[Folsom]

I'll assume that you've put IEC outlets on your TV's, coffee maker, microwave and electric shaver.  Think of how better they will perform with a higher gauge, shielded cord.

It's really funny here. We have 2 camps. Camp 1 has horrible AC and must have a line conditioner to make the AC bearable. Camp 2 must love the AC and completely shields it. You guys are all genius.

As fun as your Camp 1 and Camp 2 remarks are you know as well as anyone that it is utterly stupid as well. Camp 1 is conditioning their AC which has merits that are undeniable. Do not believe me, turn on your microwaves and other strange things and scope the line, it has a lot of crap on it. Well you can hear it anyways often when you do not have dedicated lines anyhow. I can watch the lights dim in my house from all sorts of things. Camp 2 is trying to keep out all the things from other means of inductance than line as Camp 1 was doing. They have the same goals and most of the time go together for obvious reasons. Sounding self righteous is fun so I guess I understand why you maid the comment.

However I am not trying to tick you off. I usually think you are a good contribution to the forum.

I would like to point something out... While in some cases the regular patch cord or built in cord measure to be the relative same as any other aftermarket cord, other times they are made from crap. I imagine that the ability to "drive" so to speak a piece of equipment is similar to say driving a speaker with certain types of amplifiers. This is why capacitance, inductance, and resistance all play a role. We also know fluctuation of demand by a unit and the available current is important too. Also we know the given characteristics have a tendancy to change sometimes based on elements like heat, or sometimes not even a change with the cord itself in temperature but rather the component that the AC line is "driving" and there for changes the type of load on your AC line.

Lots of variables, is it really any kind of surprise a power cord could make a difference? Now I personally doubt it makes as big of a difference as some people believe on one hand. The reason I think that is I think any high quality and capable cord will always relatively act the same no matter where it is, speaker, line, RCA, etc.... so long as the regular parameters are decent or similar (inductance, capacitance and resistance) which is often the case in high quality copper. However on the other hand I believe a lot of manufactures make up a lot of ways to "improve" cables of any kind and actually change those parameters, or do other strange things to color or choke or act regular. You have to realize at some point one cable is doing a disfavor to you but do to your setup you like the way it sounds. It might choke stuff but it makes it sound more refined and better imaging etc, that sort of thing. I honestly think physics and empirical evidence provide a lot of information and to some level will explain almost all of it. That makes the big question, where do the big differences come from then, I theorize the cable makers do all that they can to color and taint stuff in different ways as possible so someone will think it sounds better even if it technically on paper is the opposite. It is subjective so you can serve them with "subjective" things so long as you tell them it is better and give some stupid reason.

[JIMV]

I use after market power cords in my system and I am purely interested in knowing a percentage of other owners that do so?  This is not intended to start another one of those threads of prove the justification for use of after market power cords.  If it evolves into that I hope the facilitator will send this to the waste bin.

Thanks,

Ken

PS Audio basic product on my amp, cd player and DAC

[cryoparts]

Hey, there are lots of good DIY power cables out there. 

Disclaimer--yes I sell finished aftermarket power cables and "stuff" for those who are so inclined to DIY as well.

Peace,

Lee

Does DIY count as "after market"?

[denjo]

Black Sands all the way - Ref IV and Statement One.

[Glen B]

I sell finished aftermarket power cables and "stuff" for those who are so inclined to DIY as well.

Peace,

Lee

Lee,
I'm interested in the Iego IEC inlets and power connectors, but every time I visit your website, it says that you are either "expecting a shipment" or "will be ordering" products.  It has been like this for months.  Will you ever have the Iego parts IN STOCK ? 

Glen

[Rashiki]

I do use aftermarket cords, but only $6 volex cords, and I only replace the cords that are easy to replace. Does that count?

[cryoparts]

Yeah...I have an order "pending", however, I can't seem to get them to give me the new prices (they went up a couple of months ago) and reliably communicate with me.  I am hoping to see them at CES so we can put our heads together and figure out how we can do business together.  If I am unable to resolve the "issues" at CES, I will be forced to drop them from my mix, which will be too bad as their AC ends and inlets are really quite nice.

Sorry for the confusion.  I hope to have it resolved soon.

