Trying out vinyl for the second time. Advice?

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #60 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 05:24 pm »

Pardon a noob here, but would paper sleeves be bad simply due to the paper fiber 'fuzz' that falls off the sleeve into the grooves, thereby forcing the needle to "snowplow" the fibers from the grooves? Plastic wouldn't have that. But on the other hand, wouldn't plastic be more inclined to generate static compared to paper when the vinyl is being slid in and out of the sleeve?

Bob

JackD201 · « **Reply #61 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 05:31 pm »

That's somewhat of a relief Wayner. For a second there I thought it was paper in general as opposed to paper sleeves with holes in them that you were warning against. After rereading the thread though I realized that you used paper sleeves and that the sleeves you recommend are likewise paper except that the holes are filled in with poly liners so they don't "pucker".

I have scores of near mint LPs from the golden age that survived four or five decades scuff free with their factory paper sleeves. So my interest was piqued a little bit.

Anyway back on the OP's question on static and not general record care. Generally, paper equals less static than the plastic prevalent in the pressings from the 70s to the early 90s. So that's that.

So folks, in the event that you are stuck with holes in your paper sleeves just pull out the records the way they are supposed to be pulled out hole or no hole. It's an old trick used bu archivists and collectors to minimize handling wear and tear of the LP, Sleeve and Jacket. If you're right handed, hold the LP in your left hand and gently press the jacket against your chest until it opens up but not so much that the LP itself is squeezed between your hand and your chest. The sleeve should slide right out easily. Repeat the process with the sleeve and you should be able to insert four fingers into the sleeve and again slide the LP out with four fingers on the reverse label and your thumb on the record edge. Doing all this in reverse also makes reinserting the LP and sleeve much much easier and thus less aggravating. You shouldn't experience any puckering but if it happens that means the sleeve has been stretched out and needs replacing anyway.

Static is a function of humidity as well as friction. If you are in a dry state or use air conditioning a lot that Milty will come in more handy than if you weren't and didn't.

Bob,

That fuzz can't be harder than the hairs on a carbon fiber brush. Still, minimize the friction by following the steps above and only the raised part on an LP's outer fringe should be in contact with the sleeve. So the paper shouldn't get fuzzy at all. If it does, time to replace it.

All the best,

Jack

Browntrout · « **Reply #62 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 05:32 pm »

I don't just use the Zerostat for records, if you point it at your tweeters and woofers and give them each a zap you can (or at least I assume you could as I can) hear a difference. Certainly a tension is removed from the air when the gun is used.

lcrim · « **Reply #63 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 05:47 pm »

The sleeves are paper on the outside but poly lined. Keeping your older records in their original paper sleeves is foolish after they've been cleaned as the original paper sleeves can be both filthy and abrasive. I use the poly-lined sleeves also and the cost is minimal in comparison to replacing the record.
IMO, the static guns are a total waste of time and money.

Browntrout · « **Reply #64 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 06:59 pm »

It's funny how some find them usefull and others don't. I guess it's the same for most things.

lcrim · « **Reply #65 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 07:17 pm »

Several times in the past, I've recommended a product-Pledge Dust & Alergen Unscented Dry Cloths-Electrostatic Disposable Cloths. A pack can be found at your local supermarket for a few dollars. I've seen and heard them remove or dramatically lower pops and clicks. It actually works. Throw it away after a bit and use another one.
Thats in addition to using a vacuum cleaning record machine w/ a commercial cleaning solution and rinsed w/ distilled water. Also clean and inspect the stylus regularly.

Wayner · « **Reply #66 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 07:46 pm »

The degree of success with a static gun varies, because some people use them while other people abuse them. You can't see the static stream so some think "if a little is good, then alot is great". Those people are making the problem worse, buy supercharging the LP surface. They are to be zapped occasionally with one slow pull of the trigger, then a slow release of the trigger at about 12" from the center of the surface on both sides. Not 2 times or 5 times. Like I said before, the only time I really have a static problem is with new records.

The MOFI sleeves I use are all plastic, with a paper sleeve imbedded on one side. They are the same sleeves you get when you buy a MOFI LP. MOFI says " Protect from scratches, static-build up and contamination". I believe them as I have used these sleeves for years.

Wayner

JackD201 · « **Reply #67 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 10:27 am »

Larry, That looks interesting. I'll go grab a few boxes when I'm in the US next. None available here. Brushes take some dust off but just scatter the rest.

Wayner, I've seen it abused too. Some people I've observed use the Milty like they were doing drive by shootings. A few clicks is all that's needed really using the hairs on the back of my hand to check for static build up before and after. I also stand corrected on your choice of sleeves. I should try them out. The Nagaoka Rice Paper sleeves are wonderful but expensive.

Our air here is terrible. You can really see how much more dust gets attracted to an un-zapped LP. That's another factor too when considering a stat gun I guess....airborn particulates.

kgturner · « **Reply #68 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 01:42 pm »

Thanks for keeping the sage advice coming guys. I live in south Alabama and we're in the middle of a heat wave, coupled with the already high humidity (70+%). Not to mention that I have two dogs in the home so dust, hair, and static are obvious issues. I'll try out the Pledge wipes mentioned.

I guess while my collection is small (26 albums - 35 actual LPs) and easier to maintain, I should invest in some good storage sleeves for them. I was thinking about purchasing the Mobile Fidelity inner sleeves and 3 mil resealable outer sleeves from Sleevetown. Anybody have any objections or better suggestions?

