[cryoparts]

X2! 

Peace,

Lee

That being said it is really easy to build a few different variations of pc's using inexpensive parts and hear that it changes the sound of your system.

[BobM]

But Bob,

How do you know that your hearing/brain is just getting used to the thing. Audio memory is not very good. If it's not an instant a/b comparison, the task is difficult at best. There is also a psychology of the money spent on the new cord and "it's gonna sound damn good, damn it" scenario? Especially when the wife comes in to listen and says "can't here any difference". And, "when am I going to get the new washer and dryer?"

Wayner

Some things are subtle or not evident at all - I agree that a direct and instant A-B is necessary to even get a hint of a difference there. But others are pretty readily evident (even to "cloth eared nincompoops" as my daughter is fond of calling her friends who don't like prog music like she does. No, I'm not calling you names, not yet anyway.  ).

I'm really not trying to force anything on you except the will and desire to try it and give it a chance for yourself. Experimentation often leads to knowledge, and sometimes leads to true improvements. Overall, you will still need to make your own judgements, but please make them informed judgements.

Bob

[ipy]

Yes - JPS & Black Sands 

[Folsom]

I work in a highly technical industry that deals with all kinds of signal. I know that there are infections from AC into delicate analog devices. The company I work for manufacturers about 50 percent of the worlds suspensions (reader head for the hard drive) for the hard disc drive manufacturers. However, there are other things at work here that I can't talk about. There are some silly notions (IMHO) that no-one has answered yet. How do you explain the wonderful power cord when it reaches the unshielded IEC socket? After the socket entry, there is no shielding. All is exposed to the internals of the device. The shielded cable offered no defense and the IEC socket let all of the interference in. No one at the gate.

Now if you want to talk about a power cord affecting poorly shielded audio cables, that might be a differrent story. And that is what some of you may be experiencing. However, I've been running vinyl for a long time, running micro-volt cables criss-cross with 120 volt cables and have heard zero bad effects from this. I have heard bad things from a wall wart or other transformer or motor type devices.

Wayner

A good post!!
I was a machine builder for many years, and delt with exactly the same problems almost continously. We never ever used a IEC connection on anything period as they're dirty. We used a completely different style plug that was also locking (no matter how many wires were being used [anywhere from three to twenty at a time]) . We did power cables that carried everything from a minus twelve volts to 440 three phase, and probably tried at least a hundred brands of wire over the years. The best quality small gauge stuff was from Alpha Core, but the best for higher loads was always from TPC that used a copper shielding in it. (CNC drives make good antennas, and can emmit more junk than twenty amps can). Another thought here is seriously how many cable manufacturers own a smelting plant to formualte their own alloys? And if they did; how come they don't copyright the alloy? Why is because they don't, and they're just using somebody elses with their name printed on the insulation. They may make a spec'd change in the foil wrap (really only three or four types), and the color. I use nothing but WBT ends on everything (will say I'm not sure what the IEC ends are, but they're big and ugly), and really think that has more to do with the cables than anything.
gary

So what connectors are those locking ones? What ones do you recommend? Wayner?

I do not use IEC but I do not have locking either.

[Browntrout]

Hello, with reference to the original question...both my preamplifier and poweramplifier has it's own 2m Russ Andrews Signature copper Powercord going into it's own mainsblock which each have a Russ Andrews Ultrapurifier Platinum connected with 1m Reference Powercords, additional to this each has it's own passive surge protection. The mains blocks are connected to a double wall socket by two 1m Signature Powercords. The turntable power supply has a 2m Classic powercord to a mains block with passive surge protection and a 1m Classic Powercord to another separate wall socket.
    I have found that separating each component as far as possible produces the most free and open sound even as far as each part of the amp having it's own mains conditioning.
    I intend to separate each component all the way back to a consumer unit over the coming few months, I have experimented with this before and found it to be very effective indeed.

   

[Russtafarian]

So what connectors are those locking ones? What ones do you recommend? Wayner?

I do not use IEC but I do not have locking either.

