Here we go again!!!

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danman

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Here we go again!!!
« on: 19 Jun 2009, 12:34 am »
 :duh:

Looks like the Martin Logan Club site is at it again! My God, what is it with that site that they can't get over using Bryston?

I heard the exact same set-up last week and it was no where near what this "Dudley" guy is saying!

I have never seen anything so pathetic coming from a bunch of know it all's that 99% NEVER even heard a Bryston! Jealous that we can have great sound for half the price they paid and only have a 3 year warrantee!

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=13

Go see where it says "Dudley's comments on the CLX"

James Tanner

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #1 on: 19 Jun 2009, 12:52 am »
Hi Danman,

Well its nice to see what the first respose to that post was:

I heard the same set up at the show and I can only conclude poor ol' Dudley has wax in his ears - hence the congestion - and needs a tune up ASAP!

Now, I am not going to get embroiled again in the debate about using Bryston amps, but this was a great sound, very open dynamic and how could you not lust after a pair of CLX's after hearing them in Montreal. Not the best sound in the show, I admit. That was coupdefoudre's room with the Wilson's and mega expensive Pathos electronic driven by a master tape source.


The CLX's still remain top of my most wanted list.
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my system here: http://gator11.hostgator.com/~tdacqu...ead.php?t=8918



Not to mentiom this one from one of Stereophiles senior writers:

http://blog.stereophile.com/ssi2009/martinlogan_meets_bryston/

danman

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #2 on: 19 Jun 2009, 12:58 am »
Are they not from the same publication?

2 different sets of ears!

James Tanner

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #3 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:01 am »
Are they not from the same publication?

2 different sets of ears!

Hi danman,

Yes Bob is also from Stereophile.

james

danman

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #4 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:09 am »
Maybe they should communicate! But in his defense, I guess they are his ears :scratch:

twitch54

Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #5 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:14 am »
:duh:

Looks like the Martin Logan Club site is at it again! My God, what is it with that site that they can't get over using Bryston?



Dan, with all due respect "we" are not up to anything. The 'OP' on that thread merely quoted Dudleys comments. he went so far as to ponder what was the cause ....source, amps, etc.

Truthfully you do have a way with taking things out of context, if you noted my response, it was a polite way of saying........who gives a crap what Dudley says !

Bottom Line_____________ if you like the synergy....great.....somebody else dosen't..... tough tities !!!


James Tanner

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #6 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:26 am »
Here's another comment I got from the show.

Montreal Show Comments:

I'm now forced to examine my preconceptions regarding the "Bryston" sound.

Bryston Demo System Montreal 2009
This system really surprised me in that the 1000W 28SST^2 mated with the Bryston pre,dac, and transport were able to sound delicate even timid and tremulous when the music called for it.

Often times big power amps can't play the blushing virgin very well. The presentation was also not particularly forward, it was confident relaxed and the sound came effortlessly instead of with an under current of "need to impress".

Shawn

danman

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #7 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:48 am »
:duh:

Looks like the Martin Logan Club site is at it again! My God, what is it with that site that they can't get over using Bryston?



Dan, with all due respect "we" are not up to anything. The 'OP' on that thread merely quoted Dudleys comments. he went so far as to ponder what was the cause ....source, amps, etc.

Truthfully you do have a way with taking things out of context, if you noted my response, it was a polite way of saying........who gives a crap what Dudley says !

Bottom Line_____________ if you like the synergy....great.....somebody else dosen't..... tough tities !!!

What context? He said what he said! These Bryston subjects always seem to come up on the ML site! Why is that?

I listened for over 2 hours last week to the same system and I tried really hard to find these so called faults.

danman

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #8 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:50 am »
This Dudley dude should also know that a panel speaker in hotel room full of flowery carpet does not mix very well!

vegasdave

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #9 on: 19 Jun 2009, 02:46 am »
danman, forget those guys...we know what the good stuff is! I agree that Bryston deserves more respect, but consider this...there's no such thing as bad publicity!

James Tanner

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #10 on: 19 Jun 2009, 03:44 am »
Dealer Letter Regarding Bryston PP300 and ML Speakers.

"Hey James:

Here is the pic (see page 2).

The system uses a total of five PowerPac 300s for the front three speakers. We had an electrician drop in a 20A service for the Bryston amps. The side surrounds (Martin Logan Aeons) and rear surrounds are driven by a big ? theater amp which will be getting replaced shortly with a couple of Bryston 3Bs. We are even knocking around the idea of using PowerPac 120s for the side surround Martins to free up rack space and improve bass control.

