S-9 upgrade

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rustydoglim

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S-9 upgrade
« on: 30 Jan 2009, 02:58 pm »
SP Tech can perform the cross-over and tweeter replacement for $800 per pair, shipping not included. This pricing is for USA customers only. We will have to figure out how to handle upgrade for international customers. You can tell the clear improvement over existing S-9. Deeper bass, more extension on the high freq.

If interested, email salesteam at nuforce

Jason

rustydoglim

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #1 on: 31 Jan 2009, 06:10 am »
For international customers, please also email salesteam at nuforce and we'll contact you and the distributor to handle the upgrade.
Basically we'll ship the tweeter with zobel network and cross-over circuit board to your distributor to perform the upgrade.

Rocket

Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #2 on: 3 Feb 2009, 09:25 am »
Hi Jason,

Thank you for taking the time to develop an SE version of the s9 speaker.  I am aware that the new tweeter is a beryllium dome type and I am wondering, if part of the upgrade, the parts in the xover are of high quality?  I heard a rumour that clarity capacitors might be used.

I will be contact the nuforce team to organise the upgrade.

Do you plan continuing selling the s9 speaker?

Regards

Rod
« Last Edit: 4 Feb 2009, 10:26 pm by Rocket »

rustydoglim

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #3 on: 10 Feb 2009, 11:37 am »
The new tweeter is NOT beryllium. We tried but it doesn't sound good. The sound improvement comes from new tweeter and more importantly, lowering the cross over freq between the tweeter and woofer to 1KHz.  We get tighter bass from the woofer and extended high from the new tweeter.

Whether we will make more S-9 is entirely depending on SP Tech's ability to make them in a cost effective manner.
We plan to sell the S-9 direct or through distributor only for limited production since it is too costly to make these speaker. At the price that we're selling, we all make practically no profit and there is no way to sustain the production of S-9

Rocket

Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #4 on: 2 May 2009, 01:46 am »
Hi Jason,

I'm wondering if Nuforce has been able to determine whether the s9 speaker upgrade can be retrofitted in the field?  It is too expensive to ship the speaker to and from the US.

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Rod

rustydoglim

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #5 on: 3 May 2009, 01:27 pm »
Sorry, we have the upgrade kits but unable to get to it due to other projects. I will push for getting the upgrade done in the next 2 weeks.

Rocket

Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #6 on: 3 May 2009, 02:24 pm »
double post.
« Last Edit: 4 May 2009, 10:23 pm by Rocket »

Rocket

Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #7 on: 3 May 2009, 11:50 pm »
Hi Jason,

Thanks for the update.  The last that I had heard was that the upgrade kit was being assessed whether it will be okay to retrofit in the field?

Btw are you able to let me know what tweeter you ended up using for the upgrade?

Thanks

Rod

rustydoglim

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #8 on: 23 Jul 2009, 11:35 am »
It took a while but there it is:
http://www.nuforce.com/support/download/S9%20Upgrade.pdf
Cost = $800 / pair
Contact Nuforce directly for the upgrade.

MacStealth

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #9 on: 23 Jul 2009, 09:15 pm »
Could you tell us a little more on the changes in specifications (freqs, sensititivity, power handling and BTW are the new tweeter ScanSpeak? and the crossover is Murdoff?...or...) and also how are the new listenning impresions of the upgraded S9's or new S9-SE... and finally, how the "new" Zobel network filter acts now?
Thanks in advance
Mac

nuforce-casey

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #10 on: 29 Jul 2009, 05:40 pm »
The new tweeter has lower extension and lower distortion.  The dispersion characteristic is also improved.   The result is an even more relaxed presentation and better midrange.  By lowering the crossover point, we further reduced the woofer disruption to the higher frequency, and the bass also improved a tad.


Rocket

Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #11 on: 30 Jul 2009, 11:06 am »
Hi Casey,

Thanks for the information regarding the new upgrade to the s9 speaker.  I quite like the sound of the speaker and further improvement will be great.  My only concern is currently the bass lacks a bit of definition and it is overpowering the rest of the speaker.  With the new tweeter and xover changes will I be able to have an appreciable improvement of the bass?

Thanks Rod

Rocket

Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #12 on: 15 May 2010, 11:31 am »
Hi,

I'm wondering whether you can provide me with further information regarding the s8 speaker that has been developed?

Regards

Rod

Aether Audio

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #13 on: 18 May 2010, 05:30 am »
Friends,

Thanks for asking!  :thumb: I'll do the best I can to help answer your questions.  For those that just can’t wait, skip to the bottom of this posting for specifications and pictures.   

NuForce S-9:

First of all, the S-9s can be upgraded to the new tweeter/waveguide system mentioned below.  Unfortunately though, due to the modification/addition of a phase-plug to the waveguide, the enclosures will have to be returned to the factory.  With regards to the improvements in performance, pretty much everything will be improved – including the bass.  The S-9 will be based on the research we’ve completed in the development of the new S-8 and will take that technology to its full potential.  Combining the S-9’s superior enclosure construction, high-power/high-excursion woofers and now the new waveguide/tweeter system… and we’re talking no equal in the market under $20K.  Follow me below and you’ll see what I mean.

