First VMPS Experience, the Novel

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Redbone

First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« on: 12 Dec 2003, 09:20 pm »
This is a very long and very personal account of my first experience with VMPS speakers and Hi-Fi in general.  It is not intended as an expert review.  It is very personal and, I assure you, completely unsolicited.  Read this carefully when you have the time.  Think and enjoy.

After an early snowstorm and a few days delay, the Estes truck pulls up in front of my house.  I live on Catoctin Mountain with a spectacular view of the Appalachians to the west.  The truck, a ten wheel tractor-trailer, is on the street, with no intention of trying to back down the steep driveway.  The driver is walking towards me eyeing my old Ford pickup as he walks by it.  He could be Charlie Daniels for the way he looks.  I sign the receipt.  “Think ya kin pull the truck up behind ma rig?” he asks.  No problem I say.  

The speakers are boxed and banded to a pallet with several heavy layers of cardboard on top.  They are big.  They are heavy.  I back up the old Ford.  We cut the bands and start to slide one into the bed of my pickup.  “Man, what are these things ?” the driver asks.  Stereo speakers I say.  “You gotta be shittin me !  You gonna light up the whole mountain.”  Yes, I probably could with the right amp.  They won’t both fit side by side on the wide dimension, so we rotate one 90 degrees.  One carton has a whole punched through the cardboard but the Styrofoam underneath is intact.  I take custody of my new speakers.

 Over the ground soft from rain and melting snow I drive the loaded pickup through my front yard and down to the basement door.  With great care and effort I slide each speaker off the pickup and through the door, pushing them over the smooth concrete.  The speakers are heavy, well over two hundred pounds by my judgment trying to move them.  I slide them to their approximate location and rotate them so that they are driver side up, lying lengthwise on the floor.  They are well marked, RM40 FST Auracap, Piano Black.  I cut off the outer box of thick corrugated cardboard.  They are completely surrounded by thick, high density Styrofoam and have corner guards all the way around.  After removing this material I stand them straight up, still wrapped in two layers of plastic bagging.  These guys were lovingly packed like children being sent on a long cold walk to school.  Good, they are completely undamaged, not a nick.

The grills must be removed before the plastic can be pulled off of the top.  It is like undressing a woman, carefully pulling the shear plastic up over the top of each speaker.  It is like a woman, stark and naked and beautiful but not without blemishes.  There are glue spills along a couple of seams.  I walk around the speaker.  God, what a beast.

Now I am really nervous, like a first date.  I have read the instructions several times.  The terminals are there, just like the pictures, but no switch, just an anodized slot headed bolt.  WTF, they forgot the switch !  The two pots are there, where the hell is the Mortite ?  I read the instructions on the back of the speakers and hook the cables to the top terminals as described.  I search all over for the Mortite, man they forgot that too.  So much for custom tuned speakers.  

Well, what should we listen to on our first date ?  I put on Sultans of Swing.  They sound like shit !  Crisp and tiny and metallic like nothing I’ve ever heard before, yikes.  Okay, it’s obvious that just the treble is hooked up.  I reconnect to the bottom terminals.  The speakers sound much better but I have to turn the volume way up to get sound.  Holy shit the amp is clipping all over the place, turn the volume down !   GD, my amp won’t drive these beasts.  I play clips from several CDs, the speakers sound like shit, what’s going on ?  I thought about I post I read where a guy said the only thing these speakers were good for is parking bumpers in the garage.  Maybe he is right.  I try adjusting the pots, there seems to be no effect.  After a few minutes I realize that only the bass speakers are playing.  What is going on with the switch ?  I decide to make a pair of jumpers to connect the terminals in back and give Julian a call.

Julian answers on the second ring in his usual mild mannered reporter voice.  “Julian, this is Pete.”  Uh, who ?  “Pete, the guy in Frederick who bought RM40s.  Listen, what’s up with the bi-amp switch, these speakers sound like shit.”  Bewildered, Julian says he’ll check it out and get back to me.  Meanwhile I cut four segments of 12 gauge braided wire for jumpers and rewire the speakers.  Julian calls back and informs me that the bi-amp switch has been discontinued to improve Sonics.  He helps me locate the Mortite stuck dead center in the passive woofer under the speaker.  It’s not a big gob like I expected, just a spit of clay stuck directly to the center of the speaker cone, yikes.  

Rewired I try again.  Better.  The first thing I notice is the sound seems to come from all over the place, really hard to locate.  I have been very careful to get the polarity right and triple checked all of my wiring.  This is not rocket science for crying out loud !  I am not happy, but I have a dinner to go to.  One thing I noticed is that moving the speakers even a quarter of inch seemed to have a huge effect on the sound.  What is going on ?


