Your quick opinion on this neat little amp

Bill Baker · « **on:** 20 Dec 2003, 03:14 am »

Hello All,
If you take a look to your left, you will see my Avatar is of a customized Jolida 301. This is a 30 wpc integrated hybrid amplifier that retails for $350 in stock form.
I have have a few inquiries to produce a few more of these pieces and was wondering what the Circle group thought about the idea.
I wanted to include a few modest upgrades, nothing extreamly special but enough to enhance some of it's hidden potential. Here is what I had in mind:
*Obviosly, redo the tube board to bring the tubes out through the top of the units as shown in my avatar.
*Upgrade coupling caps to Auricaps
*Replace diodes with HEXFREDS
*Upgrade volume pot
*Replace all internal wiring.
* Upgraded 12AX7 input tubes
Please note that the new 301 amps now have a Silver aluminum face and no longer have the black face available (okay, I have a few black pieces left over).

I am not trying to turn this affordable little amp into an expensive unit trying to compete with the big boys (I have the RAM Signature series for that) but rather bring back a neat little amp that was originally a "one-off" piece cutom built for a customer. I obviously won't get rich with these types of ventures but like most everyone here, I enjoy what I do and want to offer people something different from time to time and have had several inquiries to bring this little custom modified piece back.

The reason for asking is so I know about how many would be interested in the piece and how many I should build.I was thinking of offering this piece for about $500 with all the upgrades. Sound reasonable???

As always, I enjoy and appreciate feedback from all the guys and gals here at the Circle. Even if your not interested, your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Holidays from the Response Audio Family.
Bill, Leann (my wife), Dalton & Hunter (my 5 year old twins), Erica (17 year old daughter) and Kyle (the middle child at 11 years old)

We all wish you the very best throughout the holiday season.

Beezer · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 02:57 pm »

I didn't realize that Jolida retails for $350 stock. What a deal! Your $150 price for the mods also seems extremely reasonable. Perhaps we could do some comparisons in January...

Beez

rosconey · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 03:07 pm »

i still want to hear his tube cd players

Carlman · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 03:22 pm »

This is a bit of a tangent and I'm sorry but...
Why is it obvious to " redo the tube board to bring the tubes out through the top ...... " ?

I see tubes sticking up through the top of a lot of products but, never knew why. I see exposed tubes and think that I have to be very careful around them so, I usually am. I guess growing up watching my Dad fix tubes in an old stereo created that tension... but, in any case, it looks unsafe to me. And so to me, it's obvious you'd want to encase them somehow so as not to be touched or accidentally broken somehow.

Is there a sonic benefit?

BTW, I think that's a very fair deal for the amp.... just don't understand why you'd want the tubes hanging out.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 03:43 pm »

CARLMAN - I don't take it as a tanget. That is a very good point and I'm sure many people feel the same. The stock 301 does have the tubes within the unit where they can not be seen and are safe as can be seen in the PIC below. There are a lot of people that like to have tubes exposed in their gear and this is the reasoning for bringing them out the top. I have done quite a few upgrades on these with leaving the tubes where they are.
As far as sonic benefit from having the tubes exposed - None at all.

Beezer - Yes, it is only $350 and has always been an underrated product. For a small, second or bedroom/dorm system, it is a nice sounding little amp. In fact, I have quite a few customer that have this little guy mated with speakers costing 5 times more than the amp itself. Being such a nice little piece to start with is why I choose it (along with the other Hybrids) as a base for our RAM Signature models.

rosconey - your more than welcome to stop by and listen to the RAM tube player anytime.

nature boy · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 06:14 pm »

Bill,

I am putting together a start-up system for a friend and spent some time listening to integrated amplifiers under $1k. I was generally unimpressed with the offerings, but did not get to listen to the NAD C320BEE. I believe this unit retails for $399.

That said, I think at the price point your upgraded Jolida sounds like a winner. I think it would pair well with Usher loudspeakers.

You might also consider a system package with the Jolida, an inexpensive CD player and bookshelf speakers. A lot of my non-audiophile friends are willing to stretch their budget to $1K or $1.2K to get something that sounds better than the drek available at most large box electronics retailers.

My only caveat is that digital amps are starting to come of age IMHO. Having listened to the Sharp SG-111 I just purchased for my son for X-mas, I believe that relatively inexpensive digital amps may come of age shortly.

Me, I'm a sucker for tubes so I say go for it.

NB

mca · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 06:45 pm »

Do you have a larger pic of the modified Jolida unit? From what I can tell, it looks much nicer than the stock unit, but it's hard to tell from the little Avatar pic.

Hantra · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 06:53 pm »

Quote

As far as sonic benefit from having the tubes exposed - None at all.

One could never accuse Bill of being dishonest. I like that. . .

Bill Baker · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 06:53 pm »

Hi NB,
Thanks for thepositive comments. I too feel that affordable "higher end" integrates are a highly desired product these days as they save on rom and budget. I think the 301 is an exceptonal valued product but too many people judge it by it's physical size. More people have gone with the JD1701 (50 watt version in a full size chassis) I think only because they feel more comfortable with a full size component. But then again, at only $500, the 1701 is also a very good value, IMHO.

With the Ushers, the 301 actually does very well. I even have this amp running a pair of CP-7388 speakers at the moment. You won't rattle the foundation with 30 watts but as always, choosing your system is a matter of personal preferences and expectations.

Digital amps--- Can't comment as I have not yet had the time to sit down and evalute one. Sounds interesting enough, maybe I should. It would take quite a product to pull me away from tubes though.

