gone into that)

Andy.

mitcho

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #27 on: 23 Jun 2009, 04:10 am »

Wondering if anyone has used there regular 2 Channel audio system for their T.V,and with what results positive or negative.

I use my stereo system in the family room with TV all the time.  I have no problem with it.  So  positive results

Levi

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #28 on: 23 Jun 2009, 05:21 am »
Sorry to hear you are thinking about selling your equipment.  Audio gears unlike camera gears have high resale value.  :thumb: 

What to do or What not to do...take a long walk and think about what you really like. ;)


1oldguy

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #29 on: 23 Jun 2009, 05:52 am »
Well, you could bi-amp with 4 7Bs and a 10B crossover. You might wanna consider that. That would be awesome, imo.

Hi,

RE Bi Amping......


YOUR B&W are "passive" speakers so they hae cross overs inside the speaker cabinet.

ALL you need to do take a signal from LEFT out of preamp into TWO 7B SST, the same with the right, then run speaker cables from one amp to the "LF" from the other amp to "Mid/HF" connections on the rear of the speaker.

YOU MUST REMOVE ANY LINK WIRE OR CONNECTION from the rear of the speaker FIRST - IF you decide to do this post a picture o the rear of the speaker and people can talk you through what to do - OR your dealer will be able to set this up for you.


IF your speakers were active (NO internal cross over) then you would use  Bryston 10b - You do NOT need this in YOUR current system.

Hope that clears that bit up for you.

(It is possible to rewire the internals of the speakers to be active, But if you knew how to do that you would not be asking the questions you have......So I have not gone into that)

Andy.


Thanks for the insight.As for rewiring the speakers to make them active I think like you that for my experience is best left alone.
As for the Bi-Amping I am not sure about the wiring in the new place but at least I do like the sound of the idea.
As for as the Bp16  and the BP26 I do admit I am still curious since it's not clear to me if there are sonic differences between the two.Other factors are a phone stage......because at some point I do want to add a record player at least on a modest level.
And I have a feeling I may end up with a DAC for the music I have that needs a little extra shine.I also realize I  really prefer a center channel too,for movies at least for me I do want to keep it,so I realize thanks you you all I will need a HT Pass Through.
Of course I could save for the Video-Less version of the SP3 but wonder if that is the way I should go and if for 2 Channel audio if it would be better than the Bp16?Thinking out loud......but thanks to all your help it getting clearer.So If I am veering of into the wrong direction please feel free to say so.I am trying to figure out whats best for the long term,and by that i mean permanently.If I do go for the SP3 then I know I'd never buy another one.But if I went with the BP16 I could get what I guess is considered at least a modest 5.1 pre every few years and my 2 Channel would be a  constant.So again your input is invaluable. 

As for the long walk I agree.....since it's taken 4 Years of scrimping to get this far.

vegasdave

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #30 on: 23 Jun 2009, 06:32 am »
Go with the Bryston phono stage, I have one in my BP6, and it's awesome!!

vegasdave

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #31 on: 23 Jun 2009, 06:35 am »
Well, you could bi-amp with 4 7Bs and a 10B crossover. You might wanna consider that. That would be awesome, imo.

Hi,

RE Bi Amping......


YOUR B&W are "passive" speakers so they hae cross overs inside the speaker cabinet.

ALL you need to do take a signal from LEFT out of preamp into TWO 7B SST, the same with the right, then run speaker cables from one amp to the "LF" from the other amp to "Mid/HF" connections on the rear of the speaker.

YOU MUST REMOVE ANY LINK WIRE OR CONNECTION from the rear of the speaker FIRST - IF you decide to do this post a picture o the rear of the speaker and people can talk you through what to do - OR your dealer will be able to set this up for you.


IF your speakers were active (NO internal cross over) then you would use  Bryston 10b - You do NOT need this in YOUR current system.

Hope that clears that bit up for you.

(It is possible to rewire the internals of the speakers to be active, But if you knew how to do that you would not be asking the questions you have......So I have not gone into that)

Andy.

Hmm...I thought all you needed was separate amplifiers for each frequency, and an electronic crossover. I never knew you had to change things internally.

