[IanATC]

ATC
[obvious from my moniker]   I like them because of the detail, impact, musicality, transparency and neutrality they give me for a relatively affordable price.  Much cheaper in UK than USA. Plain looking, unassuming, world-class reference monitors.

Classic KEF:
The Kent Engineering Foundry did a lot of R&D [for real]  to pioneer some top notch drivers back in the 70’s.  They were using computers to help designs before it was cool.  The KEF 103.3 and 104.2 stand TODAY as excellent speakers

Proac:
Gorgeous looking.  Slightly coloured mid band, but musical and airy as all get out.

Sonus Faber:
Like Proac, not the most informative speakers, but no matter which model you buy, be prepared to hear MUSIC.  They caress notes, and articulate them wonderfully.

Vandersteen:
 very liquid, transparent and forgiving.  Kind of like comfort food [as reviews suggest.  They could use some midbass impact, but other than that, you can listen ALL DAY long and love them…they sound like music to me.

Acoustic Energy:  
These don’t cost much.  They do not give you a hint that they are giant killers.  They only lack the fine resolution of the big boys, but they are absolutely brilliant for the money!

B&W 800 Signatures:
damned if I can afford them, they are absolutely beautiful and very refined.

PMC:  
Very informative, and possess very deep bass.  These are quite nice by any measure, save plain looking like ATC.

Totem:  
Beautifully musical.  The one, Arro and Hawk are my favourite models in the lineup.  Outstanding value from Canada. The Hawk are wonderfully transparent and musical. You will wonder how such small speakers can sound so big.

Avalon:
These are knockout good looking, and very musical and articulate.  My favourite are probably the Eidolon ceramic model, followed by the Opus.  I cannot afford either…damn it.  

Yamaha NS-1000m:  The Beryllium mid and tweeter are amazing!  They are smooth, detailed and musical.  Maybe the only Japanese speaker I like…a treat to listen to.

As you can see, I like informative, musical, transparent speaker that draw you into the music with articulation, and make you listen for hours.  I have not heard everything, and I know there are more.  If you have a personal fave…please post, and describe it.

[Tonto Yoder]

A minor quibble--

the name "KEF" doesn't come from any acronym involving electronics (as one would logically expect).  

http://www.kef.com/history/Hist1960.htm

"KEF was founded in 1961 by an electrical engineer named Raymond Cooke in a Nissen Hut on the premises of a metal working operation called Kent Engineering & Foundry (hence KEF), on the banks of the River Medway, near Maidstone in Kent. "

[IanATC]

Incoherent babbling replaced by this text.  Ignore this post.

[Tonto Yoder]

[IanATC]

Disreguard previous "KEF"  comments.  I have had a few...and that was babbling.  You are right.  I am going to sleep it off.
Cheers...

[DVV]

ATC
[obvious from my moniker]   I like them because of the detail, impact, musicality, transparency and neutrality they give me for a relatively affordable price.  Much cheaper in UK than USA. Plain looking, unassuming, world-class reference monitors.

Classic KEF:
The Kent Electronics Foundry did a lot of R&D [for real]  to pioneer some top notch drivers back in the 70’s.  They were using computers to help designs before it was cool.  The KEF 103.3 and 104.2 stand TODAY as excellent speakers

 ...

B&W a little too restrained for my liking - I am purposely avoiding the word "lazy" and the word "slow".

JMLab (French) speakers exact opposite - a little too bright, but fast.

Another French brand, Cabasse, makes some outstanding speakers, although they tend to lag a little on focus sometimes. But there's passion in them.

Not too well known outside Germany, T&A, a German brand, make fine speakers in addition to fine electronics. Especially their digital speakers - tall, slim, precise, coherent but perhaps a little on the cold side.

I would never buy a speaker without first investigating what JBL has to say in that price bracket. Their studio monitors, big as in BIG, are easily the best loudspeakers I have ever heard - but don't ask for the price, and if you hear it, be advised it does not include the kind of big room you need to have for them. On the other hand, their immortal 4312 monitor was not just the original party animal, it practically invented parties and was affordable.

Avoiding my own speakers here - the company which made them is no longer active, although I have heard rumours they may be available again. These are my own 1041 monitors, for which I wrote the design brief, but they were actually developed by a good friend of mine, and then refined (tuned) by something like 20 of us sitting in and arguing about what should be done for 5-6 months.

