[Moon Doggy]

The Torus is the Biggest bang for the buck easily. Just got my Torus BX 10 yesterday and the bass that is now coming out of my traditionally "polite" B&Ws is astonishing. And its fast, tight and not as boomy or muddled as before with dense recordings such as Guns n' Roses' "Chinese Democracy". IMO with the great gear you have the Torus is a must have! Horizontal bi-amping is a very modest improvement in comparison. Now monoblocs are another story...

[James Tanner]

Hi James;

I was afraid you would suggest that. The problem is $$$. When I save enough to buy a Torus for my system, it will be big enough to support the 14BST i.e. it would be the 20A version. At the current price-point, if I have enough money to buy the 20A Torus, I would wonder if I could get a better sounding system, by investing that money in a new 3BSST2 to run the top while the 14BST takes care of the buttom end. I know this is off-topic, but I have no experience with biamped systems: which route would be the biggest bang for the buck. If you had my gear (14BST, BCD1, BP26MC, B&W 804s) which would you chose?

Thank you.

Hi,

I think reducing the noise floor of your system is the priority.

james

[SF]

The Torus is the Biggest bang for the buck easily. Just got my Torus BX 10 yesterday and the bass that is now coming out of my traditionally "polite" B&Ws is astonishing. And its fast, tight and not as boomy or muddled as before with dense recordings such as Guns n' Roses' "Chinese Democracy". IMO with the great gear you have the Torus is a must have! Horizontal bi-amping is a very modest improvement in comparison. Now monoblocs are another story...

Don't say that .... I started with hiss and buzz, and I am ending up with a fast-rising upgrade fever!

[SF]

Hi James;

I was afraid you would suggest that. The problem is $$. When I save enough to buy a Torus for my system, it will be big enough to support the 14BST i.e. it would be the 20A version. At the current price-point, if I have enough money to buy the 20A Torus, I would wonder if I could get a better sounding system, by investing that money in a new 3BSST2 to run the top while the 14BST takes care of the buttom end. I know this is off-topic, but I have no experience with biamped systems: which route would be the biggest bang for the buck. If you had my gear (14BST, BCD1, BP26MC, B&W 804s) which would you chose?

Thank you.

Hi,

I think reducing the noise floor of your system is the priority.

james

Thank you James. That's 2-0 for the Torus.

[Moon Doggy]

The Torus is the Biggest bang for the buck easily. Just got my Torus BX 10 yesterday and the bass that is now coming out of my traditionally "polite" B&Ws is astonishing. And its fast, tight and not as boomy or muddled as before with dense recordings such as Guns n' Roses' "Chinese Democracy". IMO with the great gear you have the Torus is a must have! Horizontal bi-amping is a very modest improvement in comparison. Now monoblocs are another story...

Don't say that .... I started with hiss and buzz, and I am ending up with a fast-rising upgrade fever!

Sorry, I'm just a bit excited over the upgrade. Just trying to reassure you that the Torus are worth the $ investment in a system upgrade. Demo a fully broken in unit (50+ hrs?) and see if you agree.

Regards, James

[SF]

The Torus is the Biggest bang for the buck easily. Just got my Torus BX 10 yesterday and the bass that is now coming out of my traditionally "polite" B&Ws is astonishing. And its fast, tight and not as boomy or muddled as before with dense recordings such as Guns n' Roses' "Chinese Democracy". IMO with the great gear you have the Torus is a must have! Horizontal bi-amping is a very modest improvement in comparison. Now monoblocs are another story...

Don't say that .... I started with hiss and buzz, and I am ending up with a fast-rising upgrade fever!

Sorry, I'm just a bit excited over the upgrade. Just trying to reassure you that the Torus are worth the $ investment in a system upgrade. Demo a fully broken in unit (50+ hrs?) and see if you agree.

Regards, James

Hi James (MoonDoggy);

It sounds like the Torus just recently joined the rest of your system. Congrats on the upgrade!
Do you mind sharing what the rest of your system consists of?

Thank you,
Shafie

[Moon Doggy]

Hi James (MoonDoggy);

It sounds like the Torus just recently joined the rest of your system. Congrats on the upgrade!
Do you mind sharing what the rest of your system consists of?

Thank you,
Shafie

Sure no problem.

 2 Channel System
 Clearaudio Emotion Turntable with Benz ACE-S cartridge
 Moon LP3 Phono Stage
 Bright Star Turntable Platform
 Auralex Room Treatments
 Audioquest Q-Feet under CD player, amp and speakers
 Tara Labs Air 3 Speaker cables and Interconnects
 Tara Labs Prism AC Special Power Cords
 Target Hi Fi Audio Rack
 Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player
 Creek Destiny Integrated Amp
 Torus BX 10 Power Isolation Unit and Line Conditioner
 B&W 704 Speakers

 Regards, James

[alexone]

MoonDoggy,

you bought a BX10.

