Budget starter amp for Tekton FE167 speakers

bunnyma357 · « **Reply #40 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 01:05 pm »

Quote from: bacobits1 on 16 Mar 2009, 04:02 pm

If I had those speakers I would seriously consider one of the Melody/Onix offerings used, an integrated Onix SP3 MKII of which there are a few on Agon right now in the price category cheaper than the new Glow amp. Not SET but would perform very nicely.

D

AV123 has some B-Stock SP3's at $349, which is a great price. I bought one at $499 and considered that a great deal. Since this made by Melody and should be in-stock it would probably avoid AV123's recent delivery/QC issues. Don't know how many they have, and I know of 2 people that already picked up one of these.

Jim C

Looks like these are no longer there - so they must of cleared out what they had.

jk@home · « **Reply #41 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 03:12 pm »

Thanks for all the suggestions folks.

Decided on going with the S.E.X. kit. Should be easy enough to build, might even learn something.

Doc's Sexy speaker setup appears to be close to what I plan to accomplish. Depending on how low the Tektons go, I can either use my one Rythmik 15" servo sub, or the two 2- 12" sealed enclosures I build originally to go with a pair of MMGs (those sub drivers extend up to 100 Hz.).

http://www.bottlehead.com/loosep/S.E.Xy%20speakers.html

strider · « **Reply #42 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 04:23 pm »

Sounds like a winner!

Really interested in hearing what your thoughts are about the Bottlehead kit and how you like the combo of it and the Tekton's.

I think it's a great concept, having a pair of single drivers augmented on the lower end by a sub/woofer (or two). Tube amp on the top and SS on the bottom, seems like it should bring out the best in both designs. Hopefully I'm headed that way myself in the not too distant future.

Take care,
Ben

chrisby · « **Reply #43 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 07:25 pm »

Quote from: pjanda1 on 19 Mar 2009, 02:36 am

I didn't know if you'd be willing to do a quasi-scratch build, but the SimpleSE would be a great option. I'm currently working on a variation of Eli Duttman's "El Cheapo". Massive Thread Here, Schematic Here. It was sort of inspired by chrisby's (if he's who I think he is) , in that it uses a bunch of salvaged parts (mine has a wilder power supply). I know the SimpleSE would be much easier due to it's PCB based nature, but after all the chassis work and parts layout planning of my current project, the S.E.X. looks awfully attractive. I do like all the problem solving, but it takes more time than you'd think.

Well, I'm not even sure if I'm who I think I am, but yup another vote for the El Cheapo project.

In my case this was a recycled vintage Scott integrated amp, so some rejigging of Eli's design was required to take advantage of existing parts. With some help on power supply and operating points from Eddie Vaughn, this little guy gets more play time than the much more powerful Jolida 302 (EL34)

pjanda1 · « **Reply #44 on:** 20 Mar 2009, 09:23 pm »

I was pretty sure that was you. Tough to keep track of everybody's moniker on different forums.

I just saw a post over on Bottlehead's forum that the S.E.X. amp is $100 off through the end of this weekend. That certainly sweetens the deal if you were interested.

I'll get some more soldering done this evening. With luck, I'll soon be joining the ranks of you other tube guys.

pj

jrebman · « **Reply #45 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 12:23 am »

Oh, didn't need to know about the bottlehead discount. My zigmahornets for the bedroom are going to need an amp at some point

.

No money now though, but for anybody who's considering it, a great incentive.

-- Jim

JLM · « **Reply #46 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 09:29 am »

Hope the Bottlehead has enough output for your application with FE167. I ran a small amp with single driver Fostex for a while and it sounded surprisingly good, but using the recommended amp output turned them from polite dinner guests into NFL linebackers in tuxedos.

Not quite an epiphany, but an audio rule to live by: the amp should to sized to provide a commanding grip of the speakers.

jk@home · « **Reply #47 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 12:52 pm »

Guess we'll see, I went with the SEX deal.

The goal is to be able to play at low to medium levels, with decent tone and imaging. Something my larger speakers couldn't do in this room.

Anyway, I'll be getting the speakers in a couple of days and will first try them out on the Aragon 8002 SS amp, rated @ 125watts. It will be interesting to compare that setup with the SEX amp.

chrisby · « **Reply #48 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 07:05 am »

Quote from: jk@home on 21 Mar 2009, 12:52 pm

Guess we'll see, I went with the SEX deal.