The amps driving the Martin Logan front panels and the one driving the center channel are mounted vertically to the back frame of the Bello rack below the plasma. They look absolutely perfect there and of course take up no rack space. Their shade of black and semi-gloss finish even matches that of the rack. Each Odessey has another PowerPac 300 for driving the cones mounted directly to its top plate using (no I'm not kidding) a specialized 3M double-sided tape. This tape is used to attach body panels in some automotive applications. It will never slip, is impervious to anything but a nuclear blast (even that is questionable) but is removable with the right technique. We wanted something that would hold the amps in place as well as screws, but would not damage the speaker?s finish and look as clean as possible. This stuff does the trick.

My client was very skeptical, but she isn?t anymore. Another benefit to using the tape is that there are no screw heads showing above the amp's mounting flanges. We took a black notebook spline and slid it over the flange to hide the screw slots. Again, it looks perfectly stock. Since these pictures were taken, we have encased the speaker and power wires with woven jackets so all of the cables on the back of the speakermatch.

The system looks as good as it sounds, and it sounds simply unbelievable. I've never heard Martin Logan's sound better. Smooth as silk, a soundstage as big as a stadium, imaging that can scare you with the right close-mic-ed material, but with enough energy to vibrate the sheetrock screws out of the walls. Some people (and I've been one of them) say that electrostatics can't rock and roll. Put Bryston! on them and they'll hurt you.

Thanks for your time, James."

Tim Rhoads
Chief Scientist
Rhoads A/V Consultants
Independent consultant services for the A/V industry

vegasdave

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #11 on: 19 Jun 2009, 04:36 am »
Very cool.

mitcho

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #12 on: 19 Jun 2009, 05:51 am »
:duh:

Looks like the Martin Logan Club site is at it again! My God, what is it with that site that they can't get over using Bryston?



Dan, with all due respect "we" are not up to anything. The 'OP' on that thread merely quoted Dudleys comments. he went so far as to ponder what was the cause ....source, amps, etc.

Truthfully you do have a way with taking things out of context, if you noted my response, it was a polite way of saying........who gives a crap what Dudley says !

Bottom Line_____________ if you like the synergy....great.....somebody else dosen't..... tough tities !!!

 I disagree with Dudley's assessment and so did others on the site.  His comments were also opposite to others in his magazine who supported the combination.   I would think the combination of the two would be complimentary if anything.

I don't think we have to be concerned with what Dudley has to say.  It would not be the first time that two reviewers were at polar opposites.   

I would think the Martin Logan owners were no more pleased with his comments than we are.   

I am sure others have heard the combination and were impressed with it.


danman

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #13 on: 19 Jun 2009, 12:23 pm »
danman, forget those guys...we know what the good stuff is! I agree that Bryston deserves more respect, but consider this...there's no such thing as bad publicity!

True............all publicity is good! However, I am just a little disappointed by the ML site because I own both Bryston and ML but my opinions of their sound together were never respected after the incident of a few weeks ago! I did not realise that some people on that forum were so short sighted that they cannot believe another product powering them besides the 3 or 4 models they all use at 2 to 3 times the price is at least as good and sometimes better depending on personal taste.

I know I should not bring this topic up because you all know what it does to me however, to be honest, I was very peed at the notion of snobiness that I received from them based on people that never even heard the set up in the first place! I was so happy to have listened last week to see for myself and at the same time also listen to other models. This gave me a better perspective of what this combination sounds like in the right settings.

Even before this event took place I did notice that everytime I would ask certain questions concerning ML products, some people would answer quite bluntly if they did not think it was relevent. It seems that some only want to pretend how much they think they know and are so rapped up in their little minds that they forget to just listen to music! It is not a forum I plan on returning to anytime soon and I am sure they don't want me anyways! :nono:

mitcho

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #14 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:02 pm »
danman, forget those guys...we know what the good stuff is! I agree that Bryston deserves more respect, but consider this...there's no such thing as bad publicity!

True............all publicity is good! However, I am just a little disappointed by the ML site because I own both Bryston and ML but my opinions of their sound together were never respected after the incident of a few weeks ago! I did not realise that some people on that forum were so short sighted that they cannot believe another product powering them besides the 3 or 4 models they all use at 2 to 3 times the price is at least as good and sometimes better depending on personal taste.

I know I should not bring this topic up because you all know what it does to me however, to be honest, I was very peed at the notion of snobiness that I received from them based on people that never even heard the set up in the first place! I was so happy to have listened last week to see for myself and at the same time also listen to other models. This gave me a better perspective of what this combination sounds like in the right settings.

Even before this event took place I did notice that everytime I would ask certain questions concerning ML products, some people would answer quite bluntly if they did not think it was relevent. It seems that some only want to pretend how much they think they know and are so rapped up in their little minds that they forget to just listen to music! It is not a forum I plan on returning to anytime soon and I am sure they don't want me anyways! :nono:

well you are welcome here.

