[WGH]

Magic

[tubesforever]

I am a huge believer in the A-M systems silver electrode wire.  Double ground, annealed, 4 nines pure silver.  What is not to love. 

For inside the Clarinet and Cornet 2 I use the largest solid core with a teflon coating.

For my IC's I buy this bare and put it in an oversized teflon tube so air is the dielectric. 

For tonearms I use 36awg teflon coated,  although right now I am enjoying the Cardas tonearm wire a great deal for my projects.

I hope others will follow our example and use the A-M systems wire.  It is cost effective and sounds amazingly good.

Now if anyone knows where I can get bare 6 nines pure copper solid core wire approx 0.18 to 0.22"  I would be eternally grateful.

WGH, thanks for getting the picture up and running!  I like these Vishay stepped attenuators.  I plan to try the Dact style sometime during the year.

[Bill Epstein]

Here's yer image:

[Bobzilla]

 Bill and Wgh,

 Thanks for posting that image. I think I'm done with image posting for now.

 Jim,

 Fully agree on the A&M wire. I chose to use the teflon coated awg#27. I've read that optimally, one would want to use the smallest diameter conductor posable, depending upon frequency and current requirements. I think I first saw this in the "Pooge" series of Audio Amateur by Walt Jung and Dick Marsh and it was buried deep in some of the  "Gizmo" writings. If the wire isn't stiff enough to shape correctly, I'll form it into a Litz configuration. I did this on my previous preamp project and it was sufficient enough to get me from one planet to another.
 
Sorry ... I've loved that line since I first heard it. I'll try to avoid doing that again.

What are your thoughts on a "ground lift switch"? I've not heard of this until recently. How is this done? Pluses/Minuses? Did you take all of your input grounds individually back to the boards ground or did you take them to the star ground point on the chassis? Grounding is SO important and can be problematic and time consuming to troubleshoot.

Well that's it for today, best to all and thanks to everyone for taking the time to be involved!

Peace ... Out 

         

[tubesforever]

Well this is my take on grounding.  This is also simply my own opinion.  I respect others opinions no matter how misguided they might be 

For me, I try to explore ground loops by thinking like a signal.  If I am looping it is because I have several paths to ground and I get caught up figuring if I like a, b or c.  In fact with a difficult ground loop hum you could have multiple paths causing issues. 

I try to pick one point for the star origin.  Basically every ground is going to this point.  Next I use a heavy clean wire going from that point straight to my IEC earth ground.  I want that cartridge, tonearm, or turntable motor noise to get back to earth without first going to my board. 

Now if you have a hum you can start pulling the leads to see when the hum diminishes and when it goes away.  The hum might diminish because you removed item B, but it is still in the background.  Re-attach B and start pulling C, D, and E.  Did you find one that stopped the hum.  It can be an issue where you end up tying B and E together and not running either of these back to A because they are already finding a better pathway without direct connectivity. 

I know this get merky.  That's the way grounding issues can become an issue. 

One thing to remember.  I had a hum with my C2 and only with my SUT.  I kept thinking the SUT and the C2 were looping.  It ended up being stray fields from the big Hammond trannies.  I bought a steel box that I plan to line with Bill's excellent copper foil and build a nice EMI trap.  It may not completely solve the hum but then again it will probably be better.

I figure a pure engineer would call all this BS and I cannot disagree with them scientifically.  However I have fought enough ground loops in my day to know that if it works, don't fix it.  If it hums, then find a better pathway to ground.

Be careful what you plan to float.   There are a lot of tombstones that should read "Took too many shortcuts and I became the shortcut to ground."  Floating grounds should be a testing phase not a solution phase.

[hagtech]

Yes, I too am a fan of silver and teflon.  I also like thin conductors when possible, solid not stranded.  It depends a LOT on the type of signal to be transmitted (frequency range, current, impedance, etc.). 

I don't like ground lift switches because of the safety issues involved.  That chassis connection to Earth is there to protect against a transformer or other failure mode.  BAM!  There goes another fuse.  And yet I am perfectly fine to continue working on the problem.  We can solve hum issues without having to sacrifice safety.  Sometimes it gets pretty hard, though.  I feel your pain.

jh

[Bobzilla]

Jim,

 Grounding can, indeed be a pain.