NuForce S-8:

The new S-8 will truly establish a new benchmark in its price class.  The first and most notable aspect suggesting this is the development of its revolutionary waveguide/tweeter system.  It provides for an unprecedented, “industry first” crossover frequency of 500Hz by utilizing a new ring-radiator tweeter in combination with a proprietary phase-plug mounted centrally in the waveguide.  There are numerous advantages that this offers for improved performance.

The first major advantage is reduced distortion in the midrange resulting from less Inter-Modulation distortion produced by the woofers.  IM originates from the woofers as a by-product of attempting to reproduce midrange frequencies while simultaneously making the large excursions necessary to produce deep bass.  The deeper and more powerful the bass being produced – the greater the IM distortion produced over the midrange frequencies being covered by the woofer.  Consequently, if one reduces the range over which the woofer must operate, one will also reduce the amount of midrange IM generated.

This is generally the primary reason many speaker designs employ midrange drivers.  Unfortunately, the rule “less is more” applies though, and simply adding another driver risks trading one problem (high IM) for several others.  In the case of adding a midrange driver, the “down-side” is that the designer is forced to add more complexity via an additional crossover network.  We all know the “evils” that crossovers can create, and I could easily elaborate on numerous aspects thereof.  I will spare us all the tedium though and leave the investigation thereof up to the reader if they so choose.

Another drawback of using a midrange driver is that doing so messes up both the horizontal and particularly the vertical dispersion of the system.  Instead of one main vertical dispersion “lobe,” we now have two that we need to have converge on a single vertical listening axis.  The upshot is that doing so is possible, but almost invariably results in a very narrow vertical listening axis.  In other words, the speaker can be made to sound good when sitting down, but not when standing… or vise-versa. 

There are secondary issues that are similar on the horizontal axis, but are generally considered to be less of a concern.  This is fortunate, as while horizontal dispersion is an important issue as well, there’s little the designer of such systems can do about it anyway.  Oh… and this is one area of performance that a properly designed waveguide improves as well, but I digress.

The third drawback of using a midrange driver is that they suffer from the same problem that woofers do – cone “break-up” distortion.  All paper, plastic, Kevlar, carbon graphite (you name it) cones, will flex and produce "bending-wave” distortion signals. Midrange drivers are just as susceptible to this distortion as any other.  The only way to really avoid it is to use a diaphragm that is perfectly rigid, such as diamond.  The problem with that is simply one of exorbitant cost and device “delicacy.”

The only other practical/cost efficient way is to reduce the diaphragm size, such that it is simply too small to permit these flexing waves to propagate within its given dimensions.  The size required to achieve this though leads us right back to one the size of a typical tweeter diaphragm.  The only way out of this quandary is to “effectively” transform the tweeter into a midrange-tweeter device by providing a means of permitting the tweeter to operate down to the same frequency as that of a typical midrange driver.  The primary requirement to achieve this goal is to find a way of extending the tweeter’s low-end response while avoiding the distortion that would otherwise occur from excessive diaphragm excursion/distortion.  This then represents a third advantage of this new design, and is exactly what we have accomplished with the tweeter/waveguide system employed in the S-8 (and upgraded S-9).

As evidence to the dynamic headroom/ power handling capacity of this new system, we offer the graph below.  Upon inspection you will realize that the tweeter is far less stressed while being crossed over to the woofer at 500Hz, than many other more conventional tweeters crossed 2 octaves higher!



The first response curve with the big “hump” is the ring-radiator mounted in the waveguide/phase-plug assembly and measured without any crossover filters or equalization being applied.  The second “flat” response curve is the same combination, but now we have applied the full High-Pass crossover/equalization network.

Please note that the SPL of this second curve is essentially the same as it would be if the tweeter were mounted on a traditional flat baffle, except for the fact that it’s response extends to –6dB at 500Hz rather than the typical –6dB at 2kHz to 3kHz crossover frequency usually used.  Other than the stunning flatness of the second curve, we would draw your attention to the “difference” between it and the first curve.  Specifically, notice the “area” between them.  This difference represents the amount of attenuation needed to produce a flat response, and therefore the amount of drive current that is essentially being blocked from entering the tweeter.  Current is directly proportional to diaphragm excursion, so excursion is reduced by the same value in decibels.  As we can see, at 1.5kHz we must attenuate the drive current by -20dB, and over the entire response – from 5kHz on down - the current is reduced by no less than –10dB.  It can equally be said then that any and all distortion that would otherwise arise due to diaphragm excursion (when the tweeter is mounted on a typical flat baffle), will be attenuated (when mounted in our waveguide) by the same number of decibels as that of the drive current.  Considering that 10dB is a factor if x10 and 20dB a factor of x100 (logarithmic scale), this is a very significant achievement.  This is all the more true when you consider that the distortion that arises in any driver is primarily that resulting from diaphragm excursion.  In simplest terms, from 500Hz on up the new S-8/S-9 will offer one of the lowest distortion/highest accuracy and highest resolution performance levels of any loudspeaker in the world – bar none - and at any price point.