Back from dinner I clean up the enormous stack of boxes and packing.  I rearrange the room and place some plants along the walls.  It is a big room with a pool table and plants and stuff.  The speakers are 15’ apart and about that far to my listening area.  I set the pots to about the 1 o’clock position and scrape a fingernail full of Mortite from the passive woofer.  I build a big fire in the fireplace.  Music.  

This is a good time to provide the reader with a little insight about the author.  I do not watch or own a television.  I see ABC News like Monty Python, it is a charade, a parody, a joke.  I am stubborn, like a dog.  Not any dog, I’m talking Chesapeake Bay Retriever stubborn, Redbone Coonhound stubborn, I mean stubborn.  I do not like to sit down.  I listen to music standing up, for hours.  I fly aerobatics, I’ve been bungee jumping, I like new things.  I take risks.  Years ago I realized that a lot of popular music is popular because it sounds good on cheap car radios.  I am really hoping that these speakers will open the door to a new world that I have only imagined.  It is so rare to have a truly new experience as you get older.  It is one of the things I hate most about aging.  The other is that I will probably never again sleep with a seventeen year old girl.  God, getting old sucks.

My first real reaction to these speakers is that they’re affecting my hearing.  I’ve spent years listening to music in the basement with a fire burning but tonight the crackling is disturbing.  A plane way overhead seems excruciatingly loud.  What is going on ?  It takes a big bear hug to move a speaker but each slight movement creates a huge change in sound.  By the firelight the speakers are more than wood and metal, there is a presence to them, they have life.  They are like two motionless people standing in the corners of my basement.  Each CD has a different sound and balance.  I am wondering how in hell you can tune these things when there is so much variation just from the CDs.  Don’t you need a tuning fork or some baseline to go by ?  One speaker is always sounding louder than the other and I am beginning to wonder if I have a bad driver or something.  

I walk slowly towards the louder left speaker and crouch so that my ear is at the same level as the FST.  Holy shit, the sound focuses and changes, all the frequencies melt to one and I am surrounded by deep rich sound !  The other speaker cannot be heard.  I sit there almost hypnotized until my knee gets so stiff that it hurts.  Standing, I walk towards the other speaker and crouch, same thing.  Inspiration and I understand !  This is it, that so very rare and cherished new experience I crave, I am flying !

All the fuss about fans.  Peripheral noise is not an issue with an average stereo.  But at very Hi-Fidelity low-fi sounds corrupt and pollute the music and thus the obsession with fans.  Lo-Fi pollutes and obscures and masks all other noise but true Hi-Fi is completely transparent and any external sound can shine in and be heard.  It’s annoying.  You want a pure sound environment for Hi-Fi and you become very sensitive to intruding non Hi-Fi sounds.  

The reason tiny movements of the speakers have such dramatic effects is because of the sound curtain !  I think it was John who described it like a flashlight beam.  Yes, a beam, it is a beam of sound, expanding to perhaps 3 feet wide and 3 feet tall at a distance of 20 feet.  Outside of that beam the sounds separate and lose coherence.  A small rotation of the speaker is a large movement at 20 feet, think lever arm.  Moving the speakers forward or backwards has a much smaller effect, but I always introduce a little bit of rotation in doing that.  Of course, that’s why such small movements are resulting in huge sound changes.  Inside the beam it is magic.  Damn, how long did it take to design a speaker like that ?

I turn on the lights and carefully aim the speakers by eye.  I place a chair at the focal point, turn off the lights and put on Bruce Hornsby.  Completely freakin magic, sound like headphones only with depth and frequency across the board.  Indescribable, delicious, rich sound, with lots of highs and lows.  Wonderful flowing steel guitar, I am hypnotized by the ring of any metal instrument.  It is like taking a drug, wow.

There is still an awful lot of work and tuning to do.  I need new amps.  These speakers really should be bi-amped.  I am still a little concerned with some of the high frequency sound reproduction but I think that a good tube amp on the treble will be just right.  Also, as I discovered by running the speakers with only the bass section, the mid-woofer produces a lot of sound and a lot of mid-frequency sound.  It is also very sensitive to distortion.  Thus I think that you need a very clean amp for the bass as well as the treble for these speakers to shine.  It is just that the bass amp needs to produce a lot of power so a tube amp is probably not right for the bass.

I hate sitting down !  That may be the most difficult issue to resolve.  I am thinking of pouring some concrete stands that aim the speakers upwards to focus the beams about 3 feet higher but I don’t know what the total effect of doing something like that will be.  We’ll see.  I’ve still got a long ways to go.

