[flyer18151]

All,

I thought I'd give vinyl a try a few weeks ago- I bought a cheap $160 TT (almost entirely made of plastic) from a record store and a 180g pressing of some of my favorite albums. I'm playing this through a Yamaha RXV1600 and Klipsch RB-25 speakers. I've always been impressed with the sound quality from my Yamaha amp, but nothing has come close to the acoustic bliss of vinyl!! I'M HOOKED!!! Now its time to invest in a good TT, and this is where I need help.

I've done some research, and narrowed my choices down to 3: Project Xpression III, Music Hall MMF 5.1, and the more expensive Clearaudio Emotion. From what I can see, the components on the Project are much better than the Music Hall, but the Music Hall has gotten some good reviews from Stereofile's Michael Fremer as well as The Absolute Sound (which is admittedly more advertising driven). I can't tell if this is simply a marketing scheme or if the Music Hall is actually better than the Project (of which I can find no reviews at all). It seems to me that the Clearaudio should blow the others out of the water, but I know that spending more (in this case 1.5 times more) doesn't necessarily mean you get that much more than a name.  I do have to admit that the Clearaudio looks more like a piece of art than the other two, and I like that...



HELP!!

[2gumby2]

I recommend going to  www.kabusa.com   The Technics SL1200 series of turntables are outstanding for the money.

[woodsyi]

I am sorry you heard that.  Now you are doomed.    You will be going around yard sales, scouring Craig's List, local thrift shops and even plunging $50 a pop on 200g virgin 45's.  Actually, hit up all your aunts, uncles and their friends for their records in the attic. 

As for your first "audiophile" TT, a bunch on this circle really like DD and Kabusa.  I will hear it some day when I can borrow one.  In the mean time, don't forget the used market.  You can usually get a TT/arm at half the new retail price. 

[TheChairGuy]

Way to go Flyer!  You're not nuts....vinyl really does have 'something' altogether missing on CD.  Heard even on inexpensive turntables.

John

[twitch54]

Welcome to the world of 'Black Pizza' ! FWIW, Pro-Ject and Music Hall are made in the same plant over in the Chezk Republic to the best of my knowledge and are actually quite similar at their respective price points. Granted the highe end Pro-jects are more of a "Plinthless" style of table and while their arms are same or similar I suspect mfg tolerences , etc are the same.

With all this being said I for one think the Music Hall 5.1se represent a fine table for the money, one which would probably keep you happy for years. I used to own the MMf-9 and while I didn't care for the Goldring cart, once I replaced it with a Micro Benz 'Ace' it played mighty sweet music !

[bluemike]

Enjoy
Thanks for sharing your impressions 

[Wayner]

I will have to second 2gumby2's like for the Technics DD TT from KAB. Mount an Audio Technica AT440MLa cartridge to it and you have a very fine "starter" machine that you will enjoy for years. No belts to screw with, you get a TT engineered by some of the best minds on earth (as far as TT's go) and it will last for 30-40-50 years???? All for way under a grand, money saved to buy more "black pizza".

Wayner

[objektivone]

Way to go Flyer!  You're not nuts....vinyl really does have 'something' altogether missing on CD.  Heard even on inexpensive turntables.

John

I can agree with this. I can actually hear the difference on my portable Numark PT01 compared to a high quality mp3...... and that is almost the worst vinyl can sound I think. LOL.

[Nels Ferre]

Hi,

Here's another vote for the Technics/KAB 1200 series. They are built like a tank and Kevin at KAB offers optional upgrades for them as well if you want to go that route.

Another option would be a refurbushed Dual 1229 from www.fixmydual.com.  Of all the components I have owned that I no longer have, my 1229Q is the one I miss the most. This table sounds quite different from the Technics, but might be an ideal match to your Yamaha/Klipsch combo. It will be much "warmer" sounding than the Technics, but I think some warmth may be a good thing with what you currently own.

One more thing you need- the KAB EV1 record cleaner does a nice job of cleaning LPs at a very reasonable price.

Enjoy!