Neutric PowerCon:  http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=092-280 

I hate IEC connectors and replace them with PowerCon's whenever possible.

Russ

[ckline]

Sorry, it seems the direct link I provided early isn't happening .

Try:

http://www.affordableaudio.org/

go to the Aug. 2008 issue starts on pg. 49

[Phil]

Wayner,

Funny you should mention your wife.  Recently, my wife (who has excellent ears for languages as well as music) walked through our living room while I was listening to music.  She immediately asked if I had "done something to the stereo, because it sounds harsh."  Clever woman.  I was playing with power cords (which she didn't know) and she was able to tell immediately.  Well, I too agreed that that combination didn't sound better (two aftermarket cords - the less expensive one sounded better in this application).  I changed it back to the original cord and we both enjoyed the music.

Phil

[satfrat]

I work in a highly technical industry that deals with all kinds of signal. I know that there are infections from AC into delicate analog devices. The company I work for manufacturers about 50 percent of the worlds suspensions (reader head for the hard drive) for the hard disc drive manufacturers. However, there are other things at work here that I can't talk about. There are some silly notions (IMHO) that no-one has answered yet. How do you explain the wonderful power cord when it reaches the unshielded IEC socket? After the socket entry, there is no shielding. All is exposed to the internals of the device. The shielded cable offered no defense and the IEC socket let all of the interference in. No one at the gate.

Now if you want to talk about a power cord affecting poorly shielded audio cables, that might be a differrent story. And that is what some of you may be experiencing. However, I've been running vinyl for a long time, running micro-volt cables criss-cross with 120 volt cables and have heard zero bad effects from this. I have heard bad things from a wall wart or other transformer or motor type devices.

Wayner

A good post!!
I was a machine builder for many years, and delt with exactly the same problems almost continously. We never ever used a IEC connection on anything period as they're dirty. We used a completely different style plug that was also locking (no matter how many wires were being used [anywhere from three to twenty at a time]) . We did power cables that carried everything from a minus twelve volts to 440 three phase, and probably tried at least a hundred brands of wire over the years. The best quality small gauge stuff was from Alpha Core, but the best for higher loads was always from TPC that used a copper shielding in it. (CNC drives make good antennas, and can emmit more junk than twenty amps can). Another thought here is seriously how many cable manufacturers own a smelting plant to formualte their own alloys? And if they did; how come they don't copyright the alloy? Why is because they don't, and they're just using somebody elses with their name printed on the insulation. They may make a spec'd change in the foil wrap (really only three or four types), and the color. I use nothing but WBT ends on everything (will say I'm not sure what the IEC ends are, but they're big and ugly), and really think that has more to do with the cables than anything.
gary

Thanks Gary.

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud here. At work I have to deal with facts. Those are things that drive the design. Here is what ultimately bothers me. Why wouldn't a component designer, whether he's designing a amp. preamp,  DAC or even CD player, forget all the rules of electrical design and go completely over the top on every component selection and implamentation? Maybe some do and that explains why their stuff sells for 5, 10 even 20 times the price. Is it real value? Has a $1000 aftermarket powercord made my $600 dollar Cambridge preamp sound 2 times better? Sorry, I'm not in that camp. And this is the heart and sole of the issue. Your spending big dollars for .XX% something sound improvement. Most of you say it doesn't even show up for weeks and then, there it is, a bigger, blacker soundstage or it has more detail. To me...and apparently it's just me, if I plug it in and it doesn't sound better instantly, it ain't.

I really wonder Wayner if you'll be able to learn to sing a different tune IF Frank Van Alstine does in fact change his tune after trying one of Paul Kaplan's newly developed power cords? I do respect Frank for going against his beliefs long enough to actually listen,,  something you don't seem to be able to do for yourself. HEY, anyone who tries an aftermarket power cord and they don't hear a difference,,,that's cool with me. But folks like you Wayner and those who throw out their Ph.D's,,, who already know all the facts but have yet just listened for themselves, well I'll just let ya'all talk to the hand cuz you don't have that I've been there respect from me. As for the high dollar power cords being worth it, couldn't agree with you more, especially when after doing listening comparisons, an DIY Asylum Volex power cord can hold it's own aginst many of these $$$$ power cords,, which simply says no one needs to spend the big bucks to enjoy the improvements derived from replacing stock power cords. But until you yourself do a Frank Van Alstine power cord listening comparison of your own, you'll really never know. But HEY,,, just maybe Frank can tell you once more what to hear so then you'll know,,,, again. I hope for your sake, Frank hears nothing.

