Headphone amp?

modwright · « **Reply #20 on:** 12 Jun 2009, 08:55 pm »

Thanks for that Srajan! This is very good info! I do intend to do a DAC with USB inputs, but that requires more time than I have right now with the amp and a couple of other projects. It WILL be done, but not this year.

I will seriously look into a headphone amp with the options you mentioned.

Take care,

Dan

deutscherhififan · « **Reply #21 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 03:53 am »

There is definitely some very strong competition established in the headphone amp market. If you look at 'headamp specialists' like Woo Audio you know that the bar has been raised VERY high. (Disclaimer: I own one and love it).

C17FXR · « **Reply #22 on:** 22 Jul 2009, 02:52 am »

Quote from: modwright on 7 Jun 2009, 01:22 am

Wow, thanks guys! Good info and much appreciated!

I had always considered using our preamp circuits to drive headphones, as they are high-current designs to begin with.

I had not considered the notion of a < 50W integrated that was also a great headphone amp. I am thinking that a 30W or so, pure Class A or close to it, design, could be quite interesting in this regard.

This is exactly what I'm currently looking for. Was considering having my current headphone amp upgraded with all these features but if your building one I'm willing to wait and have it added to my order for the upgraded Sony XA5400ES.

CometCKO · « **Reply #23 on:** 23 Jul 2009, 04:32 pm »

Quote from: deutscherhififan on 22 Jun 2009, 03:53 am

There is definitely some very strong competition established in the headphone amp market. If you look at 'headamp specialists' like Woo Audio you know that the bar has been raised VERY high. (Disclaimer: I own one and love it).

There are definitely some nice boutique headphone amps out there. Woo Audio is on my short list as well.

Feature-wise, I wish for a headphone amp that has a DAC & USB input so I can listen to FLAC files while working on my computer without disturbing others. The Musical Fidelity XCan V8p has the right feature set, just not the quality of sound I desire (nor close to what I think Dan could design).

I also agree that switchable impedence matching is desirable, since I have used dynamic & electrostats, Grados, AKG's, Sennheisers all, and most pair up better in some systems than others.

I don't care whether it has tubes or not. Most of my gear does, but that would not stop me from considering a sand-based amp.

For my use, I would not prefer a headphone amp built into the pre, but if my future 36.5 preamp had one, I'd use it.

Finally, the physical form factor is not highly important to me, but I would prefer a compact unit rather than another full size box for my rack.

Hope this helps!

DF

modwright · « **Reply #24 on:** 25 Jul 2009, 06:47 pm »

Thank you again for this information.

I agree that a headphone amp with built-in DAC with USB or similar connection would be KEY and a home-run product for many reasons.

I am looking at ways to integrated different features into our existing products as well as designing a unit such as this.

We are working on an amp design at the moment that is pure SS and will be available later this year. I had not considered making it headphone compatible, but this is an interesting idea.

Tubes are also not out of the question.

Thanks,

Dan

Pincher · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 09:54 pm »

Standalone tube amp, with THREE inputs (or at least two) and a line out. I run my Modwright phono stage direct to my head amp, then down to my preamp.

Please try to keep the cost under one million.

The phono stage cost enough!

Thanks.

bummrush · « **Reply #26 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 10:12 pm »

A Modwright 40 watt int. amp,now that's potential all over it.Especially in these times.Thats a type of product to me anyway that i think more then you know would appreciate.

Pincher · « **Reply #27 on:** 17 Nov 2009, 10:55 pm »

External power supply too, cosmetics to match the phono stage, power switch and light. Please, three inputs, I listen 95% to my music via headphones so for head people inputs are a plus. The Graham Slee head amp has two inputs, but three would be best. You could put one of your nice switches from other MWI products to select the source, they have a nice old school feel.

Thanks,

-Dan

modwright · « **Reply #28 on:** 28 Nov 2009, 01:54 am »

Thanks guys, I have this and a couple of other ideas at the drawing board stage, while other products are in the final design stage and others are entering production.

I won't build anything that I am not proud to put the MWI name on. You can be sure however that once we do, it will be GREAT!

Thanks,

Dan

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #29 on:** 20 Jan 2010, 06:56 pm »

Some great suggestions throughout this thread. As you know, Dan, I've been immersed in using headphones during my recovery from foot surgery and have been enjoying the heck out it! I've shared some of these thoughts with you privately, but just wanted to revitalize this thread with my own contribution. This would definitely be a great direction to go in terms of product development and I will look forward to what you come up with as it will no doubt be a force to be contended with among, what has already been noted as some stiff competition.