Pete

John Casler

First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #1 on: 12 Dec 2003, 09:38 pm »
Great read!! :mrgreen:

Brian Cheney

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rm40
« Reply #2 on: 12 Dec 2003, 10:13 pm »
Glue overspray can be removed by rubbing with a cloth infused with WD40.

You should have received a package of setup instructions in the mail.  If not go to our website www.vmpsaudio.com, click on Designers Corner, then the How to Tips.

SWG255

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Re: First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #3 on: 12 Dec 2003, 10:15 pm »
Thanks for this narrative. I too just got my RM40s, (on Dec. 2nd) and because I auditioned them at Dynamic Sound Audio in D.C. I was a little better prepared for the vaguaries of the RM40s vertical and horizontal radiation patterns. Still, at first I wasn't sure that I'd made a great investment in audio bliss either. My RM40s have the FST and the TRT caps, and they don't sound as good when i'm standing as when I'm sitting. They don't sound fabulous well outside the sweet spot  either. In the sweet spot they are amazing, every recording, and I mean every recording I play yields new information to my ears! Often it's stuff in the recording I've never heard before, and sometimes it's stuff I've heard before, but now it sounds so clear and different than I remember it. These speakers seem to make the work the brain has to do to understand the audio on recordings much easier. This works for lyrics, percussion, bass lines, spatial queues, brass, piano, violins, electric guitar...you name it.

I think you'll find that the tweeter settles down after awhile, in my case after about 4 days. I also thought the speakers didn't project sound into the room as well as the demo pair I auditioned, until the fourth evening I was listening to them. Then they seemed to come more alive, right in the middle of a B.B. King guitar solo!

I haven't really started to tune my RM40s yet, I've been waiting for the larger pedestals Brian sent me. They're here now, and they'll be installed tonight. This will hopefully make the speakers more stable on my carpet so i can begin the painstaking labor of positioning them. After they're in a pretty good spot, I'll start working on the mortite on the passive radiator.

I hope your adventure continues to be as rewarding as mine. Enjoy!


Quote from: Redbone
This is a very long and very personal account of my first experience with VMPS speakers and Hi-Fi in general.  It is not intended as an expert review.  It is very personal and, I assure you, completely unsolicited.  Read this carefully when you have the time.  Think and enjoy.

After an early snowstorm and a few days delay, the Estes truck pulls up in front of my house.  I live on Catoctin Mountain with a spectacular view of the Appalachians to the west.  The truck, a ten wheel tractor-trailer, is on the  ...

warnerwh

First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #4 on: 12 Dec 2003, 10:19 pm »
Enjoyed your article!  Thanks. You'll learn to adjust them properly and this takes everyone some time.  In the meantime enjoy the music. Congratulations

doug s.

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Re: First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #5 on: 13 Dec 2003, 12:07 am »
Quote from: Redbone
...I live on Catoctin Mountain with a spectacular view of the Appalachians to the west...


hey pete, does this look familiar?  it's the view off my back porch, from fry road... :wink:

any chance i mite catch an earful of those bebe's?  feel free to say no, respond via private message, etc...  i dint mean to put ya on the spot, but vmps ribbons have been on my short-list for some time.  mebbe they'd match up well w/my larger subs... :)

regards,

doug s.

Redbone

First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #6 on: 13 Dec 2003, 03:30 pm »
Doug, yes that does look familar.  The snow is gone now but here is a shot from my carport, took it a few minutes ago.




Well I woke up this morning and it is 55 degrees, inside.  A bit cool even for me.  Looks like the furnace is non-functional.  I'll be working on that shortly.  Doug, let me get through Christmas and break in the speakers and then if you want to come by after that you are more than welcome.  You'll have to watch out for the coonhound and that GT.  Send me an email and we'll work something out.

Pete

doug s.

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First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #7 on: 13 Dec 2003, 04:20 pm »
hi pete, cool - after x-mas works for me.  things *are* a bit nuts thia time of the year...  and as it is, i have yust received a pair of zu druid monitors for audition, & expect a pair of gr-research diluceos today or monday.  so many speakers, so little time!   :wink:  i gotta winnow the list of speakers down, man!   these, the vmps', the sp-tech & the german physiks' - *one* of them has to be "the one", eh?   :)  

and, if yure looking for tube amps, ya may be interested in having me lug over my mesa baron - i have a sneaky suspicion that this may work well w/the vmps.  it makes either 60wpc, 90wpc, 120wpc, or 150 wpc, depending on whether it's set to run full-triode, full pentode, or somewhere in-between.  and, its negative feedback can be set for either 0db, -2db, -4db, or -8db.  also, ya may be interested in playing w/my pink-noise generator/spectrum analyzer to see what changing the vmps' pots does...

thanks, & good luck w/that furnace...

doug s.

btw, my pic was taken *last* year, after that ~3' snowfall we had.