One thing that we all have to deal with, are certain fallacies about the sonics of Bryston equipment.  Most have not heard recent equipment manufactured by the company.   So they tend to spout off thoughts they really have no knowledge of.  That forum is no different than any other forum.   There are posters on the site that know what  they write and then there are others that just wish to hear themselves and they want acceptance so they write what they think the majority would approve of.

Now if their speakers only sounds good on 2 or 3 products, then they seem to have a problem with their product.   Knowing ML, they match well a large number of electronics.   

Having owned hundreds+ and I mean + of systems over the years, there are few mainstream products I have not owned.  Bryston owners have nothing to apologize for.   So I would not be concerned with what they write or Dudley.

Now when you sit and listen to your system, can any of you hear diffused/ hazy mids and highs?   I doubt it.   Any of you that own ML, can you hear diffused/ hazy mids and highs?   I doubt that as well.   As one poster on that site stated, Dudley needed to clean out his ears.   Even another writer at Stereophile wrote that he had not heard ML sound as good.  Well, who knows what frame of mind Dudley was in?   

Who cares?  Nor should we care if some other site prefer other electronics over what we have settled on.  I really could care less.  I have owned the ML CLS and the last thing I would think with the Bryston is how Dudley described it.

Perceptions and old news is sometimes hard to live down.   So there is a perception that Bryston is bright/ etchy yada yada yada.   Well, we all know that is not true and if most were to listen to Bryston blindly, they would have a definite different opinion on it.   I know I have changed my mind about it.

I really could care less what they or other sites write about the equipment I presently own.  At the end of the day, it is not going to affect what I own or prefer.  If Bryston was so bad, then there would be no demand for our equipment on the secondary market (used).   Well that is not the case.   The equipment keeps it's value and is definitely easy to sell.

If it was such a poor match, I am sure ML themselves would not be asking Bryston to demo with them.  NOR would James be owning a pair matched up with our equipment.

danman

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #15 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:14 pm »
That is a great response and I totally agree.

It is not that I cared what they said, it is how they said it that got me going!

The last thing I expected when I initially sent in James's comments, was what happened! I though they would be thrilled, instead, I upset the little boys club and they tell me I take things out of context!!!

mitcho

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #16 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:21 pm »
That is a great response and I totally agree.

It is not that I cared what they said, it is how they said it that got me going!

The last thing I expected when I initially sent in James's comments, was what happened! I though they would be thrilled, instead, I upset the little boys club and they tell me I take things out of context!!!

both sides should open their minds and explore the combination.  You have had good results, so has James and if other comments about the demo at the show is any indication, more should try the two.

danman

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #17 on: 19 Jun 2009, 01:26 pm »
Agreed!

Laundrew

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Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #18 on: 19 Jun 2009, 04:24 pm »
I think that this is starting to get old really fast.

I am a new comer to high end audio and I am at a loss to understand some attitudes I have seen displayed more often than not - I would almost state that some of these attitudes boarders on snobbery (from some audio dealers and enthusiasts).

I have listened to dealers call other manufacturers products sh*t, in fact he was referring to the power amplifiers that I eventually decided was right for me. Did it bother me? Of course not - that was his opinion, but what was more valuable to me was that it showed me the type of individual he was. I believe that it is safe to say that we all have a passion for music - lets face it, if we did not, we would still be happy with our Super 8 transistor radios (in my case, it would be my DX160). Could it be that after individuals spend a large sum of cash on audio equipment - their egos may be hurt if someone does not like their audio system?

What I am trying to say is that people will find out what sounds great to them and purchase accordingly - regardless of what other people might say about their choice. When I started my search for audio equipment a little over a year ago, I thought that $15K for the whole system would be just about right for the sound quality I wanted. How did I make out? Well, the speaker purchase ate up most of the original $15K budget and the power amplifiers lists for more than that. I still have to decide on a preamplifier and CD player.

So, at the end of the day, if people say this amp sounds terrible with these speakers - so what? If they like the sound of amplifier X with their speakers - I am truly happy for them. What sounds great to one person may not sound great to another. If a few individuals wish to stir the pot and base their opinions on ignorance - who really cares, will you enjoy your system any less?

In my case, I had never heard of Bryston until a short time ago and I used to live outside of and went to school in Peterborough! What is fortunate is that we have a forum such as this site where we all can share our interests and experiences with Bryston audio equipment.

Lets all play fair in the sandbox   aa

werd

Re: Here we go again!!!
« Reply #19 on: 19 Jun 2009, 04:30 pm »
We should start our own ML club!!!!!   Hang on, i dont own ML's.  NVM