Cheers,
Robin

[bummrush]

I didnt think Frank would go for the challenge,I'm glad he's up for it.

[satfrat]

I didnt think Frank would go for the challenge,I'm glad he's up for it.

Just 1 more reason why I have a lot of respect for the guy.

[Wayner]

First, if Frank decides to goes with the IEC socket, I'll be changing the sheet metal drawings for him. We had talked about it about a year ago. The problem is really keeping the product integral as lots of not so smart DIYer's start making cords and then the polarity is wrong and trouble starts. Personally I could care less if anyone wants to put 0000 cable on their 10 watt consuming DAC. It's not my money. It's Frank's products and Frank's elves do what Frank wants. Period.

Satfrat, I've been into audio for 40 years. I've seen (and tried) lots of tweaks, IC's and all kinds of weird stuff. I've thrown more money away on stupid shit that would in itself buy a nice mid-fi system. Not everything is learned in a classroom, it's from life experiences. We've talked about powercord shielding, powercord conduction, resistance, capacitance, skin effect and even jacket material and we are still at an impass.

I have many questions. Does one group of people have superior hearing? I get my hearing checked every year and the testers are amazed at my hearing levels, considering my age, close to ruler flat. I do not shoot guns and don't go near loud noises.

Do some of us have more revealing systems? I think most of us here have pretty damn good stuff. We wouldn't be members of the Audiocircles if that wasn't the case.

I'm fussy with my systems, I have the speakers aligned to about 1/32" in all directions. That's abit anal, right? I screw around with cartridge alignment until I can't see straight anymore. But I can hear when vinyl isn't tracking right.

Did you ever watch Star Trek? Well, I am pretty much Mr. Spock. I've been in designing all of my life. I have 3 US patents. I help design machines that make your computer's hard disc drive work. What can I say. It's all of those years of doing designing. It's maybe I don't listen for the things that you do.

[topround]

This is a thread that will not end well

I can see it.

At one time it was considered heresy to call the world round.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy

[cryoparts]

Check out the new 32A Powercon's.  I received some a while back that I am evaluating, they are built VERY well.

http://www.neutrik.com/us/en/industry/204_2044822873/PowerCon%C2%AE_32_Amp_productlist.aspx

Peace,

Lee

So what connectors are those locking ones? What ones do you recommend? Wayner?

I do not use IEC but I do not have locking either.

Neutric PowerCon:  http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=092-280 

I hate IEC connectors and replace them with PowerCon's whenever possible.

Russ

[Crimson]

Just an FYI, there are other manufacturers here at AC that don't believe in aftermarket power cords and are just as vocal about it. Read some of the other manufacturer/owner Circles. So why's everyone ganging up on Mr VA?

[topround]

Probably because we don't know who they are!
Let them be vocal here and now.

Let's get this over with so we can move on, it is boring being stuck in the Middle Ages.

[ckline]

Ok third times a charm, sorry it was the Sept. 2008 issue pg. 49 Studies on Residential Power line noise.

http://www.affordableaudio.org/

[funkmonkey]

Ok third times a charm, sorry it was the Sept. 2008 issue pg. 49 Studies on Residential Power line noise.

http://www.affordableaudio.org/

Good read, thanks

[Wind Chaser]

Just an FYI, there are other manufacturers here at AC that don't believe in aftermarket power cords and are just as vocal about it. Read some of the other manufacturer/owner Circles.

And there's some people who think the world is flat...

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/

[JohnR]

I'd ask that members please allow others to express their opinions and to refrain from mockery and caricaturization, that will never convince anyone of anything or make anything better.