Kevin T

kenreau · « **Reply #69 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 04:41 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 22 Jun 2009, 07:17 pm

Several times in the past, I've recommended a product-Pledge Dust & Alergen Unscented Dry Cloths-Electrostatic Disposable Cloths. A pack can be found at your local supermarket for a few dollars. I've seen and heard them remove or dramatically lower pops and clicks. It actually works. Throw it away after a bit and use another one.
Thats in addition to using a vacuum cleaning record machine w/ a commercial cleaning solution and rinsed w/ distilled water. Also clean and inspect the stylus regularly.

How do you use or apply the Pledge cloths?

Do you wipe the platter surface with these as well?

Thx,
Kenreau

lcrim · « **Reply #70 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 07:02 pm »

Wipe the surface of the record. You can't over do it.

kgturner · « **Reply #71 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 01:28 am »

here's a new question:

what is the average stylus life? i would hope 1000+ hours.

kevin t

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #72 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 01:55 am »

Quote from: kgturner on 30 Jun 2009, 01:28 am

here's a new question:

what is the average stylus life? i would hope 1000+ hours.

kevin t

For spherical...less than 500 hours. For elliptical, somewhere between 500 and 1000 hours. For shibata, 'line' stylus, Gyger, van den Hul, microridge, stereohedron and others...often over 1000 hours.

However, for $40, a bottle of LAST Stylast and religious application can extend tip life to 10x normal. I have my original bottle bought in 1988 and it's only half empty today

I can (partially) vouch for it's effectiveness as I was breaking in a Denon DL-160vdH recently, applied the Stylast from the get-go, and kept complaining how pinched the cartridge sounded for over 100 hours. Normal break in time for a stylus is 20-40 hours max.

Well I delayed my pleasure by 3-5x as long because I applied Stylast to the brand new stylus. No tip takes 100+ hours to wear in....the Stylast retarded the normal wear-in process

Amortized over the years and usefulness...the $40 is money well spent

John

kenreau · « **Reply #73 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 07:32 pm »

John & AC gang,

I've just jumped back into vinyl after a 10 yr hiatus and have been purchasing record care products recently. One product I never recall reading good or bad comments about is LAST Record Preservative.

10 yrs ago the vinyl kit I bought had a bottle included with it and I used it without any problems or issues. I sold the whole system off after 2 years and never really knew what the long term benefits were, if any. One nice feature was the little silver sticker dots you could put on the label to indicate they were cleaned and treated.

Any concensus if it is worth the extra funds and time?

Thx.
Kenreau

BobM · « **Reply #74 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 07:46 pm »

I wouldn't recommend using anything on any part of a turntable or record unless the goal is to clean it as much as possible. I haven't tried Stylast, but I do use the Last stylus cleaning product. I also haven't directly compared the record treatment to a clean record, so I can't say from first hand experience.

But I have found that cleanliness definitely makes a difference sonically when dealing with records, new or used, so I have a hard time believing that any product applied to a stylus or a record wouldn't degrade the sound to some extent.

Bob

lcrim · « **Reply #75 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 10:17 pm »

I agree w/ Bob on this one. After going to all that trouble to get a record clean I couldn't spray some crap on it.
Also, the stylus life quoted by John seems terribly pessimistic. With decently clean records. I would expect to get 1000 hours in most cases.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #76 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 02:07 am »

Quote from: kenreau on 30 Jun 2009, 07:32 pm

I've just jumped back into vinyl after a 10 yr hiatus and have been purchasing record care products recently. One product I never recall reading good or bad comments about is LAST Record Preservative.

Any concensus if it is worth the extra funds and time?

Thx.
Kenreau

It's a leap of faith with me, frankly

Joe Fritsch, Chief Engineer of Trackmate and Allsop, told me they indeed work as advertised - so I have trusted that they do for 20 years now.

Without his esteemed word, I'd be wary, too (the stuff ain't cheap at $37 a bottle to do maybe 100 album sides)

I cannot vouch for it as I have been preserving all my records with it for 20 years now - including those I bought earlier in life.

It won't and does not improve already doomed records - that much I can tell you (some yahoo reviewer at either AS or Stereophile once claimed he heard a HUGE difference on a record before and after LAST preserving it....I have never, frankly, heard such betterment)

The stuff retards damage by your needle up to 200x...it cannot correct past insults to the grooves by previous playback or music lovers.

So, there's my honest assessment of the product. I merely hope it works

My apologies to yahoo reviewer if he's tuning into this topic (you'd be surprised what industry cognoscenti is tuned into AudioCircle nowadays

)

John

JackD201 · « **Reply #77 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 07:50 am »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 1 Jul 2009, 02:07 am

My apologies to yahoo reviewer if he's tuning into this topic (you'd be surprised what industry cognoscenti is tuned into AudioCircle nowadays )

John

One of them is particularly thin skinned to boot and loves going on rants when he feels slighted. I wonder if he was the one.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #78 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 07:45 pm »

Quote from: JackD201 on 1 Jul 2009, 07:50 am

One of them is particularly thin skinned to boot and loves going on rants when he feels slighted. I wonder if he was the one.

Actually, I wasn't referring to anyone in particular as I don't remember the yahoo reviewer who mentioned it

John

kgturner · « **Reply #79 on:** 3 Jul 2009, 05:45 pm »

i'm getting a lot of static build up on my records after a couple of spins. i use a hunt brush on my records before playing, but it seems to do little to nothing regarding the increase of static while playing. the last two records i removed from the platter were very staticly charged and i could hear pops conducted through the stylus over my speakers when the record is in my hands and 2+ feet away from the stylus. this seems mighty excessive to me. anybody have any ideas how to stop this?

kevin t