[mmakshak]

Now were getting somewhere!  I appreciate all the answers, and those plantar bass traps are clever and have a clearly measured affect.  I would suggest some more variety in this area, as you know how fickle some people can be.  Four plantars in 4 corners might be a little too much for them.  I have to throw one more monkey wrench into this discussion.  My Cathedral Sound Panels eliminated a bass boom in my problem corner just as well as a Lenrd bass trap did.  I know that the Panels were marketed and graphed to show a noticeable effect in the very low bass, and Ethan points out this is not possible.  Could the Panels have an effect at let's say 400hz(the speakers were DCM Time Windows with 6-inch drivers, I believe.)?  I know you must hate having to answer the same questions over and over Ethan, and that it seems like we don't get it(Imagine how school teachers feel.), but are you saying that one can use the size of an object and calculate what frequencies it will have an affect on based on that size?  Having listened to the ART system and Tibetan bells, I'm not so sure that all ringing(can we use a more benign word?) is bad.  Maybe some of it can be used to open up a space that exists on the real stage?  Thanks Housteau and Ethan for pointing out how the measurements(objective) and subjective might interact.  One more question, where does Paul Klipsch's assertion about objects(hard?) placed in the living room for acoustics fit into this?

[Ethan Winer]

those plantar bass traps are clever and have a clearly measured affect.  I would suggest some more variety in this area, as you know how fickle some people can be.

In fact, Planter Bass Traps are probably our least-selling product. Most people, by the time they finally come to us, understand that real acoustic problems require real solutions. So they've already sorted out the appearance issues in advance. The increase in the number of dedicated rooms also helps the acceptance of real treatment.

My Cathedral Sound Panels eliminated a bass boom in my problem corner just as well as a Lenrd bass trap did.

I bet if you actually measured the response and ringing (boom) you would find that is not the case. Unless you had only one or two LENRDs in which case you had too few of them to do much. So they did work "equally well" because neither did much. I've measured LENRDs too, and while they're not highly effective, they definitely work down to the mid- and high-bass range if you have enough of them. Versus the Cathedral panels that do nothing at any frequency as far as I can tell.

Could the Panels have an effect at let's say 400hz

Doubtful. The data I showed earlier stops at 200 Hz, so I just now loaded those same Before and After files to compare them above 200 Hz. Very little difference, mostly down in the noise.

are you saying that one can use the size of an object and calculate what frequencies it will have an affect on based on that size?

Yes, exactly! This is physics 101. You know - long thick organ pipes are used for low tones, and short skinny pipes for higher tones.

I'm not so sure that all ringing(can we use a more benign word?) is bad.

If something rings like a bell when excited by sound, then ringing is the right word. I can't see how that could ever be a good thing.

where does Paul Klipsch's assertion about objects(hard?) placed in the living room for acoustics fit into this?

No idea as I've never seen that quote. But it's common knowledge that to reduce ambience in a room you use "soft" things, and to increase it you instead use "hard" things.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Ethan, you are hereby permitted to sling mud.    (just kidding)

I know you're kidding, and my usual policy is to not comment unfavorably on a competitor's product. But the Cathedral Panels and Synergistic ART bowls do not compete with RealTraps, or any other legitimate vendor of room treatment. They're more like replacement power cords, iso platforms, and other such tweaks.

I'll also mention that late last year in the Stereophile forum, Synergistic's Ted Denney promised to post hard data and graphs proving that his ART bowls actually do something. He said he was going to do formal testing at the RMAF show in January, and post the results as soon as he returned from the show. He never posted that in the Stereophile forum, and I see no such data on his web site.

--Ethan

[mmakshak]

  I can see it now in audiophile rooms across America.  "Honey, sorry about last night, but if you look in the corner in the planter, those are your favorite flowers".  Good idea! You would be suprised how hard it is to get some things past your partner, especially if they take an interest in decorating.  Planters might also be a way to introduce acoustics to someone who believes they can't get anything past their partner.  Once they see how effective acoustical treatments might be, they might push harder into this area.  We did notice a spreading out of the sound(high frequencies?), especially with 2 Cathedral Sound Panels in upper corners.

[mmakshak]

  I guess I should mention that one LENRD in my problem corner did the trick for what I call bass boom.  I believe that I preferred 2 Cathedral Sound Panels in that upper corner.  The LENRD was a little darker sounding, I believe.  I also didn't care for 2 LENRDs stacked in that corner(It's been awhile.  I still have the Cathedral Sound Panels there, but now have 2 of the smallest ASC tube traps stacked in that corner also.).  I think the Cathedral Sound Panels act a little like corner triangles that others have marketed.