Enrico

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First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #8 on: 13 Dec 2003, 10:52 pm »
Quote from: doug s.
german physiks'


Hi

If you don't mind please post your impressions of the german physiks speaker when you can. This is one of the most expensive speaker lines ever (G.P. Tiebreak = $250,000) and most of us will probably never hear one.

doug s.

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First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #9 on: 13 Dec 2003, 11:00 pm »
Quote from: Enrico
Quote from: doug s.
german physiks'


Hi

If you don't mind please post your impressions of the german physiks speaker when you can. This is one of the most expensive speaker lines ever (G.P. Tiebreak = $250,000) and most of us will probably never hear one.


hmmm...  well, the model i've been considering - the now discontinued windspiel - retailed for ~$12k, but shows up on the used market every once in a great while for <$4k.  i've never heard one, as they're quite scarce - i would likely have to bite the bullet & buy a used pair & hope for the best...   :|   kinda scary, really.  but, i'm tempted, based upon the old ohm walsh speakers i've heard.  the g-p uses a highly developed iteration of that walsh driver...

doug s.

Redbone

Re: First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #10 on: 15 Dec 2003, 03:57 pm »
Quote from: SWG255
I think you'll find that the tweeter settles down after awhile, in my case after about 4 days. I also thought the speakers didn't project sound into the room as well as the demo pair I auditioned, until the fourth evening I was listening to them. Then they seemed to come more alive, right in the middle of a B.B. King guitar solo!


Sure that wasn't just the second Martini kickin in ?  Just kidding, the sound on my speakers seems to be mellowing and refining too.  But I've thought right from the start that it's going to be hard to differentiate between the speakers breaking in and my ears adjusting to the sound.  

Some recordings still sound a lot better than others, and some really shine. Most of the CDs sound good now though, and I am much more pleased with the overall sound.  The "sweet spot" seems to be a bit larger now also.  And you are absolutely right about hearing new sounds on every recording.  I went through that first with the new CD Palyer but it is even more pronounced with these speakers.  

There have been several instances where I have thought that a phone rang or a bell went off or some other noise occured upstairs, only to realize it is in the recording.  A few of the "new" sounds have actually startled me.  I have thought that the CD Player was making them up or something.  It's just amazing what a full dynamic range can reveal.

jdoyle

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First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #11 on: 15 Dec 2003, 05:42 pm »
Pete,  Nice dissertation...   Some of the concerns you noted would have been mine exactly.  I'm very excited about the new RM-30, it seems to fit my budget and space requirements.  Yet, I've never actually heard any VMPS speakers and am worried about how they will sound other than if you're not directly in that sweet spot.  :|

I guess the question to ask is...  Knowing what you know now, would you do it all over again?

John

byteme

First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #12 on: 15 Dec 2003, 06:33 pm »
Quote from: JDoyle
Pete,  Nice dissertation...   Some of the concerns you noted would have been mine exactly.  I'm very excited about the new RM-30, it seems to fit my budget and space requirements.  Yet, I've never actually heard any VMPS speakers and am worried about how they will sound other than if you're not directly in that sweet spot.  :|

I guess the question to ask is...  Knowing what you know now, would you do it all over again?

John
Excellent question.  I'm also deciding on a new pair of speakers - Odyssey Lorelei and Tyler Acoustics 7U's (with Seas rather than scan speak tweeter) are the front runners but the RM30's are VERY interesting.  I've also never heard a VMPS speaker and would be interested in dispersion, how they sound outside the sweet spot and how involving they are.

Redbone

First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #13 on: 15 Dec 2003, 10:56 pm »
Quote from: byteme
Excellent question.  I'm also deciding on a new pair of speakers - Odyssey Lorelei and Tyler Acoustics 7U's (with Seas rather than scan speak tweeter) are the front runners but the RM30's are VERY interesting.  I've also never heard a VMPS speaker and would be interested in dispersion, how they sound outside the sweet spot and how involving they are.


Well, I'm not sure that I am the best person to review these speakers as I have heard few if any speakers from other manufacturers that are in this class.  Also, I currently do not have an amp that is capable of powering the bass on these speakers.  But I can give you a very unbiased and personal opinion.

