[Wayner]

Good job wolfy. I got almost every Kraftwerk album. I had no idea they are considered so high up the totem pole. I also really like Devo and I doubt the world really understands them or appreciates them.

Wayner

[lonewolfny42]

I also really like Devo and I doubt the world really understands them or appreciates them.

For them....you need an Energy Dome...

       

Mine is in my avatar....its red, white, and blue.

[TF1216]

Where does Blondie's "Rapture" fall in the timeline of rap history?

[emac]

I will say that all music tends to influence other genre. As an example, classical music has found its foundation in many "art rock" type bands like Yes, Pink Floyd, etc. Blues music has a blend of influences. Cajun music probably is a mixture of folk, jazz, rock, country, old time (polka) and god knows what else. Lots of this kind of music has a rich history. It's from a blend of cultures and races. Perhaps I just don't feel the grass-roots of rap. It's too urban for me and it seems devoid of any other cultural blends or influences. Perhaps, as some of you pointed out, it created itself. I'm not going to deny that it doesn't have a big following, but I'm not one of them. Perhaps as time moves forward, it will progress into something more appealing to me. The one real problem I do have is musicianship. Is there any? the music just doesn't seem to have any soul to it. Just sounds like endless midi-loops.

Electronica music I consider to be a child of bands like Depesche Mode and Thomas Dolby. Am I wrong on this? This kind of music I can enjoy because it has obeyed some of the rules of music, with rhythm, a melody, counter melody and all that other stuff that has been the definition of music (rhythm, melody and harmony by Webster's definition).

Wayner

A lot of hip hop is the endless midi-loops that you're describing.  Many of the albums I listed in my 1st post in this thread are not like this.  K-Os's Joyful Rebellion uses good instrumentation and progresses as traditional songs do.  The Cunninlynguists have a strong Southern soul influence to them.  So, musical hip hop is out there, but it's not what people usually hear.  It's been dumbed down for the mainstream masses and clubs.  

And I'm not going to get on anyone's case about this since there's likely no way of knowing, but please, please, please don't call electronic music electronica.  That's a really crumby term that was given to electronic music back in the early 90's when it was supposed to become "The Next Big Thing", which many of us didn't want it to be in the first place.  It's not what people who actually listen to the music call it.  Or, you can call it all techno (though that's not technically accurate since that's a specific genre).  Whatever you want.  Just not electronica.  

Anyway, rant over.  Electronic music comes from pioneers like Kraftwerk and Eno who pushed the envelop of what could be done w/ electronic instruments.  By the 1980's, it incorporated elements of 1970's and early 1980's club music and started to become a genre.  Two of the areas pioneering the new sound were Chicago (house music) and Detroit (techno).   It then shifted over to Europe, where they dropped the vocals and it became acid house.  From there, there were the early free rave parties, and the rest is history.  And as electronic music developed the different sub-genres started to experiment w/ different tempos.  Some slowed it down into "trip-hop" (another crumby term) and ambient.  Others pushed the speeds, which became hardcore and jungle (which is drum n bass now-a-days).  

I'd consider Depeche Mode to be more of a contemporary to the early pioneers of house and techno that started to combine electronic instrumentation and experimentation with elements of rock and New Wave.  

[PhilNYC]

Anyway, rant over.  Electronic music comes from pioneers like Kraftwerk and Eno who pushed the envelop of what could be done w/ electronic instruments.  By the 1980's, it incorporated elements of 1970's and early 1980's club music and started to become a genre.  Two of the areas pioneering the new sound were Chicago (house music) and Detroit (techno).   It then shifted over to Europe, where they dropped the vocals and it became acid house.  From there, there were the early free rave parties, and the rest is history.  And as electronic music developed the different sub-genres started to experiment w/ different tempos.  Some slowed it down into "trip-hop" (another crumby term) and ambient.  Others pushed the speeds, which became hardcore and jungle (which is drum n bass now-a-days).  

Here is the real father of electronic music:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgard_Var%C3%A8se

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9mg4KHqRPw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TStutMsLX2s&feature=related

[lonewolfny42]

Where does Blondie's "Rapture" fall in the timeline of rap history?

