Sub for Onix Ref 1's

Carlman · « **on:** 15 Dec 2003, 11:53 pm »

I have a couple of questions for sub use with the Onix Ref 1's:
Do people who own these speakers use a sub?
If so, what do you use?

I've never had success with subs. I had a Monitor Audio 10" at one time that was OK but, was kind of soft and didn't really blend with my Minipods. That was a long time ago and the only experience I've had with them personally.

My room is 11x12 plus a 2' deep bay window. The system is on a rack between the speakers in the bay window area... which is an 11' span. I have a chair in the sweet spot and a rug over hardwood floors. I live in a house so, no neighbor issues.

I like fast, articulate, punchy bass. I like good impact and slam that are convincing and lively. If it gets a kick drum right, I'm happy. Does this mean I want a front firing sub?

I know my amp was capable of producing convincing bass through my older speakers, Revel F30's but, over-filled the room just a bit. So, if I could cut off the bottom of one of those Revels and tack on an amp, I'd be happy.

Any sub suggestions would be appreciated. My budget max is $600 but, I'd prefer to keep it under or around 500 shipped. I was recommended this one: http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=EZSUB1410200 to be paired with Diluceo's. But, didn't know if they'd match the Onix.

The CSS site doesn't inspire confidence so, any suggestions or other input is appreciated.

jackman · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 12:17 am »

For the money, the sub you reference looks pretty darn good. Some might not like the piano black finish, but I think it looks pretty cool. The one reservation is the cabinet. I'd call them and make sure it has sufficient bracing. The driver is very solid and very impressive, however I don't know much about the amp. I suspect it's something like the Apex Sr. which is a decent plate amp more than capable of driving the driver nicely. I think it would be a nice match for the Ref 1's, which are very good speakers.

Quote

The CSS site doesn't inspire confidence so, any suggestions or other input is appreciated.

??? What's this all about? The site isn't hard to navigate and CSS uses high quality drivers from Adire and other high quality manufacturers. I don't know what doesn't inspire confidence, however they seem to offer some good values.

Another sub that I'd think about is the Rava by Adire Audio. It's a very nice sub. Tight, fast bass and very musical. Not the last word in boom, but it should do well in your room. For the money, it's almost impossible to beat.

If you can glue together a cabinet, I have a suggestion. Check out:
Driver: SCC 300 from Soniccraft.com - $150
Amplifier: Apex Sr. from Apexjr.com - on sale $135
Cabinet: 3 Cubic foot flat kit from Partsexpress.com - $129 shipped
Stuffing, glue and screws - Partsexpress $20?
Veneer - ? depends on how fancy you want to get, but let's say $50

Total: approximately $550-600

That would be my suggestion.

Good luck and congratulations on your purchase.

Jack

vpolineni · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 12:35 am »

you should look into this:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=6628

jackman · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 12:42 am »

Great suggestion, however he has a lower budget. I'd love to hear that Tumult/1000 wpc amp combo. It looks killer.

Jack

vpolineni · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 12:51 am »

i thought a passive tumult sub would be in his budget.. assuming he has an amp lying around he can use.

Carlman · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 01:06 am »

I agree that the weapon of mass destruction looks incredible. A bit out of my price range and I think would be overkill for the room and application.

As to CSS's site, it's a bit vague in the product descriptions and there aren't many photos.... that are in focus, anyway. Just kind of rough around the edges in a web design kind of way. In contrast, the DIY cable site is very professional and represents their products well.

Which would you prefer to send $500?

BikeWNC · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 01:25 am »

Just remember, that which ever sub you choose needs to have a crossover that will allow you to come in under the response of your speakers in your room. Not knowing how low the Ref 1s will play in your room is a stumbling block to buying a sub, IMO, unless the sub has the ability to crossover pretty low.

Andy

bubba966 · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 02:17 am »

Carl, I heard that sub you listed w/the 10" Adire XBL^2 driver at VSAC with the A/V-3's (not with the Diluceo's though

) and it's a killer little sub.

If all you wanna drop is $500-$600 that's where I'd drop it.

Danny cranked up some Metallica with that sub and it rocked!

Not only did it have incredible output (that was good, not sloppy) but it was built quite well. If I wasn't already pretty happy with my subs I'd be looking at the Adire XBL^2 drivers in prebuilt applications.

And for your room, that 10" CSS should be all good...

theranman · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 03:02 am »

I'll bet that Creative Sound sub is a superb sub, but am I missing something here?..why hasn't anybody suggested the UFW-10 for that size room??

Ran

Chris · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 03:43 am »

if you don't need it immediately, i believe UFW10's are supposed to be available in matching birds eye maple sometime in the near future.