Would I do it again ?  Absolutely.  Would I recommend them for everybody ? No.  You need to decide exactly what you are looking for and how you are going to employ the speakers.

These would not be good speakers for a bar/lounge or that type of application.  There is a focal area where the speakers sound great.  Exactly how large and how adjustable that area is I do not know yet, but I suspect that it is relatively small.  Even though they are large, the speakers are not loud or overpowering.  Another customer noticed that when demoing the RM40 he found himself listening to them at a much higher volume than the other speakers that he was considering.  I would have to agree with this.  First the RM40 "sucks" up a lot of power.  Second they are very clear and transparent.  They seem very transparent in that they do not mask background noise.  

They do not sound bad outside of the sweet spot but you lose most of the high frequency sound.  If you want really good focused sound and imaging, these are the speakers.  If you want to "fill a room with music", they are not.  If you and two or three friends want to sit or stand in one spot to listen to music or watch HT, great speakers.  If you want to have a room full of people all listening to music, no.  Bottom line is the speakers have a focused dispersion pattern.  This provides for the best imaging I have ever heard outside of headphones but it also has the drawback of limiting the sweet spot.  Your call.

I do not know what the definition for "involving" is when applied to a home stereo.  I can guess.  These speakers are hypnotic when you get them set up right (or even close as in my case).  Fantastic imaging, transparent sound, broad frequency response and dynamic range.  I think that that is what you might call "involving".  The ribbons produce a mid to high frequency sound that is, in a word, extraordinary.  But is a different sound than cones, and it has a different dispersion pattern.  I like to listen to mostly rock which has a lot of steel and electric guitar.  These are the best speakers for that, IMO.

Again, I beleive it was John that put it best, there are tradeoffs.  Don't buy a Ferrari if you want to haul dirt.  Don't buy a pickup if you want to race on curving roads.  It depends on what you want.  You can get an SUV or Mini-van that will do both, but neither well.  I chose to shoot for the absolute best sound that I can get and am willing to put up with a more limited sweet spot to get it.

warnerwh

First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #14 on: 15 Dec 2003, 11:23 pm »
Curious to whether you've tried pulling a little putty from the passive radiators yet?  This will affect the midrange also btw, not just the bass.  The adjustment can change the sound of the speaker quite alot and some experimentation will be needed before it's easy for you.  You should try and see what happens. Be sure to save any putty you remove. Good Luck

Tyson

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First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #15 on: 16 Dec 2003, 04:02 am »
The funny thing is that you think they are the best choice for rock, and I think they are the best choice for classical music (especially piano).  And I have to say they are pretty damn good for jazz too.  Great speakers for all kinds of music, IMO.  But you are right, the "magic" happens in the sweet spot.

Redbone

First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #16 on: 16 Dec 2003, 01:49 pm »
They are the best choice for piano, it is a metal stringed instrument not that much different than a steel guitar.

Just tried pulling out a little more putty last night.  But I am going to wait until I get a new amp before I really try to tune them.  I did use some shims to tilt the speakers back about 5-10 degrees.  This resulted in much better sound dispersion but may have slightly reduced the bass.  Like I said, I've got a lot of work left to do, it will take awhile.

Q

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How about percussion?
« Reply #17 on: 16 Dec 2003, 02:27 pm »
If this speaker is good for piano and rock (stringed instruments), then how would you rate them for percussion?  This is the ONLY area I felt the RM 40 lacked.   And that is in the impact, leading edge midbass, and the smack of a drumhead.  That is THE only thing keeping me from writing a check for a RM40 pair.  SO, Im wondering if the RM30 with a slightly higher xover freq to the neo's, and different midbass drivers will fill the void.  I must also add that both RM40 pairs I auditioned had no tweeter or cap upgrades.

lkosova

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First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #18 on: 16 Dec 2003, 02:39 pm »
Q,

The Rm-40 with the larger sub will give you the impact you are looking for. Without it I agree with you.

I am an ex-drummer.

The trt upgrade really makes it shine and the cymbals are right on.

This was an important point with me and music. Most speakers do not get the cymbal correct or the snare impact. VMPS does!!!!

Larry

lkosova

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First VMPS Experience, the Novel
« Reply #19 on: 16 Dec 2003, 02:40 pm »
Q,

The Rm-40 with the larger sub will give you the impact you are looking for. Without it I agree with you.

I am an ex-drummer.

The trt upgrade really makes it shine and the cymbals are right on.

This was an important point with me and music. Most speakers do not get the cymbal correct or the snare impact. VMPS does!!!!

Larry