They cost me just under $1.5K for a pair locally, meaning they would cost just below $2K shipped to the US, including customs. I have yet to hear anything in the $5K class which will better them easily - some will come awful close, and decisions may need to be made on purely personal taste, but they were and are killers for the money.

Cheers,
DVV

[audioengr]

I use the KEF 104/2 for my reference speaker.  Highly modified of course.  Once modded, it is extremely dynamic and the bass tightens nicely.  No real need for a subwoofer.  Very lifelike.  As always, the sweet-spot is two people wide at most.  However, it sounds almost as nice standing-up as sitting.  I have the ones with single binding posts - these are the best.

[IanATC]

B&W a little too restrained for my liking - I am purposely avoiding the word "lazy" and the word "slow".
  ***I'd second that.  The big N805 seems to have been voiced for classical.  But the bass is too slow and ponderous to do anything else.  The 802 is punchier, but again, I do NOT like B&W.  I recently had the [misfortune?] opportunity to listen to the cdm-9nt and the 703/704.  I hated them all!  It was that Godaweful cheap tweeter!

JMLab (French) speakers exact opposite - a little too bright, but fast.
   **The JM labs elektra I heard did not impress.  The treble was forward, hard and the mids did not keep up.  Too much money for this much of a mess. I was completly disappointed compared to the glowing reviews.  

Another French brand, Cabasse, makes some outstanding speakers, although they tend to lag a little on focus sometimes. But there's passion in them.
  ** I have not heard them, but would like to.  In general, except for JM labs, the French designs I have heard favour the Audax drivers and a soft sound. A bit too soft for me.

Not too well known outside Germany, T&A, a German brand, make fine speakers in addition to fine electronics. Especially their digital speakers - tall, slim, precise, coherent but ...
  ** I have not heard of those just magnat [ugh]  and Elac.

[DVV]

The JMLab speakers generally take much longer to settle in and gain proper balance than is usual; if we assume most speakers get down to it after say a month, at 8 hours a day, JMLab speakers will need 2-3 months. But thereafter, they will turn a trick or two. My point is, the Electra you heard may not have been worked in properly, the comments you made are fairly typical of their products without settling them in.

In the big speaker/price class, frankly I'd much rather own a pair of JMLab Utopias than corresponding B&W speakers.

German company Magnat has been around since the early 70-ies and at one time, did produce very creditable speakers. Then they missed a turn or two, fell to some ill luck, and are now making a comeback in the cheap speaker sector, however under a different ownership scheme. Today, all that remains of the old company is the name and the bulldog.

Elac did all that, but completed it some years ago. They came back with their JET tweeters and turned out some really nice designs - unfortunately, as most things from Germany these days, their price is rather stiff.

Your own ATC is an unusual example of a very solid company, which has been using the same design principles for many years now, unwaveringly, and has managed to make improvements on every turn (of generations). Billy Wood knows what's it all about, that's for sure.

For all that, somehow the glory has left the speaker field. It's just hard to impress people these days, and in all honesty, I've not heard a truly impressive speaker for many years now. By "impressive", I mean speakers which I could sit down to listen to and be surprised at the overall quality of what comes out, using known electronics and source material.

For example, in the mid-70ies, Philips came along with their Motional Feedback principle of active speakers. Philips, the toaster maker, produced what was then a stunning speaker in most respects, not least the fact that it was a triamped box, with everything inside the box itself. And the controls it offered really allowed those speakers to be married to virtually any environment. I was skinned in those days, and couldn't afford them, but I regret that to this day. Sort of like early active ATC designs.

Cheers,
DVV

[singhal]

I tend to distrust any analysis which involves a personally owned speaker as being the clear best speaker of the group without  any mentionable flaws

I am not speaking about the inital post, which I thought was very interesting.  On that note,  I liked how this thread was started as a positive thread about our favorite speakers. Didn't last long I see

[IanATC]

I tend to distrust any analysis which involves a personally owned speaker as being the clear best speaker of the group without  any mentionable flaws

I am not speaking about the inital post, which I thought was very interesting.  On that note,  I liked how this thread was started as a positive thread about our favorite speakers. Didn't last long I see

I simply stated my personal preferences.  All speakers have flaws at any price.  I find it unforgivable when a 4k+ speaker has glaring flaws.  The only review I trust-measurements be damned- is as I stated:  If I can listen to the stereo all day long.  