Paul..."Rapture" was a combination of New Wave pop, funk, jazz and rap music, with the rap section forming an extended coda. While it was not the first single involving rap to be successful, it was the first to top the charts. The Sugarhill Gang's 1979 hit "Rapper's Delight", a straightforward rap track also based on Chic's "Good Times", and obviously also an inspiration for "Rapture", reached #36 on the U.S. Hot 100 chart, and went gold. Kurtis Blow's "The Breaks" was released in 1980, and became the second rap single to be certified gold. The lyrics of "Rapture" included references to hip-hop pioneers Fab Five Freddy and Grandmaster Flash.

Here's....Debbie.....

Here's ....the Sugar Hill Gang...

[TF1216]

Sometimes artists write truly emotional and heartfelt lyrics such as in Xzibit' "Missin' U" and 2Pac's "Dear Mama".
2Pac's lyrics have been taught in some west coast Universities, I believe.  I am unaware of any other artist who has that kind reach into their social background where their music was the voice for so many.  I thought that was kind of neat.

[TF1216]

Great info.  Thanks!

[lonewolfny42]

Off topic....
Got me thinking about getting a Cd copy of "Switched-On Bach"...by Walter Carlos....(I have it on vinyl)

Walter is now Wendy Carlos..... ...a little nip...and a little tuck...ouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-On_Bach

[DaveC113]

I don't like most hip hop or rap... but please try to understand there are sub-genres and associating gangsta-rap with all of hip hop is like saying rock is all the same... it shows a level of ignorance that makes all other comments or opinions meaningless to those who know better. That said, there is a lot of quality hip hop that shows a lot of creativity and is good music. Some of my favorite are:

Deltron 3030... a spinoff album by Del tha Funky Homosapien that is a sci-fi hip hop album, best listened to in it's entirety. It is really good.

Sharpshooters... jazz hip-hop fusion. Choked Up is a very good album.

Beastie Boys... a lot of their work is good, especially Check Your Head.

The Roots... a bit dark, but very good. Game Theory is a great album. 

Us3... somewhat cheezy jazz fusion and not all of the MC'ing is good, but some tunes work well. Flip Fantasia is their one hit wonder.

[Mightyburner]

I'm sure you will all hate me but there isn't even one song that would change my mind. I think the "music" has many problems one being the culture it crawled out of.
Wayner

     
I don't have have any problems with the post as there are several genres of music I don't like but this is a little too close for comfort for me as I came out of that so called culture.  I have no doubt about what you were trying to say BUT it could be misinterpreted and deemed as offensive.  Easily.  Real easy. 

I want to make myself clear, I'm not accusing anyone of anything and I believe as a society we've gone a little over board on the whole Politically Correct thing but,,,,Daang!  In the future, we all should be a little selective in our choice of words when we are attempting to make a passionate point.  I think saying "I hate rap" and offering your reasons why would have sufficed.

Just my $02.

[Len_Dreyer]

RAP artists.... http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_rap-artists.html

I did think M.C. Hammer had talent....
...................better than "ice,ice, baby" Vanilla Ice. 

Time line....starts at 1970 .... http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_rap-timeline1.html

I don't know, I think rap had it's start out of folk music. Think "Talking Blues". 

From Wikipedia:

Talking blues is a sub genre of the blues music genre. It is characterised by rhythmic speech or near-speech where the melody is free, but the rhythm is strict. The genre or technique developed in the blues in the early 20th century from influences including African music, English folk song, and the music-hall stage. Just having fun. 

Len

[SET Man]

Hey!

   Is Rap/Hip-Hop music? Well, that's depend on who you ask.

   To me Rap/Hip-Hop is more like a poetry recital accompanied by music.

   I don't think there are many Rappers that have a great vocal range that could sing what we would call traditional song/music. Well, can Missy Elliot sing like Ella? Probably not.

   Still, I have no problem with Rap/Hip-Hop and I don't hate it. Well, except the so called "Gangster Rap" type.

  My younger brother is a fan of Rap/Hip-Hop. So naturally I've been listening to some with my brother. Sadly he is on in CA so I'm now less expose to current Rap/Hip-Hop stuff. And there are some that I like.Here are some that I could think off right now...

Slick Rick  “Children’s Story” Old school Rap. Actually the whole album is pretty funny.

Biz Markie “Just A Friend”

Run DMC “It’s Like That”, “Walk this way” Well, I guess maybe people knwo Run DMC.

MC Hammer “You can’t touch this” Considered to be soft Rap by many hardcore Rapper but hey, it was fun.