Is there any advantage to passive bi-amping?

srb

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #32 on: 23 Jun 2009, 09:18 am »
The technically superior method is active bi-amping.
 
PASSIVE bi-amping would be taking the full-range signal from each channel of the preamp, splitting it with a y-connector and sending that full-range signal into separate amplifiers.  Then, at the external speaker posts you would remove the jumpers between the woofer and tweeter sections, as you can't connect the outputs of the two amplifiers together.
 
Each amplifier is still amplifying the full-range signal, which is filtered by the speaker's passive crossover, and obviously the speaker would have to be already bi-wired with two sets of speaker posts wired internally to the woofer and tweeter sections.
 
ACTIVE bi-amping would be taking the full-range signal from each channel of the preamp, then sending that full-range signal to an electronic crossover.  The electronic crossover then sends filtered low and high frequency line-level signals to separate amplifiers.
 
In this case, you don't want to send the already filtered signals through the speaker's passive crossover, but instead directly to the woofer and tweeter drivers, bypassing the internal passive crossover.
 
Advantages:
1.  Each amplifier now just has to amplify either the high frequencies only or the low frequencies only.
2.  You have eliminated the undesireable effects that a passive crossover might present as a load to the amplifier, including power delivery and phase changes to the signal.
3.  The electronic crossover is tweakable with fully adjustable control of crossover frequency, slope and phase.
 
Disadvantages:
1.  Cost
2.  Complexity
3.  Implementation
 
If the speaker is a 3-way, you could tri-amp with 3 amplifiers or bi-amp with 2 and utilize the internal passive crossover between the midrange and tweeter.
 
The suggestion to the OP to passively bi-amp was probably made because he already owns the amplifiers and doesn't necessarily want to sell them at this time, not because it would necessarily provide a performance increase relative to the cost of two extra amplifiers.

vegasdave

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Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #33 on: 23 Jun 2009, 09:33 am »
Thanks for the info!!!

Well, you wouldn't need a y connector if you have 2 sets of outputs as Bryston preamps do.

srb

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #34 on: 23 Jun 2009, 09:40 am »
Thanks for the info!!!

Well, you wouldn't need a y connector if you have 2 sets of outputs as Bryston preamps do.

You are correct, sir!

Mad Mr H

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #35 on: 23 Jun 2009, 10:28 am »
EDIT - SRB posted whilst I was typing..........



Hi VegasDave,

This is info on Passive & Active Bi Wire & Bi Amping - Not 100% to do with the original post, But I hope of use....


1. The "standard" domestic style speaker will have an internal cross over.
Lets consider a "2 way" system, that has Bass and a High Frequency (HF) driver in one cabinet.
This will usually have one cable from one amplifier channel that drives the entire speaker.
This is the most basic and common speaker type. Known as a Single wire Passive 2 way speaker.

2. The next logical step is to "Bi Wire" the same passive 2 way speaker.
Still using one amp channel two sets of wires are run to the speaker.
One for the HF and one for the bass - This requires the speaker to have FOUR terminals on it designed for "Bi Wire" application, You usually have a link wire or link bar between terminals that needs to be removed for "Bi Wire" use.
The advantage of this over option 1. is the reduction of resistance in the speaker cable. It can also be a step between 1. and 3. as he cable can be adapted fo the next step.

3. The next logical step is to "Bi Amp" the same passive 2 way speaker. This requires two amplifier channels per speaker, One to drive the HF and one for the BASS. The signal from the preamp is split and sent to both amp channels, The link wire/bar is removed from the rear of the speaker, One speaker cable from each amp to either the HF or Bass connection. This type of Bi Amping still uses the internal cross over of the speaker. The advantage is that the amp driving the HF does not have the demand of the bass. This is know as a "Bi Amping a passive speaker"

4. The final option is "Active 2 way Bi Amp" system. This requires an active cross over (Bryston 10B). This is placed in the signal path after the preamp but prior to the amplifiers, This Active cross over now splits the full range signal and sends specific frequencies on to each amplifier. Bass to the Bass amp, HF to the HF amp.
This now means each amp is more efficient and dedicated to specific frequencies.
Each amp is then wired to the specific bass/HF driver of the speaker. The speaker for thisapplication should be an "Active speaker" . An Active speaker has no internal cross over. Fully active systems are usually found in commercial applications where the advantage of a high Sound Pressure Level (SPL) is required. There is still an audio advantage in a fully active system. The removal of the speaker cross over allows a more linear response (frequecy vs Impedance) from the driver and more efficient use of power from the amps

Note 1: The active cross over mentioned in point 4. can have additional controls crossover point, slope, gain, polarity - Thats another topic.