Peace,

Lee

I sell finished aftermarket power cables and "stuff" for those who are so inclined to DIY as well.

Peace,

Lee

Lee,
I'm interested in the Iego IEC inlets and power connectors, but every time I visit your website, it says that you are either "expecting a shipment" or "will be ordering" products.  It has been like this for months.  Will you ever have the Iego parts IN STOCK ? 

Glen

[ckline]

Lee, you're still mess'n around with them? I thought that you had ditched that many months ago. How's it going buddy! Fancy meeting you here. Man that got all sorts of posting options here  wheee!!!

[cryoparts]

Yeah, I really like the ends and want to carry them, however, my patience is wearing thin...

Stick around Chris, this is a cool place, about the only "audio" place I hang out and post.

For those of you who don't know Chris, he makes the Tel Wire power cables.  Very nice cables!

Peace,

Lee

Lee, you're still mess'n around with them? I thought that you had ditched that many months ago. How's it going buddy! Fancy meeting you here. Man that got all sorts of posting options here  wheee!!!

[satfrat]

Does DIY count as "after market"?

I keep finding it interesting that so many people argue that they can or cannot hear the difference between cables and if a difference even exists.      Tried expensive cables and hear zero difference but it took me awhile to be honest with myself.

It's now 5 to 1 against your zero difference statement unfortunately so,,,,,,

Actually, the poll is whether you use them, not whether you hear a difference...

Yep you're right,,, makes no nevermind if you hear a difference or not in so far as this poll is concerned. DIY cord is an aftermarket cord IMO as you are still replacing the stock power cord. 6-1  ratio of aftermarket power cord users now regardless of whether or not anyone's actually hearing a difference from using them.

I do!

Cheers,
Robin

[lazydays]

I work in a highly technical industry that deals with all kinds of signal. I know that there are infections from AC into delicate analog devices. The company I work for manufacturers about 50 percent of the worlds suspensions (reader head for the hard drive) for the hard disc drive manufacturers. However, there are other things at work here that I can't talk about. There are some silly notions (IMHO) that no-one has answered yet. How do you explain the wonderful power cord when it reaches the unshielded IEC socket? After the socket entry, there is no shielding. All is exposed to the internals of the device. The shielded cable offered no defense and the IEC socket let all of the interference in. No one at the gate.

Now if you want to talk about a power cord affecting poorly shielded audio cables, that might be a differrent story. And that is what some of you may be experiencing. However, I've been running vinyl for a long time, running micro-volt cables criss-cross with 120 volt cables and have heard zero bad effects from this. I have heard bad things from a wall wart or other transformer or motor type devices.

Wayner

A good post!!
I was a machine builder for many years, and delt with exactly the same problems almost continously. We never ever used a IEC connection on anything period as they're dirty. We used a completely different style plug that was also locking (no matter how many wires were being used [anywhere from three to twenty at a time]) . We did power cables that carried everything from a minus twelve volts to 440 three phase, and probably tried at least a hundred brands of wire over the years. The best quality small gauge stuff was from Alpha Core, but the best for higher loads was always from TPC that used a copper shielding in it. (CNC drives make good antennas, and can emmit more junk than twenty amps can). Another thought here is seriously how many cable manufacturers own a smelting plant to formualte their own alloys? And if they did; how come they don't copyright the alloy? Why is because they don't, and they're just using somebody elses with their name printed on the insulation. They may make a spec'd change in the foil wrap (really only three or four types), and the color. I use nothing but WBT ends on everything (will say I'm not sure what the IEC ends are, but they're big and ugly), and really think that has more to do with the cables than anything.
gary

[Sonny]

I voted yes, but the after market cables I use are my own, DIY cables...
 

[Gaara]

I do use aftermarket cords, but only $6 volex cords, and I only replace the cords that are easy to replace. Does that count?

Same here, bought a bunch of 17604s for ~$9 each.  All in I have <$100 in aftermarket PCs for my audio components in 2 systems...which for a lot of guys is less then the price for one cord.  I think of "Aftermarket" as any component purchased to replace stock, so by that definition yes even a $6 PC would be considered aftermarket.

[rydenfan]

Lee, you're still mess'n around with them? I thought that you had ditched that many months ago. How's it going buddy! Fancy meeting you here. Man that got all sorts of posting options here  wheee!!!

