Name the "Beast/HT4"

n2siast · « **Reply #40 on:** 11 May 2009, 12:49 am »

Salk Reference Series I(Roman numeral for one).

Jeff B. · « **Reply #41 on:** 11 May 2009, 12:53 am »

Maybe a little bit audacious, and I probably shouldn't be tossing any out there anyway, but if this is a "statement" speaker how about the Salk Epiphany?

....or if we need to step that down a notch, then maybe the SRS1 for Salk Reference Standard 1 ?

Jeff

jsalk · « **Reply #42 on:** 11 May 2009, 12:55 am »

Quote from: DMurphy on 10 May 2009, 06:21 pm

Great write up, Jim. Just one minor correction. The frequency response plots aren't quite labeled right. The on-axis is the bottom one, and if you place that one on top, they'll follow in the correct order. As for a name, based on sound and not looks, the most apt would probably be The Orchestra Hall.

Corrected. Thanks.

- Jim

jsalk · « **Reply #43 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:01 am »

Quote from: jbtrio on 10 May 2009, 06:51 pm

Hi Jim,

Can you tell us what Caps are being used in the crossovers?

Posted the question last week, maybe you missed it.
Curious if you're using something different then Sonicaps and Solens.

Regards,

Joe

Joe -

The standard cap will be Solen. But we expect that customers ordering these speakers may want higher end caps and we will, of course, be happy to upgrade to whatever caps they would like. Caps can be very expensive, especially in a 3-way where large values are required. Some people don't think caps make that great a difference. So we don't want to force them to pay extra for caps they would not otherwise purchase. But others feel caps make a huge difference. So if someone wants Mundorf, for example, we will be happy to build crossovers with them. So the answer to your question is we would use whatever caps you would like.

- Jim

JoshK · « **Reply #44 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:01 am »

Quote from: Jeff B. on 11 May 2009, 12:53 am

Maybe a little bit audacious, and I probably shouldn't be tossing any out there anyway, but if this is a "statement" speaker how about the Salk Epiphany?

....or if we need to step that down a notch, then maybe the SRS1 for Salk Reference Standard 1 ?

Jeff

SSR1 has a better ring. Salk Sound Reference 1. Think Blackbird. Not seen via radar....dissapearing act...has some charm.

Whoops, that was the SR71. SSR1 looks like SSRI as in prozac.

How about Blackbird?

jtwrace · « **Reply #45 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:02 am »

ForeSite Series

Kris · « **Reply #46 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:07 am »

Sorry SSR is taken. (I have the SSR from Selah Audio). Maybe SRS for Salk Reference Standard. Just like my IRS (Infinity Reference Standard).

jsalk · « **Reply #47 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:10 am »

Quote from: DMurphy on 10 May 2009, 09:22 pm

There's a really obvious and totally goofy name you're all missing. But I'll let Jim mention it, and then bury it.

Just so no one has to wonder what this is about, when we first selected the drivers, I thought "FAL" - "RAAL" - how about "FAL d' RAAL". Dennis got a kick out of it. Then we agreed we would never use it or discuss it publicly. So don't let the cat out of the bag whatever you do.

- Jim

JoshK · « **Reply #48 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:19 am »

As in this?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fal%20de%20ral

I was going to purpose something more juvenile. FAl Raal Tc sound = FART. Somehow it doesn't reflect the elegance and class of your beautiful speakers.

BradJudy · « **Reply #49 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:23 am »

The tweeter enclosure instantly reminded me of a Roman soldier's helmet crest. At first the name "Centurion" occurred to me, but then I found that centurions wore their crests perpendicular to their line of site and it was actually the standard legionaries who wore them in this fashion. The helmets were also called "Galea", which is a nice name, but very close to the name of one of Selah's models. Then, there's the praetorians, who were the elite guard who protected the emperor (or the root word Praetor, who was the commander of the army in battle).

If the intent is for this to be the top-end Salk model for the forseeable future, then Praetor might be a good option for a name. I also like Centurion.

Salk Praetor
Salk Centurion
Salk Legion

Sine · « **Reply #50 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:32 am »

Salk Eminence

jsalk · « **Reply #51 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:34 am »

I guess its time to cover the most often asked question...how much will these cost?

Well, we decided that the first pair we built would be constructed out of solid bamboo. Not having worked with it in this fashion, I didn't expect it to be much different than any other material. I was wrong.