Note 2: ALL Bryston amps have the same gain structure so in a Passive 2 (3,4,5...) way system ANY amp could be used for any "way" of the speaker. The more powerful amplifiers are usually used for the Bass.



PLEASE NOTE : Typed in a hurry! So I will need to go back over and check this reads correctly. I also have some pictures which I will add for clarity. I will put this in its own thread over the weekend asthis may be of use to others, I always meant to do this on other forums I am member/moderator.

All the best,

Andy.

Mad Mr H

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #36 on: 23 Jun 2009, 10:38 am »
Hi,

Yes - the mention of Bi Amp in THIS situation was ONLY due to the member already owning the amps and not sure what options were available to him, Or what the future might offer.....

So keeping and using as many as possible seemed the best value for money.

OR take a hit in selling new boxed items.

Keeping 7B's four meant the dealer might consider taking one back , rather than three!

They could be used in future expansion back towards a 5ch system.........

In this thread the we need to consider the situation as well as the products already bought and whats needed.

IF you keep a Left, Center, Right systema and run all five 7B's then you only have the rear speakers left over, If new in box I would ask the dealer if you can part ex them for a processor........

IF you like your films then I would go 5ch processor.


If its stereo then keep four 7B's and the 802D - Sell one 7B and theother other 3 speakers.

For me with that kit list I would keep Left, center, right..........But thats my opinion based on my personal choice.....

Andy.

1oldguy

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #37 on: 23 Jun 2009, 10:47 am »
Hi.....Things Still pondered.Now know  I'm getting old when your quoting myself.

quote:As for as the Bp16  and the BP26 I do admit I am still curious since it's not clear to me if there are sonic differences between the two.
I could save for the Video-Less version of the SP3 but wonder if that is the way I should go and if for 2 Channel audio if it would be better than the Bp16?Thinking out loud......So If I am veering of into the wrong direction please feel free to say so.I am trying to figure out whats best for the long term,and by that I mean permanently.If I do go for the SP3 then I know I'd never buy another one.But if I went with the BP16 I could get what I guess is considered at least a modest 5.1 pre every few years since they do seem to have a somewhat short life and my 2 Channel would be a  constant.

Insight gain Through this tread:
Keep the center channel,Movies Only
Want A DAC,
Want a Phone stage
Possibe pasive Bi-Amp


Mad Mr H

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #38 on: 23 Jun 2009, 12:41 pm »
Onkyo 886 is a cheap fair quality 5.1 processor.......

I could not afford o replace my Lexicon MC12Bv5 with the HD (HDMI)version so I went for the Onkyo.

For cinema use its ok/good - for analogue not so......

BUT I do believe the best way o do 2ch and 5.1 is two seperate systems, in this case space limits that option.


Do you have a Blu Ray player ? for films or will this be via cable/sat?


1oldguy

Re: My First Topic-What to Do
« Reply #39 on: 23 Jun 2009, 02:20 pm »
I have the Pioneer 09fd for a blue ray player so I won't need video processing.
I would have loved for the Bryston BP26 To have the HT Bypass that was spoken of.Would have gone that route in a heart beat.
My reasoning is that if going for the Sp3 with the 2 channel and the 5.1 together is great and all for those who have the funds to Upgrade but that isn't my situation.I can save to get the sp3 but when the 5.1 format marches on at some point it has to be tossed out.So I guess I find it difficult to see myself getting rid of a perfectly fine 2 channel side to the SP3.Now If the SP3 will have a ht bypass would that solve the problem if I want to use in the future a current stand alone 5.1 hooked up to it for movies?