I'd add a few suggestions that haven't been made yet, which may seem a bit eclectic to head-amp users: Include both a 1/8 and 1/4 jack on the front so no adapters are necessary. I have heard from at least two individuals who have some loss of hearing in one ear - they've been hard pressed to find a headphone amp with a balance control (or dual volume - which I personally hate dealing with). Definitely a design with versatility to work with a variety of cans. I've recently heard from a headophile acquaintance who has longtime experience in those realms, that his favorite synergy of late has been tapping the innovative Headman He-5 orthodynamic headphones straight off the speaker taps of his FirstWatt F1 - this is from someone who otherwise has a plethora of cans and amps to choose from and would alternately favor HD800's and T1's via a Moth amp with 45 tubes (which is some very serious competition). The He-5 design requires some significant current/headroom (pun not intended) to sound their best...I guess similar to electrostats that do best with a dedicated amp. In the world of exotic designs the He-5 is pretty reasonably priced compared to the otherwise state of the art cans that command almost three times the price. Again, an eclectic direction, but something to be aware of. As you know, I've been loving my Woo WA6SE with Grado cans, but I have no doubt when you put your efforts to this you will be coming up with a heavyweight contender. An integrated, high-end DAC would be great. It seems like all the products that are combining DAC and Headphone amp are not bringing the headphone amp up to the level of what is available as a standalone amp. If you could do that you'd have something really special. A natural combination would be a headamp that doubles as a great preamp. With both of those combinations I'd say the key is to not compromise each of the intended functions. OK, I guess that's some very random thoughts that scatter all over the map. Dedicated competition that have already been mentioned include Woo, Eddie Current (Zana Deux), Headamp, and a handful of other small manufacturers. Not mentioned yet, or I just missed it; among the best who've brought serious attention to headphones to their conventional high-end products are EAR, Cary, and Yamamoto, and perhaps a few others. I agree, with the economy turning the way it is, this is a good base to cover, and you have an solid foundation to build from. It is also the portal through which many music lovers are introduced to the pleasures of high-end, which sometimes becomes a springboard to the more serious recreational audio-drugs that we all know and love.

modwright · « **Reply #30 on:** 24 Jan 2010, 01:00 am »

Good suggestions and thanks Marco! Flexibility is definitely a key theme for our new products. Integration is also key. I would like to offer a preamp/headphone amp with built in DAC. It would even be great to have this also be an integrated amp capable of driving average speakers.

This is all a tall order and we will likely offer both integrated and separate solutions in our lineup, but integration is definitely one of the key future trends.

I want to do a headphone amp that uses tubes, first of all. I need to research design requirements a bit further, but I don't feel that transformer coupling is a bad thing. OTL design have their pluses too, but I am NOT of the camp that feels that transformers are an ugly thing. In fact, I feel that transformer coupling is preferable to capacitive coupling, if one or the other is a choice.

I agree that balance control is good to have, as well as flexibility of inputs, at least in a dedicated headphone amp. I see both small and large stereo jacks as well as XLR for balanced cans being a very good thing.

We have a lot going on right now, but my interest in headphone amps has certainly peaked lately after hearing a customer's Woo headphone amp. Pretty cool stuff!

More on this as things evolve.

Thanks,

Dan

rpf · « **Reply #31 on:** 24 Jan 2010, 02:25 am »

Hi Dan,

Glad to read things have been going well.

I've been listening to my Senn 650s again lately, on a borrowed amp. So I've been thinking about getting a headphone amp for my bedroom. As mentioned, one with a built-in USB DAC would be optimal (but please no up-sampling: it's too fatiguing - oversampling is okay, as is NOS). Two jacks would be nice.

For me, cross feed is a must. Amps without it give me a headache.

Rob

CometCKO · « **Reply #32 on:** 26 Jan 2010, 02:52 am »

Quote from: modwright on 24 Jan 2010, 01:00 am

Good suggestions and thanks Marco! Flexibility is definitely a key theme for our new products. Integration is also key. I would like to offer a preamp/headphone amp with built in DAC. It would even be great to have this also be an integrated amp capable of driving average speakers.

This is all a tall order and we will likely offer both integrated and separate solutions in our lineup, but integration is definitely one of the key future trends.