The goal is to be able to play at low to medium levels, with decent tone and imaging. Something my larger speakers couldn't do in this room.

Anyway, I'll be getting the speakers in a couple of days and will first try them out on the Aragon 8002 SS amp, rated @ 125watts. It will be interesting to compare that setup with the SEX amp.

next time try to remember the punctuation in the model name - the first line could line could get you into trouble

all joking aside, this is a cute little kit, and at the special pricing, certainly a helluva bargain - enjoy

capace · « **Reply #49 on:** 25 Mar 2009, 02:13 am »

I built a pair of 167.

On a budget I ran mine off of the sonic impact t-amp.

http://www.uncrate.com/men/gear/portable-media/sonic-impact-tamp/

They work well. Especially on a high sensitivity driver such as the 167e. Now that product has been discontinued, but there are still products available using the tri path 2024 chip for relatively cheap. Several for under $100.00

Now you won't get tons of bass, but the 167e does not have deep bottom end anyways. The 167'es are a really nice choice!

jk@home · « **Reply #50 on:** 25 Mar 2009, 04:16 pm »

I got the Tektons going today, driven by the Aragon. The Fiddleback maple finish matches great with my diy Ikea Lack table rack. I have them on 24" Skylan clone stands.

I tried to pin down the previous owner to how many hours he had logged on to them, didn't get a definitive answer. I'm assuming not much. Anyway, the two quick observations I've made so far is, they sound better un-eqed then the Thiels did in this room, and they sound more flat at lower volumes then the Thiels (playing "background music" levels), which was one of the main reasons I wanted to change the setup. So it's looking promising

Not much depth though. Hope that will improve.

I may be able to live with the highs coming out of these, without adding a super tweet. There is bass there, not sure yet whether I will be able to get away with just one sub. Probably need to wait and see how the S.E.X. amp does with them first.

I haven't checked, but have read that these speakers have BSC filtering in them. Can this filtering be bypassed and replaced with digital eq-ing upstream, or is it more complicated then that? My thinking is I probably will want to do a little EQ tweaking anyway, and maybe gain some resolution with the removal of the BSC components.

pjanda1 · « **Reply #51 on:** 25 Mar 2009, 08:02 pm »

Boy, I can't imagine you'll find a digital EQ as transparent as the passive BSC components. I suppose if you are using a hard disk as a source and had a good machine, it might work. Proaudio EQ's are loaded with all sorts of super cheap op amps. Keep in mind that you'll have a really pure, transparent system with the single driver speakers and the S.E.X. amp. If there is a BSC filter in there, you could pull it out easily.

Now, there is something to be said for The S.E.X.y. Speaker method. Do the BSC passively, but at line level prior to the SEX amp. It'll really help you get the most out of 1.5 Watts. If you go this route, also consider stuffing the ports and using the FE167's like sealed boxes. You'll get a lot more out of their limited excursion. Not only will it increase dynamic range, but it will lower distortion in the midrange and treble. Of course, the -3db point would go way up, necessitating dual subs.

But I suggest you break in the speakers real well, build the amp and get used to the whole system before making any decisions.

pj
p.s.: Got my EC amp breaking in as we speak. It sounds great! It's not done yet. The B+ ended up quite low, so I'm trying to decide how to proceed.

jk@home · « **Reply #52 on:** 26 Mar 2009, 12:11 am »

Yes, I'm using a Squeezebox/PC setup, with a Channel Islands DAC, so the Behringer EQ is being used strictly digitally, not it's internal A/D and D/As.

But you're right, I need to wait and see. Thanks for the ideas to try later.

jk@home · « **Reply #53 on:** 26 Mar 2009, 12:55 pm »

Well, curiosity got the best of me, so I opened the speakers up, only to find no BSC circuitry at all, just two wires, from binding posts the speaker terminals. Is the BSC not always necessary?

jrebman · « **Reply #54 on:** 26 Mar 2009, 03:15 pm »

JK,

No, depends on the driver, enclosure design, listening tastes, room, etc. If it's not there and sounds good, no need in putting something else in the signal path. My Abbys didn't have a BSC circuit because the design balanced the frequencies fairly well across the spectrum. As Chris suggested, a phase plug and EnABLing along with other basket treatments, etc. can go a long way to taming a shouty driver, and avoiding silver and silver-plated wiring also helps, in my experience.