- how did you find out that this unit is the right one for your system?
- or does anyone recommended it to you?


thanx,

al.

[werd]

Actually i am curious also.... i am sure i would be ok with a rm10 right, with my 4b and a 400 watt sub? or maybe an rm15?

[vegasdave]

Guns n' Roses' "Chinese Democracy"

Great album.

[Moon Doggy]

MoonDoggy,

you bought a BX10.

- how did you find out that this unit is the right one for your system?
- or does anyone recommended it to you?


thanx,

al.

The Torus BX 10 Amp Unit is for setups that demand a 10 amp RMS current draw in total. I believe that is either the nominal or average draw @ 8 ohm. That is not the peak RMS draw or is it the instantaneous draws that can be > 30 amps for a second or much higher for a 1/2 cycle. My Creek amp is different design than a Bryston Amp because it is a low watt/ high current design. 100 watts but it puts out around 9 Amps RMS average and I think just over 6 minimum. Also, it puts out > 25 amps peak RMS. This is from my discussions with the amp manufacturer.  So using the minimum of 6 amps @ 8 ohms the BX 5 was too small. So I got the BX 10 since it puts out 30 amps for 10 second periods and my high current amp can put out over 25 amps. If you have a sub and a pre-amp you would need to find out the RMS minimum draws at 8 ohms for each device and total it up. Of course if your speaker dips below 4 ohms then the current demand would be higher so it becomes quite confusing because  the different manufacturers don't always specify what type of RMS current spec they are using. The Torus site says "A typical 200 watt audio power amplifier demands 10 amps RMS current" and given the close relationship between Torus and Bryston I'm assuming these are typical specs for the high watt Bryston designs.
werd: Using the info from the Torus website your 300 watt Bryston 4B St would need a RM 15 and then with your sub etc you will probably need a 20 amp unit. But a sub might be a special case. Ask your dealer to be sure.
   This is what I've been able to figure out in my investigations but I'm sure open to any clarifications because it can get rather confusing.
 I chose the BX style unit over the RM because I prefer its look and I didn't want rack ears on my unit. The two styles are identical performers otherwise. Hope this helps shed a bit of light. I  erred on the side of extra power in case of future upgrades.

Regards, James

[SF]

Thank you James. That's very informative. You have a killer system especially on the analog side. I have been thinking of the way the Torus works, and I can understand how it can improve the performance of the power amp or the CD player. But I don't understand how it can affect the performance of BP26 which has its own power supply that presumably also acts as a passive AC filter to put out clean DC to the attached components. It also should not affect the phono with the exception of possible variation in the speed of the motor as it rotates the plinth. I already have the Pro-Ject Speedbox that looks after that aspect as well. The Torus should not affect the inflow of RFI/EMI via the phone cable and the input on the BP26. So on the analog side it should not make a difference. Am I missing something?

[James Tanner]

Thank you James. That's very informative. You have a killer system especially on the analog side. I have been thinking of the way the Torus works, and I can understand how it can improve the performance of the power amp or the CD player. But I don't understand how it can affect the performance of BP26 which has its own power supply that presumably also acts as a passive AC filter to put out clean DC to the attached components. It also should not affect the phono with the exception of possible variation in the speed of the motor as it rotates the plinth. I already have the Pro-Ject Speedbox that looks after that aspect as well. The Torus should not affect the inflow of RFI/EMI via the phone cable and the input on the BP26. So on the analog side it should not make a difference. Am I missing something?

Hi SF,

Your correct - the Torus is an ISOLATION TRANSFORMER (as well as surge protector) so it ISOLATES whatever is plugged into it from the outside world.  So in your home if you have lights, dimmers, fridges, compressors etc. on the same feed the Torus prevents any of the noise and distortion from affecting the performance of your system. 

What some people do not realize is that it is just not what is on that specific circuit in your home that can be contaminating your system but also anything on the same power grid throughout your home and your neighbourhood.

So if the problem as you say is the cables in the Phono section picking up and amplifying RF etc. the Torus will not help it that situation.

james

[SF]

Thank you James. There is no doubt that Torus low impedance output with huge enrgy reserves is very likely to improve the performance of my amp. I am moving soon, and the first thing I am going to do is to have an electrician install a dedicated 20A line for the 20A 14BST. In that setting, I would love to audition a Torus. I have found, in general, dealers in Toronto are not very receptive to the idea of auditioning.

Are you aware of any dealers in North Toronto that will allow customers to audition a Torus?

Thank you again,
Shafie

[SF]

Hi SF,

With phono there is almost always hiss, especially at full volume, it's just the nature of the beast, multiple amplification stages.
Hum is usually picked up though the cables, sometimes the cartridge itself.
Try changing interconnects, in the past I've found shielded microphone cable worked very well.
Currently I'm running a high output Sumiko MC on a Rega P3/2000 though the MM input, the cables on the Rega are hard wired and are grounded via the ground of the cable itself and hum is almost non existent.

