[Carlman]

I am deciding between 3 pairs of speakers at the moment.  My budget is whatever I sell my current speakers for.  The target amount is 2,k USD.

I have a smallish room, it's 11x12 plus a bay window on one wall which makes for another 2 feet.  
So, it looks like a rectangle with a trapezoid at the end.  My speakers will be placed on either side of the bay window unless there's a compelling reason to put them on the other end.  However, I felt sitting in the bay window area would provide unwanted reflections.

I have applied 8th Nerve-esque room treatments in the corners and hung a rug on the wall opposite the windows.  The windows have shades but, will eventually have heavy drapes.  

The speaker choices to be auditioned soon are:
GR Research Diluceo's.
Piega C2's
Avalon Symbols

I will most likely add a sub to most of these combo's either initially or down the road.

I have always enjoyed a lot of slam and dynamics with loads of detail.  However, I've always had a lot of room.  Now, in a small room, the dynamics are a little fatiguing so, I'm going for a little more subtle approach.  I still want impact and some slam but, not as much as the Revel's provide.

The associated equipment is a Dodd preamp and an AKSA 100 Nirvana'd amp.  

Thanks for any advice,
Carl

[JackD]

Carlman

I would suggest you try to listen to a pair of Green Mountain Audio Europas, which list for only $880 a pair and have 43 lb. synthetic marble enclosures.  I my house and main system, they have put a $2600 pair of Reynaud Trentes in the bedroom system.  They give you the slam you are looking for without the Stereophile inclined "detail."

[Carlman]

I may not have explained my taste well...., I still want a lot of detail... just not so forward.  I enjoy hearing little nuances and being involved in the music.  However, I'm not an all-emotional listener.  I can be quite analytical and enjoy hearing recording techniques reproduced with precision.  I just don't want it to get harsh.

Thanks.

[eico1]

Tannoys are never fatiguing and work quite well for critical monitoring during recording.

steve

[bubba966]

Carl,

I actually like the GR A/V-3's better than the Diluceos when I heard them at VSAC. Not that the Diluceo's were bad mind you, they were very good. But I just preferred the A/V-3's myself.

So you might want to add those to your list...

[Hantra]

Well dude, you know which ones I like.  If you're adding a sub anyway, the Piegas can't be beaten by those other competitors.  You know they do the instruments right.  

I'd like to hear how you like the Avalons.  

I'm not that familiar with GR Research, and am not sure how they would compare to Avalon, or Piega, who have both been around a long long time. . .

B

[Ravi]

The GR Research Diluceos are amazing!  They are clear, but at the same time are not etched or "hi-fi" sounding.  They are also very uncolored.  I don't own them, but listened to them extensively, so this is true unbiased praise.

[doug s.]

you need to hear the proac tablette reference 8-signatures.  even in a medium-sized, or big room w/o subs, they hold up well.  in a big room w/subs, ya cannot believe how good it can be, w/such tiny monitors.   in a small room, they should be amazing.  and they are not at *all* forward.  all the detail is there.  and, big soundstage.

http://www.proac-loudspeakers.com/tabref8sig.php

now, re: the diluceos, well, i have a demo pair i'm expecting any day now, we'll see how they stack up!  

doug s.

[Mad DOg]

carlman,

you might want to add the Onix Ref 1s to your list of speakers to consider...you can check with JohnCasler, F-100, HiFiTommy and HarleyMYK on their opinions about this speaker since they just had an opportunity to hear mine today at HarleyMYK's place...

[Carlman]

I have to admit, the Avalons are very enticing.  I'll bet they have a similar overall presence as the Piega's.  Also, I have a chance at getting a very good deal on them.  So, I could potentially get the Avalons and compare them to others.  Then, sell the Avalons and get whatever bests them if I find it.  

I think the Piega limited's get the instruments right.  It'll be interesting to see how right the the non-limited's get it right.  Hopefully I can work out an audition on them this coming week.

The Avalon's are a 'let's do it now' type of deal and it's killing me but, I've put it off an extra day or 2 to 'think on it'...  I heard some Avalons a year ago and it stuck with me like glue.  They are an incredible sound.  Lots of air and a live sound.  What you put in is what you get out of them.

The Piega's may be a bit more synergistic but, I think anything I put with my gear will sound pretty good.  Between the amp and digital rig I have, the details are there to be reproduced.... the speaker need only to react to them.  So, I think the 'softer' speakers I'm looking at will still have some punch and detail.  we'll see...

Well, I've had a lot of rum tonight so, better sign off for tonight... I had a good time listening to my Panasonic portable integrated CD player/preamp... boy... what fun.  Can't wait to get the Dodd in there... sheesh.
 

[Hantra]

I heard some Avalons a year ago and it stuck with me like glue.

I know that feeling.  I will never forget the Wilson Sophias and every tune I heard on them.  Same with the Bens last weekend.  

My opinion is if there is a speaker that sticks THAT HARD, you ought to go for it.  I probably never will get certain speakers out of my mind until I get them, and try them.

BTW, there is a review on the Avalon Symbol in the November HiFi News.

L8r,

B

[JLM]

For a smallish room I'd also listen to the VMPS 626.  Small footprint, 6 inch woofer (rated to 37 Hz), and with most of the audible spectrum covered by the wonderful neo/mid/ribbon they should match up very well in your situation.

[Carlman]

I heard some Avalons a year ago and it stuck with me like glue.

I know that feeling.  I will never forget the Wilson Sophias and every tune I heard on them.  Same with the Bens last weekend.  