But all that said, don't make any decisions until the s.e.x. amp is done and you have several hundred hours on both the amp and speakers as a system because any decisions you make about how to tailor the sound will change somewhat once everything settles in. Things only get better as you go.

HTH,

Jim

stone deaf · « **Reply #55 on:** 27 Mar 2009, 07:30 pm »

I recently sold a Tec-on SE34i integrated SET tube amp 8wpc. It came with EL34 power tubes but you can use just about any octal power tube, I liked it best with KT88 or Svetlana Wing C 6L6. It's a basic two input, single out unit with volume control but it does sound pretty good with efficient speakers. Another amp to look at is a used Decware or if you are handy with soldering iron the Decware amp kit. Only 2 watts but a beautiful 2 watts.

strider · « **Reply #56 on:** 28 Mar 2009, 03:27 pm »

Quote from: stone deaf on 27 Mar 2009, 07:30 pm

I recently sold a Tec-on SE34i integrated SET tube amp 8wpc. It came with EL34 power tubes but you can use just about any octal power tube, I liked it best with KT88 or Svetlana Wing C 6L6. It's a basic two input, single out unit with volume control but it does sound pretty good with efficient speakers. Another amp to look at is a used Decware or if you are handy with soldering iron the Decware amp kit. Only 2 watts but a beautiful 2 watts.

The Decware amp kit is intriguing. Have you built or heard one?

jk@home · « **Reply #57 on:** 28 Mar 2009, 04:49 pm »

The one shown here is "Planked", With more work, one could chassis mount it:

http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/1170/decware-zen-triode-diy-tube-amp-kit

Speaking of which, I'm debating whether I should give my S.E.X. the chrome treatment: Sure looks pretty.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/sexamp.html

nodiak · « **Reply #58 on:** 29 Mar 2009, 04:46 pm »

jk, I'm interested in how things go for you. I also use a Rythmik (12") with sd's and lil amps. Found the rythmik to stay cleaner than other subs and match well with Fostex 127/167 and Hemp FR8. Felt the 167 was a bit soft in mids compared to other 2, tho I like it a lot. Currently cheating and using FR8 w/ Focal T90ti tweeters, cap and coil xo (good combo).
Just got a Virtue One w/ 24v ps and it is not harsh. Very balanced and smooth. Seems more complete detail than lm3875. Never tried other tripaths or chips tho. But nothing has the air and space of tubes imo, and sub takes care of any soft bass syndrome.
Previously Vaughn el84 (pre Carina era) and Scott 222c w/ rythmik via speaker level hookup worked great (actually the Scott also had a center channel that worked for sub). Always curious about Bottlehead. Imo the low watts work when going to powered sub for < 80hz or so.
Might get back to tubes later in year. Will keep up with your thread.
Good luck!
Don

jk@home · « **Reply #59 on:** 30 Mar 2009, 01:10 am »

That's good news, Don. The servo Rythmik I have is the DS1500 kit, that I installed ("retro-ed") in an old downfiring HSU tabletop sub, that was previously a 12"ported. Made an external enclosure for the PEQ amp.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64225.0

The other two smaller front firing subs I have are also Rythmiks, but they are his old "LT" drivers (basically TC Sounds TC-1000s), that I picked up on sale. Planned on using Makie pro amps for them in the HT system. If I use these in this system, will have to come up with something else, as the pro amp fans are audible.

Here's a question to anyone. I've been breaking in the speakers, stuck them in a closet, out of phase, with high levels of pink noise from a Stereophile test disc spinning on repeat. But only at the 50-hour mark now.

Pulled them out tonight to play around with placement. Tried all the different toe-in positions (even "over-toed", which I read was recommended for single drivers), with the speakers pulled out from the walls, same as where the previous speakers were.

But so far the most coherent soundstage is with the speakers stuck back in the room corners, toed in directly facing me. Do the usually rules of keeping speakers off wall boundaries not apply as much to single drivers? Or is it a matter of these drivers just needing the space to blend properly? I'm picking up more bass with the Tektons in the corners, but that's not the only improvement.