 I've abandoned the "ground lift switch" if, for no other reason, the fact that any unsoldered connection can (will) develop resistance. Potential problems that no one needs.

 Speaking of pain ... the price of capacitors and other premium parts! With that thought in mind it has come to my attention that "Parts Connection" has a 20% off sale on a majority of their brands of film caps. I've ordered a combination of Mundorf SIO and VN caps for the Clairnet/Coronet build.

 Now if I could just settle on a chassis size, design, brand, etc. etc.

 

[Bobzilla]

 Last post was 6 Jan... Time does pass!
 Lots of things have happened since then and many of those things have had a direct impact upon the completion of this Clarinet.
 This is a shot of the board shortly after its completion. The Russian Teflon's are currently riding on the top, between the chassis and the boards ground plain. I'll get some better shots with the next series of posts.
 After so many months of involvment, I'm REALLY looking forward to hearing this!       

[tubesforever]

The Pics look nice!  I think you need some Teflon bypass caps in there....

I just spent a couple hours listening to a George Wright Signature Phono Stage in my system tonight.  A friend sent it to me for a couple of simple wiring mods for his system.

This is a 2,000 dollar phono stage.

Here is what I can say conclusively.  If you build your C2 like I did mine, you are going to hear a lot more inner detail.  Stuff sounds less homogenized with the nude vishays and the Mundorf SIO caps.

There is a lot less sibilance and I would say the Wright has an unattractive spike around 2-3khz that makes the overall sound stage seem more technicolor.  It doesn't sound grounded and real like the C2. 

Saxiphone was painful to listen to and with the C2 it sounds as natural as can be.

The C2 simply begs you to crank up the volume and the Wright says "No Mas" or my ears are bleeding already.

I have a lot more dynamics.  I kept wanting to turn down the volume so the two were playing at the same level and realized that mine was just powering well beyond what the Wright could muster up.  With volumes matched up the C2 just really sounded a lot more natural.


The Wright did one area of the sound really well.  I have to say that the upper mid bass and midrange were very good.  Mine sounded a little more thin and less fleshed out.

I like the RIAA on the Wright unit.  It had more bass, cello and viola content than mine.  This may be a tube issue or it might be that I need to experiment with more RIAA cap options.  So far I have tried the Panasonic film caps the Richard Marsh Multicaps and am using Russian K40Y9's right now. 

Hey Jim, if I alter the 0.047uf RIAA cap either up or down which one will slide the frequency response toward the upper mid bass and midrange?  Or would this be the 0.001uf cap that adjusts the overall highs?

I just want to see if I can get that same RIAA balance in the low end and mids and then I can say the C2 is PERFECT.  It is really close to that right now.   

[Bobzilla]

Tubes,
Seriously, after all the trouble you went to acquiring all of those teflon capacitors do you really think I wouldn't use them?

This is another view. I increased the standoffs by .25" to allow clearance for the "doubly insulated" teflon caps.

I'm almost done with the chassis drilling and fitting. I'm installing a .25" thick, 1"x3.75" aluminum rib running front to back. This should accomplish several things: It will separate and, to some degree, shield the front mounted power switch and associated "line level" A.C. components from the rest of the amp. It will strengthen and dampen the expansive top and bottom covers of the Lansing case, and it will add much needed support of the corner mounted power transformer. In this accompanying picture, the red heat shrink insulated object is a 4" long piece of EMT conduit.

 This .5" pipe will deliver all of the secondary conductors from the power transformer directly to the grommet protected entrance hole on the P.C. board with very little unshielded exposure to the surrounding circuitry.
 My goal with these added steps is to maintain the lack of noise that appears to be one of the main points of the Haggerman products, while still getting a more conveniently mounted power switch.

We'll see...     

[hagtech]

Hey Jim, if I alter the 0.047uf RIAA cap either up or down which one will slide the frequency response toward the upper mid bass and midrange?