Robert

Hi Robert

Will any shielded mic wire work as a sub for phono cable? And did you do the RCA termination yourself? I have no idea what a mic cable even looks like.
Thank you.

Does anyone else have any experience with shielded mic cable.

Shafie

[James Tanner]

Thank you James. There is no doubt that Torus low impedance output with huge enrgy reserves is very likely to improve the performance of my amp. I am moving soon, and the first thing I am going to do is to have an electrician install a dedicated 20A line for the 20A 14BST. In that setting, I would love to audition a Torus. I have found, in general, dealers in Toronto are not very receptive to the idea of auditioning.

Are you aware of any dealers in North Toronto that will allow customers to audition a Torus?

Thank you again,
Shafie

Try - Ovation Audio in Aurora.

james

[SF]

Thank you very much James. As always, very much appreciated.
Shafie

[rob80b]

Hi SF,

With phono there is almost always hiss, especially at full volume, it's just the nature of the beast, multiple amplification stages.
Hum is usually picked up though the cables, sometimes the cartridge itself.
Try changing interconnects, in the past I've found shielded microphone cable worked very well.
Currently I'm running a high output Sumiko MC on a Rega P3/2000 though the MM input, the cables on the Rega are hard wired and are grounded via the ground of the cable itself and hum is almost non existent.

Robert

Hi Robert

Will any shielded mic wire work as a sub for phono cable? And did you do the RCA termination yourself? I have no idea what a mic cable even looks like.
Thank you.

Does anyone else have any experience with shielded mic cable.

Shafie

Hi Shafie,

Some of the better known are Mogami, Canare and Beldin, I preferred the shielded mic cable because they are very flexible and are easy to move around when trying to isolate RFI and hum problems if they occur.
You could make up your own, although I've found Bluejeans reasonable priced with fast shipping to Canada and saves you the hassle of running around.

Robert

[alexone]

MoonDoggy,

you bought a BX10.

- how did you find out that this unit is the right one for your system?
- or does anyone recommended it to you?


thanx,

al.

The Torus BX 10 Amp Unit is for setups that demand a 10 amp RMS current draw in total. I believe that is either the nominal or average draw @ 8 ohm. That is not the peak RMS draw or is it the instantaneous draws that can be > 30 amps for a second or much higher for a 1/2 cycle. My Creek amp is different design than a Bryston Amp because it is a low watt/ high current design. 100 watts but it puts out around 9 Amps RMS average and I think just over 6 minimum. Also, it puts out > 25 amps peak RMS. This is from my discussions with the amp manufacturer.  So using the minimum of 6 amps @ 8 ohms the BX 5 was too small. So I got the BX 10 since it puts out 30 amps for 10 second periods and my high current amp can put out over 25 amps. If you have a sub and a pre-amp you would need to find out the RMS minimum draws at 8 ohms for each device and total it up. Of course if your speaker dips below 4 ohms then the current demand would be higher so it becomes quite confusing because  the different manufacturers don't always specify what type of RMS current spec they are using. The Torus site says "A typical 200 watt audio power amplifier demands 10 amps RMS current" and given the close relationship between Torus and Bryston I'm assuming these are typical specs for the high watt Bryston designs.
werd: Using the info from the Torus website your 300 watt Bryston 4B St would need a RM 15 and then with your sub etc you will probably need a 20 amp unit. But a sub might be a special case. Ask your dealer to be sure.
   This is what I've been able to figure out in my investigations but I'm sure open to any clarifications because it can get rather confusing.
 I chose the BX style unit over the RM because I prefer its look and I didn't want rack ears on my unit. The two styles are identical performers otherwise. Hope this helps shed a bit of light. I  erred on the side of extra power in case of future upgrades.

Regards, James

thanx, MoonDoggy. 


al.

[SF]

Hi SF,

With phono there is almost always hiss, especially at full volume, it's just the nature of the beast, multiple amplification stages.
Hum is usually picked up though the cables, sometimes the cartridge itself.
Try changing interconnects, in the past I've found shielded microphone cable worked very well.
Currently I'm running a high output Sumiko MC on a Rega P3/2000 though the MM input, the cables on the Rega are hard wired and are grounded via the ground of the cable itself and hum is almost non existent.

Robert

Hi Robert

Will any shielded mic wire work as a sub for phono cable? And did you do the RCA termination yourself? I have no idea what a mic cable even looks like.
Thank you.

Does anyone else have any experience with shielded mic cable.

Shafie

Hi Shafie,

Some of the better known are Mogami, Canare and Beldin, I preferred the shielded mic cable because they are very flexible and are easy to move around when trying to isolate RFI and hum problems if they occur.
You could make up your own, although I've found Bluejeans reasonable priced with fast shipping to Canada and saves you the hassle of running around.

Robert

Thank you Robert for that info. I will check out Bluejeans.