[ted_b]

As I see it from afar, Rydenfan and George were seeing this thread get hijacked (in part from their own discussions), far away from the review discussion, and thought it was a hijack worth splitting off and fixing.  That, to me, is the proper approach.  I've seen it done here many times.  It's courteous to the OP (especially when it's his Circle) and doesn't allow the mob to hijack further.  Not sure why the issues with it, really.

[arthurs]

Better put than my attempt Ted.  I thought they were coming from a decent place, that said it is Jeff's circle and he can respond as he sees fit.....not sure why Satfrat is all over it playing sheriff though....

[rydenfan]

Thanks guys  As stated, I really had the best of intentions. I felt like we had strayed far from the topic of reviewing acoustic panels and I was trying to be courteous to this circle. I thought the topic had simply morphed into a conversation better suited for a different section of the forum and wanted other's opinions. I guess it did not come across that way to some. I think at this point it is clear where I was coming from and that most see it that way; probably best just to leave it alone.

[satfrat]

Since a certain AC member wanted to keep the original thread in their forum rather than move it to here, I thought I would re-post it over here. There has been a lot of discussion lately on the topic of Acoustic Panels with a decorative theme or covering to them. I thought I would add a poll as well to help illustrate things. I am a believer that it would be of benefit to have acoustic panels with this type of covering and am curious on everyone else's opinion.

My goodness you guys are childish.  If you want to criticize me, do it by name, I don't care. 

I was speaking up for Jeff and siding with him, in Jeff's circle. Yes I'm opinionated, sorry if I'm the only one one who see things Jeff's way in his Circle.

Jeff, as I said in a PM, feel free to trash all my crap, that you do with the rest is up to you. 



Cheers,
Robin

[Glenn Kuras]

OK GUYS,

In so many ways I HATE YOU FOR PUSHING ME, but then again I HAVE TO THANK YOU ALSO. Your all like my personal trainer at the gym.

So give me some feed back before I move forward. What would you think of 3 GIK Elites across your back wall or front wall that look like this? Not sure on pricing but it could be around $400 per panel.



Glenn

[sts9fan]

Glen

Looks cool.  Can I ask about the printing?  How is it done?  What do you do to not clog the fabric?  I have some panels that MUST be treated and want options.  I do have access to a large format printer.  Plus if this works I can buy more!!!

Kris

P.S. 
This thread is gold for SO many reasons.

[Mariusz]

$1000 for 3.
Or
$999

[bmckenney]

I think the cost is too high.  What about making this simpler.  Add an option to emboss (or whatever technique makes sense) very simple graphics on to the fabric.  Graphics like silhouettes or monotone solids of musical instruments.  Maybe a few options of different instruments for classical music or jazz of rock enthusiasts.   Something tasteful but simple.  Nothing fancy or too "artistic".  Make it a $25 per panel option.

Bryan

[undertow]

I would be firmly in the camp that you cannot make too many printed "Distinct" type picture panels, and they have to be more universal prints or more organic to the environment, mostly types of abstracts, non-specific objects... More neutral colors etc...similar to example above, but a big guitar spread across several panels or something seems more suited for the local TGI fridays theme.

By the way I have purchased several GiK panels and tri traps over the years which for the price are as good as somebody could get performance and apperance wise, however I would heavily push for some better aesthetics and pay a few bucks more for sure.

[bpape]

What we're looking at is a Dye Sublimation print that will not change the acoustical properties of the cloth or plug up the weave.  That's about the only good way to do it - and unfortunately, it's not inexpensive.

For standard prints that we'd sell many of, the cost might not be as much but we're not sure yet.  Printing costs for something this size and that kind of color blend is not cheap.  Setup costs for one-off custom stuff would easily add over $100 per panel by itself. 

Bryan

[sts9fan]

What about Dye-sublimation printing do you think will differ from inkjet?  You are still adding ink to the material one just in gas form.  Both will dry similar correct?  I thought Dye-sublimation printing was more for synthetics.

[Glenn Kuras]

 

What about Dye-sublimation printing do you think will differ from inkjet?  You are still adding ink to the material one just in gas form.  Both will dry similar correct?  I thought Dye-sublimation printing was more for synthetics

From all the research I have done on this inkjet printing will work, but the quality is not as good and the cost is actually MORE. I do think over the years it could drop with the quality getting better.

[TONEPUB]

Inkjet printing is VERY expensive, per square foot.  Used to be a consultant for Roland
and a beta tester for Epson.  If you take a tour of Roland's facility in Irvine, you'll still
see some of my work up on their walls.

Just like adding premium capacitors to an amplifier, doing this kind of thing, while perhaps
making it more appealing to the mrs., will add a lot of cost.  And if we are going to make
these panels "art", how does the artist get compensated? 

I don't know any photographers or artists that are going to give their stuff away for free.