I would like to take this time to say that although it may appear that I am biased towards the Jolida gear, I assure you I am very open in opinions. I realize there are many very good valued tube products out there and would never say one is any better than another. It's just that I am very dedicated to the JOlida line and know them, inside and out, very well. I am not the type of dealer that thinks just because I don't carry a particular product that it's not up to my standards. I just can't carry everything. (wish I could)

Bill Baker · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 07:08 pm »

Hello MCA, Below are some larger PICs.

The internal picture was taken after only the risistors were replaced on the tube board with Dale/Vishays for the custom built unit. Obviously, it does not show the Auricaps, wiring, diodes and such as I had not yet installed these pieces. I am thinking of going with real wood face plate and tube plates as an extra option. The real wood face is very popular with the Jolida and RAM 301 amps.

Sorry for the quality of the pictures but these were taken with an older camera.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 07:14 pm »

Below is a PIC of a 301 with a very well aged Cherry face plate. Again, soory about the Picture quality. They really do look much better than it appears in the picture.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 07:22 pm »

Okay then,
I want to thank everybody for all their positive and honest comments. I have decided to go ahead and produce a few of these pieces.

I have also decided to make up a few leaving the tubes in their original location for those who feel more comfortable not having exposed tubes. They will still have all the other upgrades installed. Maybe I will come up with a few more "goodies" for this amp while trying to still keep the price around the $500 range. Going beyond that would take away from it's "value" status.

Here's to everyone having a happy, healthy holiday season. For all you parents out there, give the little ones an extra special hug this year. After all, they are the most special and valuable custom product any of us can create!!! Whether they have tubes or not.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 08:20 pm »

Natureboy, if someone is thinking about a $1k system I think the Jolida 1301 is absolutely the best amp you can get. In the store I bought it at here in Philly it killed a more expensive NAD integrated. I had the 1501 also, and I think the 30w 1301 has a special quality to the sound that it's more powerful big brother is missing. To give you idea of how much I like it, I haven't had it in use for about 9 months, but there's no way I plan on selling it.

Bill, what would the charges be to make the mods on existing units?

viggen · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 08:50 pm »

Hi Bill,

In your opinion, if the Ram 301 is sonically a "10" and a stock 301 is a "1", where does the $500 modded 301 lie?

Bill Baker · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 09:27 pm »

Quote

Bill, what would the charges be to make the mods on existing units?

Without repositioning the tube board, $95. Tubes through the top $150. The upgrades are really not to difficult but do require gutting the amp in the beginning. One thing that will not be included into the $500 upgrade unit is the Dale/Vishay resistors but this would only add about $25 to the price.

Quote

In your opinion, if the Ram 301 is sonically a "10" and a stock 301 is a "1", where does the $500 modded 301 lie?

In all honesty, I would not put the stock Jolida at "1" in comparison with the RAM but for easier reference with the upgraded unit, we can do it this way.
IF the stock unit was a 1 and the RAM a 10, I would would say the upgraded unit is at 4-5.
It is really hard to compare either the stock or upgraded 301 to the RAM as the RAM units are a completely different circuitry with much different goals in mind. The upgraded 301 was thought up to bring out more of the hidden potential within the amp's circuitry. In all honesty, the 301 is an "upgrade" whereas the RAM is a true "modification".

nature boy · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 10:08 pm »

Max,

Thanks for the NAD comparison, I had a feeling the Jolida would better it by a wide margin.

Bill,

I will talk to my budding audiophile friends and try to get you an order for a few of the RAM modified 301's. I'll also try to get some feedback on whether they prefer the exposed tubes or not.

Regards,

NB

JLM · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 10:24 pm »

I should think that $95-150 in upgrades would be a small price to pay, but I've always liked small and simple. This with a Music Hall CD25 and a reasonably efficient set of speakers could be a killer sub $2,000 system.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Dec 2003, 10:53 pm »

Hi JML,
I was a bit woried that people would actually think the price was too high without realizing the time invested in doing such upgrades.

Good call on the CD25 as I am putting together a few packages based on the CD25 player. The nice thing about this is that for those who do buy the 301/CD25 package and want to further their experience down the road can send them both in for RAM modifications if they feel the urger to experience the RAM products. I still run a RAM 301 and RAM player in one of my systems hooked up to a pair of Usher X-708 speakers.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Dec 2003, 12:44 am »

Quote

Bill,

I will talk to my budding audiophile friends and try to get you an order for a few of the RAM modified 301's. I'll also try to get some feedback on whether they prefer the exposed tubes or not.

Regards,

Thanks NB, That is very much appreciated. As far as feedback goes, that would be great. Feedback is what I value most of all as it obviously helps me find the right direction to travel. That is why I started this thread. Everyone here at the Circle has always been great at honest opinions without brutal flames.

viggen · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Dec 2003, 03:24 am »

Hi Bill,

I do not think the price is too high considering the labor and parts you are putting into it. However, if I am in the market for an amp right now and if my choices are only the $500 and the $1000 301 models, I will definitely choose the $1000 model with consideration of the previous post you responded to me in.

If I am to invest in good speakers and a cd player, I definitely am willing to pay for the RAM to bring out the system's full potential. Choosing a $1000 amp over a $500 one won't break my bank.

However, I will get the stock or $500 if I am under budget constraint situation such as building an office, computer or second system or building a system for a friend. I like the user friendly size.

On a side note, the modded ones look a lot better with the exposed tubes as well. That is a definite plus. If I am to get a stock 301, and I do like it a lot, it will be worth $100 to me to get the exposed tube look alone.