This isn't exactly a flame war, IMO it did not really deteriorate that badly.

[singhal]

I simply stated my personal preferences.  All speakers have flaws at any price.  I find it unforgivable when a 4k+ speaker has glaring flaws.  The only review I trust-measurements be damned- is as I stated:  If I can listen to the stereo all day long.  

This isn't exactly a flame war, IMO it did not really deteriorate that badly.

I wasn't speaking of your post only.  Comments like "lazy" are asking for more flames.  If DVV was purposely avoiding it, why did he say it? That and things like 'Godaweful cheap tweeter' are invites for BS, stuff I am tired of.

And if I had a dime for every post where the really perfect speaker was the one that individual owns without any serious flaws ...  

Even my comments are negative as a result of this schtuff.  Ugh.  The whole circle of 'why my speaker is the best and/or the things that suck about other speakers' gets old after a while.  Not everyone needs that, but it seems they are few.

BTW I own none of the speakers that have been discussed so I have no personal axe to grind.

  Probably I should have just passed this thread if I didn't like it, instead of making the comments I did.  Sorry for that.  It just that I thought this thread could have been different.

I'm sorry again if I have made a personal attack, if so it's not appropriate for me to do so.

That's all I'll say here.

[IanATC]

That and things like 'Godaweful cheap tweeter' are invites for BS, stuff I am tired of.
Even my comments are negative as a result of this schtuff.  Ugh.  The whole circle of 'why my speaker is the best and/or the things that s ...

The B&W 703 and cdm-9nt are well over 2k a pair.  That tweeter is less impressive than a $30 Vifa aluminum unit. It sounds really bad to me.  I can't stand it and it does stand out like a sore thumb.

It is understandable that some people have touted their speakers as flawless.  My pet peeve are vendors disguising posts as "help"  and then coming up with absurd lies like "Interconnects under $500 are no good"
  That's a personal attack on everyone that enjoys the sound of their system with sub $500 Ic's.  Calling them all deaf or something to that effect.

My take is this, and I will be honest about it.  I do not care for horn speakers of any kind.  I do not care for fullrange speakers.  I do not like most B&W [save for some nautilis and signiture range]  and there are others.  My choice represents my personal perference.  Not once will I dare say anything is flawless. Additionally, I am sorry if some folks dearly love the speakers I don't care for.  My preference does not indicate they are flawed per se; it indicates the manner in which they present the sound is not appealing to me. It does not infer denegration to owners of those products. No matter what you spend, or what you buy, someone will hate it.  The best way to win this game is to buy what you like and ignore the reviews.

[nathanm]

The term "flaw" should imply an objective wrong of the speaker, as in something is broken - there's a dent in the tweeter or the voice coil is audibly rubbing, the cabinet is cracked or something.  A very obvious fault.  When you get into subjective feelings about what particular frequency balance a person prefers I don't think that can be attributed to "flaws".  More like "attributes I dislike".  I wouldn't call a stand monitor which cannot properly convey a real life kick drum to be 'flawed' because obvious it is not designed to do such things.

I'm still looking for my favorite speakers!  So far Tannoy dual concentrics have floated my boat the most.  If I were to say any speakers were truly "flawed" I'd have to point the finger at "full range" whizzered drivers.  If the goal of hifi is realistic sound reproduction these suckers fail miserably. "I'm a speaker!" they seem to say.  I can almost SEE the "Ray Of Treble" coming off these things.  I think I could position mirrors and bounce the treble into another room if I wanted.  So for my tastes I'd say any speaker with a very narrow focus is "flawed", or more accurately - "they possess a sonic attribute which I don't like".  Real world sound doesn't usually spray out in a hypercardioid pattern.

[DVV]

I wasn't speaking of your post only.  Comments like "lazy" are asking for more flames.  If DVV was purposely avoiding it, why did he say it? That and things like 'Godaweful cheap tweeter' are invites for BS, stuff I am tired of.

And if I had a dime for every post where the really perfect speaker was the one that individual owns without any serious flaws ...  

Even my comments are negative as a result of this schtuff.  Ugh.  The whole circle of 'why my speaker is the best and/or the things that s ...

