[Tyson]

Agreed.  Although, if we take the "warmth" of tube gear as "accurate to real life", then it is SS gear that is colored.

Or more specifically, tube gear is accurate to life, and SS gear is colored in a sterile and cold manner.

[Rob Babcock]

Agreed.  Although, if we take the "warmth" of tube gear as "accurate to real life", then it is SS gear that is colored.

Or more specifically, tube gear is accurate to life, and SS gear is colored in a sterile and cold manner.

I think the reality is that both are colored.  Just pick the colorations you prefer.

[acresm22]

Just curious...how many of you use a tube amp in your stereo music rig, but use a ss receiver or amp in your home theater setup? Explosions aside, I assume you would value the tube's natural and lifelike reproduction of, say, speaking human voices and soundtracks in movies over the sterility of an ss presentation. Or no? Does the brute force of ss trump the benefits of tubes in the movie house?

[Tyson]

I triamp, using tubes on highs and mids, and SS on lows.  HT and 2 channel are the same system.

[JerryM]

Just curious...how many of you use a tube amp in your stereo music rig, but use a ss receiver or amp in your home theater setup? Explosions aside, I assume you would value the tube's natural and lifelike reproduction of, say, speaking human voices and soundtracks in movies over the sterility of an ss presentation. Or no? Does the brute force of ss trump the benefits of tubes in the movie house?

The single coolest tube amps I have ever seen were from an old theatre sound system. I was pretty young, but I still remember the cool glow. And, of course, music from them on a two channel rig.  

It'd be fun to make a modern comparison, wouldn't it?

Have fun,
Jerry

[owenmd]

Thought I would add something as I haven't heard discussion in this area yet?

I read somewhere, cant remember where, that the reason "most" tubes sound generally more musical and natural than solid state is because SS gear has transistors or similar components that are basically high speed switching devices.  This incredibly rapid on/off activity effectively breaks up the music into lots of "bits" of information.  Obviously our ears cannot hear the segregation as its so fast, but it registers in the subconscious.  We don't know what it is as we can't put our finger on it.... but we prefer tubes as they don't operate using this principle and don't break up the musicality, or fluid procession of the music.

I know, I know, you could argue that digital sources have already broken up the signal, so whats the difference..... well maybe the cumulative effect of all SS components crosses the edge of enjoyability into chaos...?

Sound good to me...?

Mark

[bluesky]

Hi Everyone

Of course there will always be various camps amongst audiophiles with the ongoing discussion as to why tube amps remain so popular despite some measurements indicating that ss amps appear to have a much better run on, paper at least.

However, there is some science to this after all.  There has been research conducted by real live scientist types, who even wear white lab coats to indicate just how scientific they are!  It appears that the human ear canal can do some strange things to acoustic frequencies when listening to different types of amps.  What it boils down to is that even order distortions are perceived (or heard if you like) as pleasant whilst odd order distortions are percieved as unpleasant.  In fact, the ear canal itself makes distortions in the passage of sound along it's length which actually turns even order distortions up to 2% to 3% into something way more linear, and then the brain plays its parts in the processing of this information as well.  The human ear drum can also vibrate at a molecular level, almost by definition far more refined than any machine which at best has issues of self noise simply by virtue of electrons having to move along wires.  Just this morning I was reading a text book where even my notions of electrons were challenged by the writer now referring to this as "charge carriers" rather than electrons, which indicates that even electrons as we know and love them, may best be regarded as something that requires more thought and analysis as we discover more about them.  It is still a fact that no one has ever "seen" an electron, rather we can only see their effect as a (very) small lump of energy, at best.  Even then, only after it has had an effect rather than in "real time".  The best I can say is that the more I know of quantum physics (which is not a lot), the less I actually understand!

The brain's processing can be influenced by a range from issues as simple as us feeling good about the romantic glow of the glass bottles which in turn can make us, well me anyway, feel better about what we are hearing.  I guess this could be described as pyscho-acoustics.  Whilst some may pooh-pooh this notion of aesthetics I believe it is quite valid in the sheme of things.  Most people buy products based on everything from price, peer group pressure, or what is "in", and even, including how it sounds.  After all it is a well known fact that a red car always goes faster than a white one.

Music is art, and art is very much about music and beauty, a beautiful amp will always sound better than an ugly one.  Perhaps there is science that may validate our love affair with tube amps but I would also state that once love comes into the equation, then how good something sounds is very much about us being human beings and to quote Mick Maloney of Supratek, "How do you measure a smile?"

Bluesky

PS See one of Thorsten Loesch's websites for the details on the names and research notes of the scientists who undertook these studies.  I did read it, er, hum....somehwere, I just can't find the details of this to validate empirically what I have written, plus I'm too lazy to trawl the net to find it, I'm quite human in this regard too!  Just to try and show I am unbiased I love both Aksa solid state and some tube amps in equal measure. 