Fugees “Killing me Softly” A great remake.

The Game ft. 50 Cent “Hate it or love it” I really like this and even have it on vinyl. There are another tracks that I like on the album also.

Sir Mix-A-Lot “Baby Got Back” Yup, who can forget this. C'mon brother you are in denied on this...

Eminen “Stan” Crazy story line with great dub. And yes there is the "The Real Slim Shady"

Jay-Z “Big Pimpin’” “Dirt off your shoulder” My bro is a huge fan of Jay-Z. So, I've heard a lot of his stuffs. There are a few more that I like from Jay-Z. And the one that he collab with Linkin Park "Collision Course" is great.

Us3 “cantaloupe (Flip Fantasia)”  Great Jazz/Rap fusion that never really took off.

   Well, there you have it. A few Rap/Hip-Hop that I like. BTW... I'm still hunting a few of these down on vinyl LP.

Take care,
Buddy

[jon_010101]

The two genres I've really been expanding into lately are hip-hop and country.  I've been starting a buying rampage of 1950s-60s country western, and 80s-90s rap.  Rap actually shares some similar themes with classic country western - alienation, gunfights, being a badass, drinkin'.    Of course, there's a lot of other stuff out there, too...

What I don't care for is the modern "republican" country music - twangy, overproduced, corny.  Same goes for the mass produced, artless, rap music you often hear.  The "pop" variants of any genre don't appeal to connoisseurs.  

[bunnyma357]

It is odd how no one gets outraged over Bobby Darin singing songs about a guy who stabs people to death, or Johnny Cash singing about shooting somebody just to watch them die, but people have trouble with similar story songs performed by rappers.

Jim C

[jon_010101]

bunnyma357, I couldn't agree more!

ALso.... For those who underestimate the creativity and diversity of rap lyrics, I want to recommend Canibus... just found this moderately hilarious youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXh_LlqETRM   

[Watson]

One of the nice things about rap is that you can generally get all the new stuff on vinyl. You have to be a little careful about buying used vinyl because DJs may have scratched it up, but in some ways that's part of the charm.

I'd vote for Snoop Dogg's album "Tha Last Meal", which yes, I do have on vinyl. It's a guilty pleasure.

[nathanm]

Nelly "Hot In Here" - The most laugh-out-loud funny rap song I have ever heard.  It's a cover AFAIK, but only this version is funny with the female chorus.  I laughed so hard I had tears running down my face.

"Still" Geto Boys - You know it: the printer destruction song from Office Space.  How can you not like this one?  It's simultaneously heavy and humorous at the same time.

Not that these tunes will convert anyone, but I just wanted to point out that there's lots of unintentional humor to be found in music you normally dislike.  Rap is often loaded with unvarnished, on-the-nose sexual references, which are quite hilarious.

[doug s.]

i really do not like hip-hop.  and, i listen to quite a bit of it, the progressive underground style, thanks to wpfw, 89.3, now showcasing it mon-thru-fri every evening from 10-11pm, on their "decipher" show.  wpfw can cite this as a reason why i no longer am a financial supporter of theirs, after donating money to them for about 15 years.  while i usually use this hour to listen to winyl, cd, or jazz on another local fm station, occasionally i listen to it, usually on thursdays, as the "soul controllers" thursday edition of the decipher show has the most likely chance of playing anything remotely resembling music.  but, i have no idea who any of the artists are, and i have never had any desire to take note, to purchase anything, even on the rare occasions i actually enjoy any of it.  yust way too much garbage to have to wade thru to get to the music.  for those of you who can bother to wade thru it all to get the gems, more power to you! 

doug s.

ps - i have seen michael franti twice; i think he's good.  but, i wouldn't call that hip-hop.  so, mebbe i think some hip-hop is ok? 

[Hicks]

As far as history goes the first hip hop DJ, Kool Herc, got the idea after traveling to Jamaica and seeing the reggae sound systems and DJs.  Reggae itself has had a huge influence on both rap/hip hop and electronic music in general.

It seems to me that hip hop has really degraded over the past few years with the onset of "ringtone" rap and a m.o. of just trying to cash in without any real artistry.  A couple of groups that are still putting out great music are The Roots, People Under the Stairs, Ugly Duckling, Madlib, MF Doom and a couple of others that aren't springing to mind immediately.