My opinion is if there is a speaker that sticks THAT HARD, you ought to go for it.  I probably never will get certain speakers out of my mind until I get them, and try them.

BTW, there is a review on the Avalon Symbol in the November HiFi News.

L8r,

B

After more reading, the Avalon 'Symbols' are nothing like what I heard.  They will not do.  I read a comment on Audigon's forum that summarized other findings... the words "thin and bright" were used.  So, those particular ones are a non-option.  I really want depth and a nice, full midrange and midbass.

The 626's look similar to the Diluceo's and are a similar price.  The Onix Ref 1's are probably nice so, I'll read into those.  I kind of get the impression that both of these are more geared to HT applications.  The sub that would go with the 626 I find very interesting.. somewhat tuneable and deep.  

Has anyone heard the 626 and accompanying sub together for 2-channel?

[Carlman]

Carl,

I actually like the GR A/V-3's better than the Diluceos when I heard them at VSAC. Not that the Diluceo's were bad mind you, they were very good. But I just preferred the A/V-3's myself.

So you might want to add those to your list...

What did you like more about the AV-3's?  These were my first choice when I was looking at their site.

[BrunoB]

I may not have explained my taste well...., I still want a lot of detail... just not so forward.  I enjoy hearing little nuances and being involved in the music.  However, I'm not an all-emotional listener.  I can be quite analytical and enjoy hearing recording techniques reproduced with precision.  I just don't want it to get harsh.

Thanks.

Room treatment can help you to decrease the harshness while increasing presence and details.

Bruno

[doug s.]

...I really want depth and a nice, full midrange and midbass. ...

ya really should give the proac tablette reference 8 signatures a listen...

doug s.

[Carlman]

...I really want depth and a nice, full midrange and midbass. ...

ya really should give the proac tablette reference 8 signatures a listen...

doug s.

How much are they?  The last ProAc's I listened to were something similar in size to the Response D15 but, I don't remember the model and it was about a year ago.  The were not my cup o' tea...  Kind of flat and lifeless.  The Revel's blew them away in every possible way but, the room was 17 x 24 feet.  I don't remember the drivers having that little copper cone on the dust cap.... so, I may go take a listen to them... that'll be easy enough next week sometime.... at least there's a local dealer for these near me.

Thanks,
Carl

[doug s.]

How much are they?  The last ProAc's I listened to were something similar in size to the Response D15 but, I don't remember the model and it was about a year ago.  The were not my cup o' tea...  Kind of flat and lifeless.  The Revel's blew them away in every possible way but, the room was 17 x 24 feet.  I don't remember the drivers having that little copper cone on the dust cap.... so, I may go take a listen to them... that'll be easy enough next week sometime.... at least there's a local dealer for these near me.

Thanks,
Carl

if there's a dealer, go check 'em out.  flat & lifeless is not how i'd describe them.  (perhaps ya heard the studio series?  i'm not familiar w/these, but i know they use less costly drivers & cabinet construction.)  

the new tweeter in the proac line, which is used in the ref-8 signature model, extends to 30khz & is really airy, w/o being at all overly bright & harsh.  i am also wery familiar w/the response 1sc, which is also a great monitor, imo, & i slightly prefer the ref 8-sig, cuz of its airier treble.  re: the revels, i have not heard 'em, but i have heard they are wery bright, so on a quick comparo between 'em & the proacs, the proacs mite initially seem dull.  but, imo, they are not dull.  especially the models w/the new tweets.

i have been enjoying mine in my big (26x38x8.5) room for several months, now, crossed over to my vmps subs.  i recently had 'em running full-range in my room w/a manley stingray, set at the 25wpc triode mode, & i was amazed that they dint totally fall apart.  they were actually better than the zu druid monitors run that way, in my room.  i'm presently auditioning the zu's - a great speaker, but they really need subs, imo, at least in a big room.   (a full report on these cool 99db/1w speakers will be upcoming.)  i also heard the ref-8-sigs in a ~14x22x10 room w/the same stingray, & they were fantastic...  (as were the 1sc's, but i preferred the airier presentation of the 8-sigs.)

the ref-8-sig lists for $1700...  i lucked out & got a mint (not even broken-in?) pair from an agon seller in greece for $1k, shipped.  there's a guy on a-gon that has been adwertizing a pair for a *long* time, from hong-kong for $1.5k shipped, which is a bit high, imo...  mebbe he'd come down now, but i inquired about 'em before i got mine, & never got a reply...

doug s.

[doug s.]

...there's a guy on a-gon that has been adwertizing a pair for a *long* time, from hong-kong for $1.5k shipped, which is a bit high, imo... mebbe he'd come down now, but i inquired about 'em before i got mine, & never got a reply... ...

hmmm, i checked the agon site again, i guess i was mistaken - the seller is from morocco, & he has lowered his price from $1500 firm to $1399obo...

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrmoni&1075375141

doug s.

[rkapadia@ROOP]

After more reading, the Avalon 'Symbols' are nothing like what I heard.  They will not do.  I read a comment on Audigon's forum that summarized other findings... the words "thin and bright" were used.  So, those particular ones are a non-option.  I really want depth and a nice, full midrange and midbass.

Carlman, I haven't heard a bad speaker made by Avalon, specifically "thin and bright".  Unless you have first hand experience with the components and system paired with the Avalon, I'd take that rating with a grain of salt.  I've also found the "reading about each component and drawing system conclusions" approach to often be faulty to determing the quality of music.  I don't think the words of a single stranger should keep you from listening to a pair of speakers on your short list.

Regards,