[Mr Content]

Hmmmmm tubes Vs SS. Like comparing apples and oranges, both play music, Some like SS, and would only ever have SS in their system. Some like Tubes, and would only have tubes in their system. Some change between SS and tubes, maybe because of what other components they use at the time. I am not sure why I like tubes, the Set I have now is just the best ever, and I just love the tone of it. I also like the sustain and decay that I get with tubes, it just seams to add micro detail to each note that makes the whole song sound so musical......I dunno I just like tubes

BTW congrates on your circle Jake 

Mr C aa

[Tyson]

Tubes are soft and beautiful like women, while SS is hard and precise like men.  Which would you rather spend your intimate moments with?

[rajacat]

Tubes are soft and beautiful like women, while SS is hard and precise like men.  Which would you rather spend your intimate moments with?

 

[Zero]

Shit, I have both tubes and SS in the house.......    Guess it's great to have the best of both worlds?         

[pardales]

Thought I would add something as I haven't heard discussion in this area yet?

I read somewhere, cant remember where, that the reason "most" tubes sound generally more musical and natural than solid state is because SS gear has transistors or similar components that are basically high speed switching devices.  This incredibly rapid on/off activity effectively breaks up the music into lots of "bits" of information.  Obviously our ears cannot hear the segregation as its so fast, but it registers in the subconscious.  We don't know what it is as we can't put our finger on it.... but we prefer tubes as they don't operate using this principle and don't break up the musicality, or fluid procession of the music.

I know, I know, you could argue that digital sources have already broken up the signal, so whats the difference..... well maybe the cumulative effect of all SS components crosses the edge of enjoyability into chaos...?

Sound good to me...?

Mark

Another interesting notion. 

[pardales]

Shit, I have both tubes and SS in the house.......    Guess it's great to have the best of both worlds?         

Didn't Hannah Montana express that same sentiment?   

I came to the conclusion some time ago that an audiophool needs at least two systems. Multiple systems gives one the latitude needed to express a range of audiophile desires and allows for more interesting experimentation.   

[lonewolfny42]

I came to the conclusion some time ago that an audiophool needs at least two systems. Multiple systems gives one the latitude needed to express a range of audiophile desires and allows for more interesting experimentation.   

I'll drink to that....

Variety is ....good !!! 

[woodsyi]

SS HT, Tube Bedroom and both SS & Tube for the main rig.

Got it covered on all angles.

[mcgsxr]

Interesting thread.

For me, it is more about Class A vs other methods.  The best music I have been exposed to, has always been driven by Class A amps.

Not all were tubes, but it is interesting to note that I have gravitated to using Class A tubes exclusively in my system for the past 3 years now...

[DTB300]

But we always come back to the "there's something magic" about the sound of tubes.

There is nothing "magic" about tubes and it seems only the tube people want to use this term as a qualifier to justify their preference.  Just an opinion here and not to be taken as an insult.  To me "magic" sounds like a marketing statement or ploy. 

If one likes the sound of Tubes and have listened to them over time, then their preferences and likes will be tilted toward that sound - same with SS.  It is not better, it is not the way, it is just what you like, not others.  I have great respect for people that KNOW what they LIKE and do not use one technology over the other basing their choice on what OTHERS think.

Each technology offers plus and minuses to the end user to like or not.  Each technology is different, not better, IMO.   I have heard both and have been impressed and hated both.

[jrebman]

Lots of good explanations, theories, etc., and I tend to most agree with them.  I've owned both, and even some of the top, tube-like SS gear and I still keep coming back to tubes -- where I started with all this back in the 60s listening to my Dad's heathkit and my uncle's Scott gear.

The sonics are one thing for sure, and I do like the flavoring (distortion) that tubes bring vs. solid state and think Tyson is onto something with his opening remarks, but I also notice a pretty pronounced physiological reaction in that I seem to relax fully while listenint to tube gear, whereas I'm always tesnse and jittery when listening to SS amps.  I don't really have any idea why this is so, if it's purely placebo, or if there's more to it, but I listen to music to relax and enjoy, so why feel nervous and uptight while listening?

I'm very happy where I am now and have learned my lesson even though I know there are probably some SS pieces out there that will sound good to me.  I like tubes, and that's all there is to it .

-- Jim

[rajacat]

Agreed.  Although, if we take the "warmth" of tube gear as "accurate to real life", then it is SS gear that is colored.

Or more specifically, tube gear is accurate to life, and SS gear is colored in a sterile and cold manner.

I think the reality is that both are colored.  Just pick the colorations you prefer.

I agree with this statement. SS is colored too, if it wasn't you couldn't change the tonality of SS gear by just changing some caps. To say that tube gear is inherently more distorted than SS gear is not necessarily true because comtemporary mesurement equipment can't measure all aspects of sound quality.

-Roy

EDITED

[rajacat]

Also, IMO it's not appropriate to change a cap or tube to add "flavoring". I think the goal of the audiophile is to come as close as possible to reproducing live music and not just haphazardly tune your rig without a reference point. For me, live acoustical music doesn't have a SS edge or sterile texture or does it have a bloated or "flavored" tube sound.

-Roy