That's why Dan Wright's father in law's stuff is so expensive.  The guy is an established
fine artist.  What you're paying all the money for with those panels is compensation to
the artist. (and rightly so)

Having worked in high end fine art digital printing for years, moving to this opens up
a whole new can of worms for the acoustic treatment mfr.  Now you are becoming an
art vendor and what happens when the guy on the other end says "This doesn't look
like the picture on your website and my wife hates it because it doesn't match the couch""

Or, my 200 dollar an hour interior designer says, "can you make this a shade darker/
more green/more red"

Trust me, I've been down this path before.

I've done plenty of printing of almost every kind of material imaginable.  One of the
biggest problems with printing on fabric (inkjet or dye sub) is getting the color to pop
because you don't get the ink build up you do on a sheet of paper or canvas.

While I see the basic concept of making acoustic treatments more environment/wife
friendly, I think the can of worms being opened up is huge.

If you think your wives were grumpy when you bought a 700 dollar pair of interconnects,
wait till she wants to change the color in the living room and says "those panels will have
to go because they won't work with the new color I'm painting the living room".

Glenn, you make awesome products at a very reasonable price.....

I wish you the best of luck on this one!

[bmckenney]

Good points Jeff.  I think those patterned fabrics that GIK offers are a great way to spruce up the looks for a reasonable cost bump.  And there is also the option of going with any of the Guilford fabrics of which there are many options.  No comp to artists involved.  No expensive print production.  No concerns about finding art work that appeals to everyone.  It's really an interior decor matching decision.

Bryan

[satfrat]

Good points Jeff.  I think those patterned fabrics that GIK offers are a great way to spruce up the looks for a reasonable cost bump.  And there is also the option of going with any of the Guilford fabrics of which there are many options.  No comp to artists involved.  No expensive print production.  No concerns about finding art work that appeals to everyone.  It's really an interior decor matching decision.

Bryan

I'll have to agree with your Guilford of Maine fabric comment Bryan. I own 2 GIK Table Traps with  black GoM fabric and I do love the fabric texture in this application. I'm sure it would be ok for wall hung panels also. But it's no comparison to say what Modright had hanging in his room imho. Apples vs oranges for just me,,, taking in consideration that it's all individually subjective.


Cheers,
Robin

[Vinyl-Addict]

I don't know any photographers or artists that are going to give their stuff away for free.

Excellent point!

Having worked in high end fine art digital printing for years, moving to this opens up
a whole new can of worms for the acoustic treatment mfr.  Now you are becoming an
art vendor and what happens when the guy on the other end says "This doesn't look
like the picture on your website and my wife hates it because it doesn't match the couch""

Another excellent point!

Or, my 200 dollar an hour interior designer says, "can you make this a shade darker/
more green/more red"

And another excellent point!

If you think your wives were grumpy when you bought a 700 dollar pair of interconnects,
wait till she wants to change the color in the living room and says "those panels will have
to go because they won't work with the new color I'm painting the living room".

Yet another excellent point!

What about fading? How will the fabric hold up over time. Will it sag, lift, or become brittle?
As Jeff said, best of luck. 

[TONEPUB]

Most inkjet stuff being printed today will last over 100 years on paper,
but not sure on fabric.  Time to call my buddies at Roland and see what
kind of longevity data they have.

Just like any piece of artwork, if you put these babies anywhere near
sunlight, they will fade and I guarantee they will fade unevenly.

When I was doing a lot of fine art printing and living in phoenix, we
had test samples on the back porch, just baking in the direct AZ sun
every day...

I never had any luck with sagging or otherwise, but did not print enough
on fabric to make a solid judgement.  Usually, that stuff got used at
art and trade shows for a season and then discarded.

[sts9fan]

As far as the artiist thing goes there are 1000 ways to get around this ethically of course.  First you could use out of copyright classic art.  Second you could just go take some photos outside.  Some nice macros of flowers or something.  Third family photos etc.  These do not need to be one of a kind art to be high WAF.
As far as fading goes the GIK panels are just stapled in the back.  Not too hard to replace imho.  Finally what do people think of directly painting on the surface with a low viscosity paint or ink?  Personally I would like to put my own art onto a panel. 

Kris

[mattyturner]

That's what my wife said... 'Can i paint on it?'

Could definitely be a fun project to try your own, you basically have a stretched canvas waiting for your masterpiece!

[TONEPUB]

.... And this is why I'm so happy I'm not in the fine art business any more.

I think you see what a nightmare this is for a manufacturer. Once again it's
just like owning a photo lab, I can just see the potential for a HUGE ulcer with
everyone sending in their favorite photos to be printed on fabric for wall treatments.

Half of the professional photographers I've worked with over the years couldn't
prepare digital files for large format output, so the nightmare of dealing with
everyone elses stuff is unbelievable.

Ugh!