Which speakers do I,  DVV, own, pray tell?

I looked over the mail and couldn't find my mentioning my own speakers anywhere.

As for my comment "lazy", let me rephrase that - when comparing some JBL speakers to some B&W speakers playing fast programmes (e.g. Vangelis' "Metallic Rain"), I have the impression that JBL jumps to it like a 25 year old athlete, while B&W goes about it like a 50 year old gentleman.

I am not saying JBL is the better of the two, just that I prefer JBL's approach, even if I am aware it will glide over some finer inner detail which it should not do in absolute terms. B&W will render such details  well, but will not be able to replicate JBL's pace and tempo, and some of the urgency in the music, some attack, will be lost as it will be slowed down.

I suggest you try listening for the almighty crashing in of everything in the studio about 1.5 minutes into the piece. Fast electronic instruments, coming in with a fortissimo will tax any speaker, some more than others, each and every one differently from all others. My preference lies with the JBL because I like fast attack times and feel B&W leaves me wanting in that department.

No doubt those listening to classical music will probably totally disagree with me. The above are 100% my own subjective views, and have nothing to do with absolute truth.

Ian's ATC in my view sits in between JBL and B&W, hitting a very happy and well chosen middle ground. As do some Cabasse speakers, and some T&A speakers.

Cheers,
DVV

[IanATC]

The term "flaw" should imply an objective wrong of the speaker, as in something is broken - there's a dent in the tweeter or the voice coil is audibly rubbing, the cabinet is cracked or something.  A very obvious fault.  When you get into subjective feelings about what particular frequency balance a person prefers I don't think that can be attributed to "flaws".  More like "attributes I dislike".  I wouldn't call a stand monitor which cannot properly convey a real life kick drum to be 'flawed' because obvio ...

I agree totally.  I recently had this "Oh you gotta hear these babies"  audition of some Daniel's audio [Chicago usa IIRC]  Mud puppies.  They are slim floorstanders with what appears to be a single Dynaudio woofer.

They sounded like midrange to me...just midrange.  They fell apart on complex music.  Must be that doppler distortion!  They were NOT revealing, it was like a niche "special audio effects"  speaker.  The same opinion goes for all the lowther, loth-x, beauhorn and other whizzers I have listened to.  I can't stand them.

They have REALLY prominent ATTRIBUTES that I completely dislike.

[IanATC]

Which speakers do I,  DVV, own, pray tell?


I am not saying JBL is the better of the two, just that I prefer JBL's approach, even if I a ...

I'd agree that ATC sits between them except for the fact ATC sounds faster, more neutral, transparent and revealing than either JBL or B&W.
That is of course, since I have only heard:
L-100
L-80/100T
4312A
l250t

I have not heard the K-2 yet, but it better be fast, transparent and revealing for 10,000 quid.

[Hantra]

I am sure to get sneers for this, but if you guys have not heard the new Wilsons, you need to.  I have yet to hear the WP7, but the Sophias are amazing.  They have neutrality, but also emotion, which is what I like about my Piegas.  I am not sure I would trade my Piegas for the Sophia, but I would love to hear them back to back.  I am sure they would have more bass then mine.  

IMO, these are a departure from the Wilson of old.

[JoshK]

i'd agree that my quick listen to the Sophia's also led me to believe that the Sophia's are a step above the WP6.X that I heard before.

[audiojerry]

As you can see, I like informative, musical, transparent speaker that draw you into the music with articulation, and make you listen for hours.

Well, I like un-informative, unmusical, veiled speakers that repel me from the music with no articulation, which I never listen to.    
just having some fun...

Honestly, I don't know why anyone should get rankled about anything in this thread. It just seems like another well-intended attempt to strike up a little discussion about our favorite hobby - no different than discussing favorite cars or favorite babes.

As for speakers, I keep changing my favorite. I try to keep an open mind, and I'm always willing to listen and even re-visit speakers or components that I didn't care for in the past. I never cared much for Dynaudio, but when they created their 25th Anniversary Special monitors with the latest version of their Esotar tweeter, I gave Dynaudio another try. Now it's my favorite. I still wouldn't recommend any other model to anyone, though. I'm expecting to receive a new brand of speaker, SP Tech Timepiece 2.0 soon, which I will be auditioning. Loyal I am not