If you put an 80-grit belt on a belt sander, turn it on and lean on it hard, you will barely be able to create any dust. We burned out one router and one belt sander on this pair alone. I think that would be par for the course. It took Sam 3 1/2 days to sand the woofer cabinets alone.

So it became increasingly apparent that bamboo cabinets, while incredibly solid and inert, would be expensive. I guess that is par for the course since everything about this design is expensive.

While at AKFest, Constantine Soo from Dagogo asked me the cost. I told him I didn't know. He told me he needed a price for his write-up. So I did my best to figure it out on the spot. Yikes!

The next morning on my way back to the show, I got to thinking about comments I had heard the day before. "Too bad I can't afford those," and, "those are too large for my room" were often heard. I expected the first comment. But I had not anticipated the second and it made me think.

The 12" woofer section was developed in order to deliver bass extension to 20Hz. But, other than perhaps pipes organs and Japanese Tyko drums, there are really any instruments that play that low. In reality, you really only need to go just below 30Hz to cover almost all traditional musical instruments.

I turns out that the bottom of the top section is 12" wide. The woofer section of our Veracity HT3 design is also 12" wide. So, if we developed a woofer section based on 10" drivers, they would still handle almost all traditional instruments, but they would be smaller (about the same dimensions as the top and about the same size as the current HT3's), they would be easier to build because no taper would be required at the top of the woofer cabinet, and they would be less costly. We could also do versions in MDF as well as bamboo.

In earlier discussions on this circle, there seemed to be a consensus that it would be nice if this speaker would come in at under $10K. Earlier, I thought that was simply an impossibility. But with four variations, it seems that it may indeed be possible. So here are the four variations and associated costs.

If we build the speaker using a 12" woofer section and construct with solid bamboo, the cost would be $17,999 plus upgrades, if any.

If we build the speaker using a 12" woofer section and construct with MDF, the cost would be $13,999, plus the cost of veneer.

About $1500 of the cost differential is the cost of bamboo, the rest is increased labor and tools.

If we build the speaker using a 10" woofer section and construct with solid bamboo, the cost would be $11,999.

If we build the speaker using a 10" woofer section and construct with MDF, the cost would be $9999, plus the cost of veneer.

These are very substantial cabinets. The speaker weigh in at 155 pounds each.

I don't know how many of these speakers we will eventually sell. One of my associates thought we were crazy to even take on this project in these economic times. Regardless, I am very glad we did. I spent the last couple of days listening extensively and I am extremely happy with my new toys.

- Jim

zybar · « **Reply #52 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:38 am »

Jim,

Slightly off topic, but will you bring the Beast/HT4's out to RMAF?

I really would love to hear them, but just couldn't make it out to AK fest.

As for the prices...I know you try to do the best possible job on prices for your customers.

I wish you many, many sales.

George

zybar · « **Reply #53 on:** 11 May 2009, 01:41 am »

Jim,

How do the performance characteristics change if you move from Bamboo to MDF and/or from the 12" woofer to the 10" woofer?

George

JoshK · « **Reply #54 on:** 11 May 2009, 02:01 am »

Somehow I missed the details about AKfest until the week before or I could have made it. My wife's family is in the greater Detroit area so it is easy to make such an excuse.

Your costs seem reasonable actually, even if expensive. CNC cabinet making is steep and they look like they took quite a lot of machining.

I am going to try to pass a large speaker in my not too large living room. Visual impact has a huge part of WAF. Your speakers are short but stout.

Lastly, I will leave you with word of Donald Trump, when asked why he only caters to the rich he replied, "because the rich always have money." When asked why in this economic times you are bringing out such an expensive speaker, a brutal truth to remember is that the middle and lower class hurt more than the wealthy. Its easier to sell to the wealthy than the middle class.

JoshK · « **Reply #55 on:** 11 May 2009, 02:04 am »

Quote from: zybar on 11 May 2009, 01:41 am

Jim,

How do the performance characteristics change if you move from Bamboo to MDF and/or from the 12" woofer to the 10" woofer?

George

I'd guess he doesn't know yet given that this is the only pair he has likely made to date.

zybar · « **Reply #56 on:** 11 May 2009, 02:09 am »

Quote from: JoshK on 11 May 2009, 02:04 am

Quote from: zybar on 11 May 2009, 01:41 am
Jim,

How do the performance characteristics change if you move from Bamboo to MDF and/or from the 12" woofer to the 10" woofer?

George

I'd guess he doesn't know yet given that this is the only pair he has likely made to date.

Josh,

I was asking more from a theory standpoint - I know that Jim hasn't built any finished speakers in MDF or with the 10" woofer. I do believe that his test mules were in MDF though.

