Extreme MTM Monitor

Rick Craig · « **on:** 26 Feb 2009, 04:30 pm »

Is there an interest in something around $1,500-$2,000/pr.?

Rick Craig · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Feb 2009, 04:35 pm »

Seas,Scan-Speak,RAAL,etc. drivers.

Kris · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 09:19 pm »

Not too long ago, It was that saying in America "if you build it they will come", and i always wanted a nice MTM pair, but today i' m too scared to buy a pair of socks.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 03:21 am »

Quote from: Kris on 27 Feb 2009, 09:19 pm

Not too long ago, It was that saying in America "if you build it they will come", and i always wanted a nice MTM pair, but today i' m too scared to buy a pair of socks.

I certainly understand as we (those living in the USA) do have some obstacles to overcome. I'm happy to say that Selah Audio is alive and well so we'll be here when you are ready to buy speakers.

cadobhuk · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 04:20 am »

How can you fit an MTM speaker using RAAL+ss/seas under $2k?

Rick Craig · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 04:48 am »

Quote from: cadobhuk on 2 Mar 2009, 04:20 am

How can you fit an MTM speaker using RAAL+ss/seas under $2k?

It's not easy.

I just quoted a pair and this is going to be hard to beat. We can do other combinations as well. For instance, if someone wants to save some $ we can substitute the Seas CA15RLY woofers which are found in floorstanders in the $1700-$2200 range. The RAAL tweeter with the CA15's is $1,700/pr. including shipping and the RAAL is far superior to the tweeters everyone else is using. Not low enough? Then how about a Scan-Speak AirCirc / CA15 combination for $1,400? These prices include deluxe crossover parts as well - who knows what the others are using? No skimping on the parts here.

ecramer · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 04:51 am »

Rick your killing me stop teasing me

Quote from: Rick Craig on 2 Mar 2009, 04:48 am

Quote from: cadobhuk on 2 Mar 2009, 04:20 am
How can you fit an MTM speaker using RAAL+ss/seas under $2k?

It's not easy.

I just quoted a pair and this is going to be hard to beat. We can do other combinations as well. For instance, if someone wants to save some $ we can substitute the Seas CA15RLY woofers which are found in floorstanders in the $1700-$2200 range. The RAAL tweeter with the CA15's is $1,700/pr. including shipping and the RAAL is far superior to the tweeters everyone else is using. Not low enough? Then how about a Scan-Speak AirCirc / CA15 combination for $1,400? These prices include deluxe crossover parts as well - who knows what the others are using? No skimping on the parts here.

EDS_ · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 04:58 am »

For sure. I going to make a move regarding my speakers sometime soon. I'm not certain if an MTM arrangement would be good, bad or indifferent given my smallish (170ft^2) room.

The RAAL units are very interesting.

Could these be driven reasonably with 60 or so pp tube watts?

Rick Craig · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 05:13 am »

Quote from: EDS_ on 2 Mar 2009, 04:58 am

For sure. I going to make a move regarding my speakers sometime soon. I'm not certain if an MTM arrangement would be good, bad or indifferent given my smallish (170ft^2) room.

The RAAL units are very interesting.

Could these be driven reasonably with 60 or so pp tube watts?

No problem driving this load. MTM's are really not that much different in terms of room interface except for less floor and ceiling reflections. The vertical coverage depends on how the design is implemented. I tend to favor a wider vertical sweetspot so my designs don't keep your head stuck in a vice.

cadobhuk · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 10:48 am »

Isn't ER15RLY a bit better than CA15 for the same price? Would either of them do justice to the RAAL ? How does a pair of 5" prestige drivers compare to a single 6.5" excel driver?

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 11:44 am »

Is there a design that would be sensitive enough like those Zalytron MTMs that can be ran with single digit watts? I have not seen much coming out in the high sensitivity camp such as those used to be offered at North Creek Audio and Zalytron.

EDS_ · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 02:14 pm »

Quote from: Rick Craig on 2 Mar 2009, 05:13 am

Quote from: EDS_ on 2 Mar 2009, 04:58 am
For sure. I going to make a move regarding my speakers sometime soon. I'm not certain if an MTM arrangement would be good, bad or indifferent given my smallish (170ft^2) room.