Finally, below we offer the complete system response graphs for your review.  These graphs only span the range above 100Hz, with the phase response only accurate from 200Hz on up.  Response measurements below 100Hz are complex and require special test conditions, and at this point in time our schedule has not permitted us to take them of sufficient quality for public posting.



Again, other than the relatively flat response, take note of the Phase & Group-Delay Response.  The G-D is less than 1.5 milliseconds and in particular, notice the response from 1kHz on up.  As you can see, the Phase changes only about 45 degrees and the G-D is essentially flat.  The sonic result of this is that the envelope response of a musical instrument waveform will be well preserved and highly accurate.  This means that the delicate harmonic balance between fundamental notes and their harmonic overtones will be preserved and therefore be reproduced with a naturalness and realism seldom experienced.  Transient response in the form of percussive instruments will be likewise, with the pluck of an acoustic guitar string as real as it gets and the snap of a snare drum rim-shot enough to make you flinch… even when you know its coming.

We could go on and talk about the imaging and sound-staging capabilities, the controlled dispersion and the elimination of diffraction artifacts resulting from waveguide technology, and more… but by now I’m sure everyone gets the point – with the point being that the new S-8 and the upgraded S-9s are VERY good loudspeakers.  We're pretty certain that it won’t be long and you won’t have to take our word for it either.

Take care,  :D
-Bob

S-8 SPECIFICATIONS:

FREQUENCY RESPONSE (anechoic)
47 Hz - 30 kHz +/- 2dB  (typically +/- 1dB)
–3dB @ 42Hz & 32kHz

LOW FREQUENCY TUNNING
Proprietary Hybrid Ported Reflex

LOW FREQUENCY ATTENUATION SLOPE
24 dB/Octave below 42 Hz

PHASE RESPONSE
Less than 360° from 100 Hz - 20 kHz

GROUP DELAY RESPONSE
Less than 1.5 mS @ 100Hz
Less than 1.0mS @ 500Hz
Less than 0.5 mS @ 1kHz
0.0mS from 2kHz to 32kHz

POWER HANDLING (continuous)
120 Watts RMS

PEAK POWER HANDING
Greater than 1,000 WATTS (10mS)

SENSITIVITY
90 dB SPL @ 1-W /1-Meter
93 dB SPL @ 2.83 V

IMPEDANCE
6-Ohms (nominal)
4-Ohms (minimum)

CROSSOVER
4th-order symmetrical, in-phase
Linkwitz - Riley @ 500 Hz

MINIMUM RECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER POWER
20-Watts RMS / Channel
(150-W or more / Ch. preferred)

LOW FREQUENCY DRIVER
(2) 7” Black-Anodized Aluminum Cone w/Solid Aluminum Phase-Plug

HIGH FREQUENCY DRIVER
Waveguide Loaded 29mm Textile Ring-Radiator

DIMENSIONS
22” (55.88 cm.) H X 9.44” (23.98 cm.) W X 15.35” (39.0 cm.) D (w/Grill)


The graph below is a computer model of the S-8 low frequency response and sensitivity when being driven by the industry standard of 2.83 Vrms.




The graph below is a computer model of the S-8 low frequency response and maximum output level before reaching the woofers’ excursion limits.  Add +3dB for a stereo pair.








« Last Edit: 19 May 2010, 06:27 pm by Aether Audio »

TRADERXFAN

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #14 on: 19 May 2010, 09:09 pm »
Price?

Aether Audio

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #15 on: 20 May 2010, 06:54 pm »
TRADERXFAN et.al.,

The MSRP for the new S-8 wil be $4,995.00 USD per pair.  Now... go bug your dealers to get a pair in so you can hear them!  :eyebrows:

Take care,
-Bob

Rocket

Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #16 on: 20 May 2010, 09:51 pm »
Hi Bob,

Do they use the same drivers?

Thanks

Rod

Aether Audio

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #17 on: 20 May 2010, 10:09 pm »
Rocket ,

The S-9 upgrade will use the same tweeter as the S-8s, but the S-9s use a different woofer.

Take care,
-Bob

JDUBS

Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #18 on: 9 Jun 2010, 01:56 am »
Bob, any pics of the upgraded S-9 and / or the S-8?

Also, is the upgrade price for the S-9 still $800 per pair?

Thanks
Jim

danbern3

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Re: S-9 upgrade
« Reply #19 on: 22 Jun 2010, 11:57 pm »
jason - are you still making the S-9 without grills? If so, please consider offering, better yet including, covers for the new S-9's. when not being utilized,  a cover would protect the speaker and even limit the amount of dust it attracts.
I have the S-9's and am in the process of having covers - vinyl exterior and an interior that does not generate static - custom made. they're $50 each....that's really quite inexpensive. you could probably do better than me.
btw - on my way to a NuForce system. except for the power conditioner (ps audio UPC200) everything will be NuForce. ..................dan