Chris, great to see you here!  I will send you the link as soon as I get my thoughts together on your Cord. It should be no later than this weekend.

[ckline]

Thanks Lee 

for all that want a 'white paper' after market pc's

http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2008-09.pdf

start on pg. 49


That being said it is really easy to build a few different variations of pc's using inexpensive parts and hear that it changes the sound of your system. Trick is making all those changes positive. Most people who poo poo (technical term) the validity of an after market pc haven't done this. They can't get their head wrapped around why/how it could make a difference so they argue vehemently that is doesn't.

[Wind Chaser]

They can't get their head wrapped around why/how it could make a difference so they argue vehemently that is doesn't.

I used to be in that camp, but the proof is in the pudding.  Any naysayer with an open honest mind who is willing to try is in for a surprise.  With all the money back guarantees, there is no excuse not trying.

[ckline]

Looking forward to it Dave 

[Wayner]

I work in a highly technical industry that deals with all kinds of signal. I know that there are infections from AC into delicate analog devices. The company I work for manufacturers about 50 percent of the worlds suspensions (reader head for the hard drive) for the hard disc drive manufacturers. However, there are other things at work here that I can't talk about. There are some silly notions (IMHO) that no-one has answered yet. How do you explain the wonderful power cord when it reaches the unshielded IEC socket? After the socket entry, there is no shielding. All is exposed to the internals of the device. The shielded cable offered no defense and the IEC socket let all of the interference in. No one at the gate.

Now if you want to talk about a power cord affecting poorly shielded audio cables, that might be a differrent story. And that is what some of you may be experiencing. However, I've been running vinyl for a long time, running micro-volt cables criss-cross with 120 volt cables and have heard zero bad effects from this. I have heard bad things from a wall wart or other transformer or motor type devices.

Wayner

A good post!!
I was a machine builder for many years, and delt with exactly the same problems almost continously. We never ever used a IEC connection on anything period as they're dirty. We used a completely different style plug that was also locking (no matter how many wires were being used [anywhere from three to twenty at a time]) . We did power cables that carried everything from a minus twelve volts to 440 three phase, and probably tried at least a hundred brands of wire over the years. The best quality small gauge stuff was from Alpha Core, but the best for higher loads was always from TPC that used a copper shielding in it. (CNC drives make good antennas, and can emmit more junk than twenty amps can). Another thought here is seriously how many cable manufacturers own a smelting plant to formualte their own alloys? And if they did; how come they don't copyright the alloy? Why is because they don't, and they're just using somebody elses with their name printed on the insulation. They may make a spec'd change in the foil wrap (really only three or four types), and the color. I use nothing but WBT ends on everything (will say I'm not sure what the IEC ends are, but they're big and ugly), and really think that has more to do with the cables than anything.
gary

Thanks Gary.

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud here. At work I have to deal with facts. Those are things that drive the design. Here is what ultimately bothers me. Why wouldn't a component designer, whether he's designing a amp. preamp,  DAC or even CD player, forget all the rules of electrical design and go completely over the top on every component selection and implamentation? Maybe some do and that explains why their stuff sells for 5, 10 even 20 times the price. Is it real value? Has a $1000 aftermarket powercord made my $600 dollar Cambridge preamp sound 2 times better? Sorry, I'm not in that camp. And this is the heart and sole of the issue. Your spending big dollars for .XX% something sound improvement. Most of you say it doesn't even show up for weeks and then, there it is, a bigger, blacker soundstage or it has more detail. To me...and apparently it's just me, if I plug it in and it doesn't sound better instantly, it ain't.

[BobM]

What about giving things time to break in? Please don't tell me that you haven't experienced that either.

Maybe you need to slow it down and give it more of a chance. You can always go back and forth to see if what you think you are hearing (or not hearing) is really there or not.

Bob

[Wayner]

But Bob,

How do you know that your hearing/brain is just getting used to the thing. Audio memory is not very good. If it's not an instant a/b comparison, the task is difficult at best. There is also a psychology of the money spent on the new cord and "it's gonna sound damn good, damn it" scenario? Especially when the wife comes in to listen and says "can't here any difference". And, "when am I going to get the new washer and dryer?"

Wayner