I doubt Jim would be offering those options if he didn't have a good idea on what results they would produce.

George

Kokishin · « **Reply #57 on:** 11 May 2009, 02:46 am »

Jim,

If it's not too much effort, can you mock up or photoshop a pic of the "HT4" with the HT3 woofer section?

Thanks

Quote from: jsalk on 11 May 2009, 01:34 am

I guess its time to cover the most often asked question...how much will these cost?

Well, we decided that the first pair we built would be constructed out of solid bamboo. Not having worked with it in this fashion, I didn't expect it to be much different than any other material. I was wrong.

If you put an 80-grit belt on a belt sander, turn it on and lean on it hard, you will barely be able to create any dust. We burned out one router and one belt sander on this pair alone. I think that would be par for the course. It took Sam 3 1/2 days to sand the woofer cabinets alone.

So it became increasingly apparent that bamboo cabinets, while incredibly solid and inert, would be expensive. I guess that is par for the course since everything about this design is expensive.

While at AKFest, Constantine Soo from Dagogo asked me the cost. I told him I didn't know. He told me he needed a price for his write-up. So I did my best to figure it out on the spot. Yikes!

The next morning on my way back to the show, I got to thinking about comments I had heard the day before. "Too bad I can't afford those," and, "those are too large for my room" were often heard. I expected the first comment. But I had not anticipated the second and it made me think.

The 12" woofer section was developed in order to deliver bass extension to 20Hz. But, other than perhaps pipes organs and Japanese Tyko drums, there are really any instruments that play that low. In reality, you really only need to go just below 30Hz to cover almost all traditional musical instruments.

I turns out that the bottom of the top section is 12" wide. The woofer section of our Veracity HT3 design is also 12" wide. So, if we developed a woofer section based on 10" drivers, they would still handle almost all traditional instruments, but they would be smaller (about the same dimensions as the top and about the same size as the current HT3's), they would be easier to build because no taper would be required at the top of the woofer cabinet, and they would be less costly. We could also do versions in MDF as well as bamboo.

In earlier discussions on this circle, there seemed to be a consensus that it would be nice if this speaker would come in at under $10K. Earlier, I thought that was simply an impossibility. But with four variations, it seems that it may indeed be possible. So here are the four variations and associated costs.

If we build the speaker using a 12" woofer section and construct with solid bamboo, the cost would be $17,999 plus upgrades, if any.

If we build the speaker using a 12" woofer section and construct with MDF, the cost would be $13,999, plus the cost of veneer.

About $1500 of the cost differential is the cost of bamboo, the rest is increased labor and tools.

If we build the speaker using a 10" woofer section and construct with solid bamboo, the cost would be $11,999.

If we build the speaker using a 10" woofer section and construct with MDF, the cost would be $9999, plus the cost of veneer.

These are very substantial cabinets. The speaker weigh in at 155 pounds each.

I don't know how many of these speakers we will eventually sell. One of my associates thought we were crazy to even take on this project in these economic times. Regardless, I am very glad we did. I spent the last couple of days listening extensively and I am extremely happy with my new toys.

- Jim

DMurphy · « **Reply #58 on:** 11 May 2009, 02:54 am »

Hi My prototypes are made out of mdf, and they're rock solid. So I wouldn't expect any sonic difference from bamboo--just aesthetic. Jim hasn't picked a 10" driver yet, so it's too early to talk about overall performance differences. But in terms of accuracy above 28 Hz, clarity, and soundstaging, I doubt that the 10" woofer will end up making any difference.

av_passion · « **Reply #59 on:** 11 May 2009, 05:27 am »

Jim, in a couple of other posts you said...

... When Dennis and I started talking about this project two years ago, we decided that design decisions would be based solely on performance, not cost...

...nothing about these speakers was easy. But you don't enhance your skills without pushing the envelope at times. And in this case, the design stretched our skills to the limit...

My observation is that these speakers arose out of a specific design philosophy wherein you sought to surpass anything you had done before and where cost was not a constraint. May I suggest that you need both a name for the speaker and a name for the line of speakers where the objective of each new endeavor is a product that transcends everything and anything that you have done before.

"Transcend" or "Transcendent" seems like fitting words to describe the series since "transcend" means "to surpass, the attainment of a level so high that comparison is hardly possible" and "transcendent" means either "beyond and outside the ordinary range of human experience or understanding" or "exceeding or surpassing usual limits especially in excellence"