This is a good cap to play with, as it can dramatically affect the sound.  It plays with bass/mid.  Everything is inverted, but off the top of my head I think increasing it's value will add some midbass and vocals. 

For changing between various EQ cuts (ffrr, columbia, etc.), play with the 1nF cap.  I had been looking into a variable EQ phono and that was the cap to change.  That affect midband and treble.  Can make a violin more earthey and warm or more piercing (the latter not being in a bad way). 

jh

[tubesforever]

Silly me, Bobzilla your build looks like a superb way to handle the front switch.  I  like what I see.  Adding height ot the top stand offs seems like a great idea.  It shrowds the tubes a little more which might be a good thing in some systems.

I know you are going to love those Teflons the first time you hear percussion.  Damn, these caps simply will knock you out of the listening seat.

I found a George Fennell LP conducting the Cleveland Wind Ensemble, Its a Telarc recording and on one of the Souza pieces I just had to crank up the music.  It sounds so good with those nude vishays.  You can hear every individual instrument on the stage in its own space.

I am starting to relax and smile and then they clobber the Bass drum and it literally knocked me out of my seat.  At that moment I realized I have never heard any phono stage at any price deliver that type of clarity, finesse and slam. 

When I take the Cornet 2 on the road everyone loves the dynamicas and the vocal clarity.  Then I plug in the Clarinet and everyone's jaw drops.  Now they hear a line stage that can equal that dynamic attack of the recorded music and still sound completely honest in terms of timbre, size, and spacial clues.and yet sound utterly can keep up with the source. 


Jim, Thanks for fleshing out the RIAA caps.  So you think trying about 0.057 would be a good first test?


I love the highs on my Cornet 2.  They are very natural and have just the right blend of splash and resonance.    Would putting a 4 pole 3 way selector switch with values of say 0.001, 0.002, and 0.003 be a good starting point.  Or is 0.003 gonna sound whacked out? 

I made a mistake on my first update, when I used a 0.01uf cap there.  When I sat back to listen it sounded like someone had taken out the tweeters. 

[Bobzilla]

 I've Finished the line level A.C. section and I plan on beginning the input/output plugs, switches, and associated wiring next. However, I hadn't examined the Vampire CM2F RCA jacks before ...
 What's up with the "shield" connection? Just a "notch" in the outer body? The construction of the plug is beautiful, as is the finish, but this notch (or slot) is the only supplied connection point?
 Seems odd.
 I've examined as many pictures as I could find and this does appear to be the case. What is the preferred method of electrical attachment? The physical connection is the first step in a properly soldered connection. What am I missing here? Does one fill the slot with a wire, heat the connector, and feed the solder into the junction?
 Seems really odd ... or is it the lead filled solder fumes deteriorating brain cells at an alarming rate?
 It could happen ...
     

[tubesforever]

Yep, you put the wire in the v, hold it down with the iron and apply solder.  It should run and stick.

I consider this a cold solder joint.....at least in my line of thinking.

To avoid this, I take the smallest drill I have and put a hole in that plate.  Then I put the ground wire in, apply the iron and touch off with the solder.  When the solder flows into the hole you know you have a hot solder joint.

I do exactly the same thing with the direct gold plated OFC vampire male RCA's.  Drill, insert, heat, solder, and you end up with sonic  perfection.

Oh man, I will probably get a million emails about drilling a hole and applying a hot iron    I have two kids....I know how anatomy works. 

[Bobzilla]

 Tubes,
 Thanks for the rapid response, I knew you were there!

[hagtech]

3 way selector switch with values of say 0.001, 0.002, and 0.003

I don't think you have to go that extreme.  Look at the ratio of small caps in the ARCHIVER circuit (C6). Then go with something like that.

www.hagtech.com/pdf/archiverman.pdf

jh

[Bobzilla]

 Finally!!
 That time comes when you've finished with observational checks, preliminary voltage readings, and perhaps corrected any errors ... ( ah, that unused connection directly in the center of the nine pin tube sockets is NOT a ground ... but you already knew that ... right?) Anyway, the fuse held, the scope shots looked good, the filament voltage is too low (5.728 V.) but functional, (meaning I'll have to go back in to replace the 3 ohm dropping resistor) sooooooo it's done enough to to audition!