Arctos · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 03:43 am »

As info, I have purchased some items from CSS (about 8 months ago) and have found them to be legitimate. I spoke to the owner, who is very knowledgeable regarding DIY audio, and purchased a pair of Tangband drivers and some other items that were shipped quickly and without issue.

Just thought you would like to know,

RDS

hectic1 · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 04:41 am »

I have a UFW-10 paired with my Onix Ref 1's and it sound great IMO. The UFW-10 has a one band parametric EQ built in along with the 500 watts digital amp. The sealed 10 gives you all of the aspects of bass that you have described. It is tight, fast, powerfull, and most importantly, articulate with it's bass.

They will be coming out with a matching BEM UFW-10 here in the near future as well.

Carlman · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 05:04 am »

I think I will be waiting on the BEM UFW-10 to be available. It looks like the winner both in sonic characteristics and in looks... which is a bonus because I assumed I'd be getting a black melamine box. Thanks for your comments, Hectic... that's music to my ears.

I'm still in the learning process on monitor/sub combos from this decade. So, when I get this one, I can say what I do or don't like and can move forward to perfect the sound I want. If it does everything like I hope, I will be super-mega-ultra-happy.

From what I read on this thread in the av123 forum, it's getting shipped from somewhere on the 15th of either Jan or Dec and will take 3 weeks after that... If anyone knows more and can chime in, great...

However, I'm happy my 'sub hunt' is over.

Thanks,
Carl

theranman · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 05:13 am »

Bob may have scored the two points, but geez, don't I at least get credit for the assist?!

Ran

Sa-dono · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 05:21 am »

I believe the BEM UFW-10 is still going to be a one time custom finish, so it will be a limited run/offer. I'm not sure if the price will be any different either, although it appears they want to keep it the same price (since they have not mentioned anything as of yet). Checking couldn't hurt, as well as putting one on hold. I would also agree that this sub should certainly meet your wants in regards to bass. Best of luck "finishing up" your setup!

Hantra · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 12:56 pm »

C:

I agree with Andy here. I don't think you should buy a sub. I think you should find your main speakers first, and get them placed right. Once you settle on a pair of speakers, then decide whether you need a sub, and what sub to buy. . .

B

Carlman · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 02:34 pm »

Ran, definitely, you deserve some thanks... sorry I missed you on that one

...

Hantra and Andy make good points about making sure it's necessary and/or finding the right sub for my room.

You know how when you have it in your head what you're going to do and it just sits there as a constant? Like, I planned on getting 2 monitors and a sub to replace the Revel's. Now, I have sold the Revels so, I'm buying 2 monitors and a sub. So, it didn't occur to me to stop and think about trying it without a sub first and THEN adding a sub... which is clear I'm going to have to do anyway if my heart is set on the UFW-10 BEM.(which it is at the moment

)

However, what if I don't like these speakers? I've never heard them... and the only speaker I've ever bought without auditioning is a Monitor Audio sub... which wasn't bad but, wasn't a favorite. I didn't hear what the reviewers claimed to have heard but, I don't know how to setup a sub, either. This is new to me. Which brings up my counterpoint to not-buying the sub sooner... I'd like to have the opportunity to experiment and learn how to get a sub right.

I think the AV123 situation couldn't be better. If I like the monitors, I'll get completely accustomed to it and the sound, have a chance to read and research sub placement techniques before the sub is even available. I listen to my system every day for at least an hour or 2 so, I'll learn a lot shortly.

Thanks again EVERYONE

for your help.

-Carl

jackman · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 02:44 pm »

Carl,
I totally forgot about that sub. You will be happy with Mark and Co. over at AV123. He's a first class guy who offers some unbelievable values and knows how to take care of customers. That sub is very flexible and musical and appears (on paper) to be a good match for the Reference 1's. I heard it at Hectic-Bob's house and was impressed by how powerful it sounded and by how well it was constructed. Rumor has it that Mark makes cabinets for some high $$$ companies in the industry. One look at the finish on that sub confirmed it for me.

The only negative was that Hectic-Bob insisted on playing early George Michael/Wham music at very loud volume levels and dancing around the room in a Speedo. Although the sub sounded great, I thought the whole dancing and musical selection was a bit strange...just kidding!

Bob, I hope you are doing well. Let's get together soon, I'm looking forward to hearing your system (minus the Wham music of course).

Cheers,

Jack

Carlman · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 02:52 pm »

Jack,
Yeah I can imagine the 'mood' wasn't what I'd want either..
Was it something like this:

In any case, the beat goes on... I'll give Mark a call and chat about the availability and such....

Thanks,
Carl

audiojerry · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Dec 2003, 03:36 pm »

Where are the censor's when we need them?