The RAAL units are very interesting.

Could these be driven reasonably with 60 or so pp tube watts?

No problem driving this load. MTM's are really not that much different in terms of room interface except for less floor and ceiling reflections. The vertical coverage depends on how the design is implemented. I tend to favor a wider vertical sweetspot so my designs don't keep your head stuck in a vice.

Thanks Rick. Put me in the interested column.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 04:14 pm »

Quote from: cadobhuk on 2 Mar 2009, 10:48 am

Isn't ER15RLY a bit better than CA15 for the same price? Would either of them do justice to the RAAL ? How does a pair of 5" prestige drivers compare to a single 6.5" excel driver?

They are pretty close but I would tend to favor the ER15RLY because of the cone material. That's why I used the ER18 in the SA-2 design.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 05:07 pm »

Quote from: Bemopti123 on 2 Mar 2009, 11:44 am

Is there a design that would be sensitive enough like those Zalytron MTMs that can be ran with single digit watts? I have not seen much coming out in the high sensitivity camp such as those used to be offered at North Creek Audio and Zalytron.

It depends on what you would consider to be high sensitivity. Most 5" drivers are going to be in the 85db-88db range and you need to run them in parallel to get a sensitivity of 90db or better. The problem is that the impedance is now in the 3-4 ohm range and most SET amps need a higher impedance than that. You can spec a woofer for higher sensitivity than the average; however, the bass extension will often be pretty anemic unless you make the suspension very compliant. Changing the suspension increases the box size quite a bit so there's no free lunch.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Mar 2009, 05:54 pm »

Quote from: cadobhuk on 2 Mar 2009, 10:48 am

Isn't ER15RLY a bit better than CA15 for the same price? Would either of them do justice to the RAAL ? How does a pair of 5" prestige drivers compare to a single 6.5" excel driver?

Forgot to mention - I think the SB Acoustics 5" is even better and less expensive than the CA15RLY. The SB drivers are designed by engineers who used to work for Scan-Speak. They also have a new dome tweeter that looks like it be will outstanding as well.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Mar 2009, 08:06 pm »

Looking forward to shipping the Seas-RAAL monitors to California. Delivery is just a few weeks away.

kip_ · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Mar 2009, 08:58 pm »

How forgiving would a design like this be compared to the Mejor or the Esatto on not-so-great recordings? It will obviously have less midrange detail retrieval. I'd be somewhat hesitant to ever buy a hyper-detailed speaker like the Mejor since I largely listen to (compressed) rock music.

I guess paper cone vs. metal cone woofers have a bit to do with this as well?

Rick Craig · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 12:47 am »

Quote from: kip_ on 9 Mar 2009, 08:58 pm

How forgiving would a design like this be compared to the Mejor or the Esatto on not-so-great recordings? It will obviously have less midrange detail retrieval. I'd be somewhat hesitant to ever buy a hyper-detailed speaker like the Mejor since I largely listen to (compressed) rock music.

I guess paper cone vs. metal cone woofers have a bit to do with this as well?

This has always been a controversial subject. I've long been a proponent of producing the most neutral speaker possible regardless of the drivers implemented in the design. If a speaker leans towards being too bright / forward then lower fidelity recordings will suffer the most. Compression has to do more with dynamics and the real culprits are often added effects and microphone issues.

skiz6151 · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 04:04 pm »

Rick I am interested in purchasing one of these extreme MTM using RAAL/Seas. This will be my first jump into the high end audio circle, now I'm wondering if there is a sample pic of the speaker? I would like to know what it looks like before purchasing also the size of the thing

kip_ · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 09:34 pm »

Quote from: skiz6151 on 19 Mar 2009, 04:04 pm

Rick I am interested in purchasing one of these extreme MTM using RAAL/Seas. This will be my first jump into the high end audio circle, now I'm wondering if there is a sample pic of the speaker? I would like to know what it looks like before purchasing also the size of the thing

If you use the CA15RLY woofers then it will probably look a lot like this with a RAAL ribbon tweeter:

http://www.salksound.com/SongSurround.shtml (SongSurround II, MTM version)

but I'd look into the ER15RLY woofers or the SB Acoustics 5" woofer, just me $.02