 This line amp is QUIET! Dead silent. Uncannily, almost scary, is this really on ... did the fuse blow, velvet black, quiet. I can't critique the sound yet because it's just too new and I've got to get over to Mills and get a new resister for the filament supply. (That's correct, much to my surprise Mills resistors are made in Rancho Cordova, just a few miles from my work. That's really a story unto itself!)
 I have a social affair to attend soon, so I have to shut the Clarinet down now and get ready. My feelings as of this moment are that this has definitely been worth the time, effort, and money ... it's filled with promise!

 I'll be back with detail and further analysis.         
   

[Bobzilla]

Random thoughts on Clarinet build:

 1. The board.

  This board is beautiful! You should buy it. Not only for the ease of construction but to support Jim Hagerman and, indirectly, to support the entire DIY community. I think Jim will back me on this. Even though I only utilized a portion of the entire board, it was the right choice.

 2. The transformer.

 I've seen a lot of discussion on various aspects of the transformer, such as humming, grounding and overheating. I found the size as specified in the parts list is fine but, as a precaution, I did mount mine about four inches away, diagonally, from the rectifier tube. I also insullated it accoustically, electrically, and magnetically from the case with a layer of Sorbothane and nylon bushings. I split the internal ground into two seperate circuits, one from transformer ground and one from transformer case ground. These are brought directly to the single point "star" ground. After 18 hours of continious use, I measured the following fahrenheit tempertures with an infrared reading thermometer: Ambiant temp. - 81, Surface of lansing case - 85, Transformer core - 121, Rectifier tube - 215, front 12au7 - 185. Keeping in mind that my filament voltage is still slightly low, none of these reading are excessive.

 3. Board level components.

 Acting upon the advice of many Audio Circle contributers, (and with a special thanks to Tubesforever!) I used premium components throughout. The PRP resistors take extra care due to the somewhat larger size of the one watt versions with regards to the hole spacing on the Hagerman boards. I found that by first grasping the leed with hemostats at the junction of the end cap and making a 180 degree bend, then dropping down to the bent leed and bending back 90 degrees will allow for perfect allignment. This will not only align the leeds perfectly and take all of the pressure off of the delicate end caps, but will also slightly raise the body of the resistor off of the surface of the board, never a bad idea when disapating a watt. I feel that the nude Vishays are an important part of the unreal lack of noise. Worth the price.
 The capacitors, costly as they are, work for me, especially shunted with the Russian Teflons! Much good has been written of these. All true!

That's it for now. I have a vacation to go on, followed by the construction of a Coronet, and I'm pretty sure that I neen a new equipment rack too ...

Tick, Tock ...

[tubesforever]

As much as we all like to save money and find a great deal, the Vishay nudes at 11.95 might seem stupid silly nonsense to many of you. 

I did the due dilligence researching these resistors.  I looked them over from top to bottom.  I found out they are used in nuclear subs for their sonar and auditory analysis.

Basically they reduce noise to a level unprecedented in electronics.

They are not high enough rated in wattage to throw in everywhere.  They only cover .6 volts so I put them only in the direct signal pathway. 

I like the PRP's and the Kiwami's everywhere else.  Pick your poison but if you want ultra clarity and micro dynamics you should try those Vishays.  They are worth the price of admission.

Bob, I take my hat off to you!  Your handling of the power supply is simple diy genius.

Kind of like Jim's twin chassis design for the Trumpet.  But in a well thought out properly shielded single chassis.

I love my Vishay stepped attenuator.  I think this has a lot to do with getting the clarity and focus I hear.  I hope you have as much fun as I have had this last year.  The Clarinet is a superb piece and so silent it defies my ability to describe it.  It is quieter than my amplifier.

Both LPs and digital sound a lot better with the Clarinet.  Thanks Jim for building such a fun and amazing line stage.  The ability to build a world class line stage for under a 1000 dollars is what keeps me excited about the future of diy electronics.

Cheers!