I want to do a headphone amp that uses tubes, first of all. I need to research design requirements a bit further, but I don't feel that transformer coupling is a bad thing. OTL design have their pluses too, but I am NOT of the camp that feels that transformers are an ugly thing. In fact, I feel that transformer coupling is preferable to capacitive coupling, if one or the other is a choice.

I agree that balance control is good to have, as well as flexibility of inputs, at least in a dedicated headphone amp. I see both small and large stereo jacks as well as XLR for balanced cans being a very good thing.

We have a lot going on right now, but my interest in headphone amps has certainly peaked lately after hearing a customer's Woo headphone amp. Pretty cool stuff!

More on this as things evolve.

Thanks,

Dan

Hey Dan, another design you might have a look at is the Mapletree Audio Designs (MAD!) headphone amp. I heard one last weekend that was apparently a special edition, it used EL84 tubes, and sounded really spectacularly good with a pair of Sennheiser 800 phones. No DAC though and a very retro approach in general. But the sound was killer!

modwright · « **Reply #33 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 08:46 am »

Thanks guys! I had really not considered a small low-power amp before, but perhaps this is a good idea. Obviously an integrated with many features.

I am seriously investigating the headphone possibilities right now and will share my thoughts as I decide on a final direction.

Sincerely,

Dan W.

modwright · « **Reply #34 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 09:00 am »

What are people's thoughts about Crossfeed as it applies to headphone amps?

Thanks,

Dan

Marco Prozzo · « **Reply #35 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 09:37 am »

Quote from: modwright on 27 Jan 2010, 09:00 am

What are people's thoughts about Crossfeed as it applies to headphone amps?

Thanks,

Dan

It's definitely an option I would use, Dan. Listening to something like Sgt. Pepper or DSOM, where there are extreme's in directional cues, or rapid shifts thereof...well, just try listening to Sgt. Pepper in stereo over headphones. Have some Advil handy. The crossfiltering that Meier uses works very well for material like that. I like it as a switchable option as it's not necessary for all recordings...at least for me.

Jeff Ward · « **Reply #36 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 02:56 pm »

I was curious enough about crossfeed enough to track down a used standalone crossfeed from Meier. I used it quite a bit in the beginning on older stereo recordings and found it quite useful. If it were a feature on an amp, particularly a tube amp, it would be of interest to me. Most amps that offer crossfeed are SS. However, having it as a separate box I seldom hook it up much anymore-- I simply avoid listening to problematic material through headphones. Being able to completely defeat the crossfeed circuits would be an absolute must.

In my experience, headphone time is "precious" and selecting the right material to really enjoy it is more important than equipment matching. Having said that, though, I own a CI SS amp that I prefer with my Sennheiser phones (for rock), and a Chinese (transformer) tube amp that I love with my grados for most material with more delicacy.

Crossfeed would be nice, but not a make or break feature.

santacore · « **Reply #37 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 04:49 pm »

Quote from: modwright on 27 Jan 2010, 09:00 am

What are people's thoughts about Crossfeed as it applies to headphone amps?

Thanks,

Dan

I think it's a nice option, but not essential. I've had it on previous amps, and used it occasionally. That said, none of the amps I've owned in the last 1-2 years have it, and I don't miss it at all.

Jon L · « **Reply #38 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 05:29 pm »

Quote from: santacore on 27 Jan 2010, 04:49 pm

I think it's a nice option, but not essential. I've had it on previous amps, and used it occasionally. That said, none of the amps I've owned in the last 1-2 years have it, and I don't miss it at all.

Every time I've tried crossfeed, I always ended up going back and preferring no crossfeed. If included, it needs a switch to bypass it and not worth extra cost to pricing IMO.

For all us computer guys, there are various plug-in's available that gives you crossfeed from your playback software, e.g. Foobar..

CometCKO · « **Reply #39 on:** 27 Jan 2010, 11:08 pm »

Quote from: modwright on 27 Jan 2010, 09:00 am

What are people's thoughts about Crossfeed as it applies to headphone amps?

Thanks,

Dan

I used to have it on a Headroom amp. It was nice for a while, but I stopped using it. After a while of not using it, I realized I didn't miss it either. So I consider it non-critical. OTOH, some form of balance or channel leveling would really be helpful, for folks like me who have different hearing sensitivity in one ear than the other.

HTH