Nels

[grenamc]

I was going to start a new post, but I figured I would just add to this.  I am looking for a first decent TT.  I have a Sony I got in HS and it really is not too great.  I don't have a very large collection, in part because neither of my parents were collectors.  So I would like to start with something fairly nice/inexpensive so that I can get my feet wet and also start really building the collection.  I am well aware of the Technics SL-12XX DD models and I certainly have it on the list as a possibility.  Some others I have seen on the eBay/Audiogon that kind of have me interested:

1) Micro Seiki DD-40.  I am a sucker for nice wood veneers, and I have read up enough on Teac's TT name to know these are/were fairly well regarded.  http://cgi.ebay.com/MICRO-SEIKI-DD-40-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE-TOP-MINT_W0QQitemZ170299997126QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item170299997126&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

2) Kenwood KD-770D.  I have not been able to find much info on this one, although the seller certainly has been pleased. http://cgi.ebay.com/Kenwood-KD-770D-Top-line-Turntable-Excellent_W0QQitemZ290295240843QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTurntables?hash=item290295240843&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

3) Denon DP-60L.  I have read some good things about this one as well.  http://cgi.ebay.com/DENON-DP-60L-SERVO-CONTROLLED-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE_W0QQitemZ300291383954QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTurntables?hash=item300291383954&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

And, of course, I am not against a belt-drive if a good one can be had for around the same money.  I know one thing, I wish I had gotten this bug about 6 years ago when some of these tables were selling for 50 bucks.  C'est la vie!

-Michael

[grenamc]

I am adding one to the bunch, because there has been some serious JVC talk lately.  I cannot find much info on this one, but it sure is purty.  A bit high priced, but at 35 lbs, it's a pretty serious piece of TT too, I would think.

4) JVC QL-A75.  http://cgi.ebay.com/High-End-JVC-QL-A75-Turntable-MINT-with-Box_W0QQitemZ220357131407QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTurntables?hash=item220357131407&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

-Michael

[TheChairGuy]

Michael,

If you have not filled your hollow-bodied old Sony TT up with modeling clay inside...you don't yet know what it is capable of.

Of course, if you have a few $$ hundred burning in your pocket, you can tray another TT 

John

[Listens2tubes]

Michael,

If you have not filled your hollow-bodied old Sony TT up with modeling clay inside...you don't yet know what it is capable of.

Of course, if you have a few $$ hundred burning in your pocket, you can tray another TT 

John

I've been meaning to start a thread about the Technics SL-D1 I found in the garbage which I clayed and mounted my old Grado/Longhorn. I removed the captive interconnect and mounted a pair of RCA jacks on the back connected to the tonearm wires. I use this as a traveling table for headphone meets. I am amazed at how well this table performs. Next I'll retofit a SL1200 arm I was given. 

You can see some pix here http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/new-york-city-meet-12-13-08-a-390853/index3.html It was the only TT there.

[grenamc]

I'll be honest, gents. My Sony was purchased for me in the mid-late 90s and is entirely plastic, so I assumed it wouldn't be worth putting much more into. But I could certainly try. I will also say I would like my vinyl to equal my MW Transporter in all but ease of use. I think that can probably be done fairly inexpensively, but I have doubted I could pull it off with the plastic deck. I am a total newb, so that's why I came here first. I will look into modelling clay. Unless I find something I feel I just can't pass up.

-Michael

[TheChairGuy]

5-8 lbs of non-hardening modeling clay is all you need to fill your Sony up

That investment of $20-$30 will likely be quite revelatory  for you.  You'll help to suffocate rumble with added mass...and reduce feedback, as well. The two effects, once largely removed by the application of the clay, will very effectively improve your Sony's sonics.

Making sure you have your deck on a solid surface (I have found a 3.5" thick maple base is generally best....but, others use birch, oak, granite or other bases) and bypassing the incredibly ineffective stock feet for brass toes, roller balls, wood blocks, cork/rubber appliance footers or something else (go experiment to taste) will get you further down the line in sonics.

Make sure you change out the stock rubber mat for something that provides a better interfaces with your records (remarkably important benefits).  A lot of us use Herbie's Way Excellent turntable mat to good effect.

The clay is $30, the maple base and brass footers can be found for $100.00 and the Herbie's mat is $70.  For $200, you'll probably end up with a deck that plays as well in many ways as a $1000.00 one - negating, at least for the meantime, your need to buy a pricier table

Eventually, the upgrade bug might bite you and your move up a notch or two...all but the clay can be carried over (usually effectively) to any new deck you buy, so it's really a long-term, cost effective move to do it in the end.

John

[Miney]

Michael - I drank John's plasti-clay kool-aid last fall and can back these claims up 10000000%.  I stuffed an old Technics table and am reaping the rewards every day.   

Here's a thread describing my experience, and some pics.