[S Clark]

I have my LS9 cabinet cut out and ready to apply pomelle sapelle veneer. This is unbacked and a vacuum bag will be used.  This is really pretty stuff, so I want to take my time and make this show the grain to the max.  But.... I've never done anything this big before.  What are your recommendations in stains (I'm leaning to a light orange) and finish? I have a local that can use a spray rig for multi coats of laquer for a reasonable price. Is this one of the better options?

[EARGASM]

Removed by member.

[S Clark]

Well, sounds like gobs of fun to me! Nothing like really going for it right out of the gate! Yee haw!

On an LS-9, I'd likely try to stain in two or three steps, then tone to the final finish. Alot has to be accounted for, though. The color of the natural veneer, uniformity of your flitch, the way the log was sliced. Hows the figure, pomelle you say? How dense? There is quite a lot of figure.Are you book matching?I was, but it sounds like it's a bad idea on Sapele
Sapele can be really sweet, but when you book match it, the light reflects in the opposite direction, so slip matching is probably best. It comes pretty wide, so you aren't splicing, right? Actually, I am going to have to splice three peices together Each strip is only about 8" wide

Okay, here we go. You have to practice on some decent sized samples. Press up some MDF pieces so you can play. Sand them EXACTLY the same as your final piece. EXACTLY. Cut them into squares. Find the color you want, and determine whether or not you need to kill or modify the natural reds in the sapele firstThis sample is actually rather light, to get to where you want to go. I don't know from where you are starting nor where you are trying to get to, but everything is possible. You may have to bleach it, apply a new base tone, and build from there. If you have to bleach it, it starts to look line anigre, and you can do anything in the world with it. Likely you will saturate What is "saturate"?for the base color, and sand through the figure until you get a two-tone where the soft wood absorbs more stain. From there, you apply a potentially different color, or a thinner ratio that will contrast with your first tone, and begin to pop the figure. Alcohol soluble dye stains are probably your best bet for transparency, but you need to gradually spray them on to get the tones to be even, on a 7 ft speaker. They also raise the grain. It could very well take a combination of wiping stain and dye stain to get to where you need to go. After you get the color right, stand them both up together. In your cup gun, dilute the dye with some lacquer thinner to a tiny fraction of the ratio you used in the stain, and just tone it up, like using an airbrush.

You'll need to get a digital postage scale from the office supply store, so you can measure your stain ratios and document them by the micro gram. Strain everything, even your thinner. Keep them out of the direct sunlight until you get the topcoat on. Take your samples into the environment where the speakers will live, and evaluate them there for a few days. Wear protective stuff every time, or the dye will stain your fingers for a week. I'd use a 2 part polyurethane or urethane top coat. Lacquer is cool and very easy, but you get *SO* much better build with the automotive catalyzed finishes. You need to wear a moon suit to spray them though. I use a produce called "EURO" from ML Campbell. Be certain to top coat your samples.

PM me if you like, because this is the fun part!  If you want, send me your samples and a target and I'll mix your stains up for you. Nothing like having a paint kitchen! Denny's (Custom Concepts) finishes are also killer. You can tell he has big fun, as well. Haven't seem him around in a while, though.

Don't forget to have some fun. You can always sand it off, and do it again.

Wow. Now that's an answer.  Thanks a bunch, Eric.  After Christmas, I'll be giving you a call.

Scott

[EARGASM]

Removed by member.

[smk]

After staining & finishing, never use a "wax-based" polish. Ove time, you'll get a "waxy-build-up." Use something like lemon oil.

[Christof]

Yeah, what Eric said   I think you can take a couple steps out and still have a good time, us wood guys are gluttons for punishment, admit it Eric .  I'd pick up some Transtint from Homestead Finishing or Woodcraft, color #6003 or similar.  Mix it into a 1:1 water/alcohol solution and apply it quickly.  If you have a gun it makes things easier but Transtint can be wiped, no problem.  If you are afraid of lap marks just change the water/alcohol ratio to 2:1 or even 100% water, doesn't matter much.  Sand the wood and do it again...as many times as you need to get the desired effect.  Dye application can be stacked on top of each other, no problem.  Seal it with Dewaxed shellac (with gun) or Waterlox (without gun) and topcoat or have your local shop shoot them for you.

Note-you must seal the wood after applying dye with water/alcohol.  the dye will come back off as easy (almost) as it went on, it's not like typical stain which has a "binder".  I always shoot a light coat of shellac or apply a coat of Waterlox over my dye as soon as I've hit my target color, just in case.



then...



or

[EARGASM]

Chicken.

[ebag4]

Timely thread Scott, I will also be finishing speakers in Sapele.  I am building a set of NEO 3s for my sister.  Below is the veneer I bought along with the finishes I picked up at Woodcraft.  Please let me know if this is a good direction to go or not, it will help save me a lot of experimentation.

First the veneer


The tinted Danish oil I am considering using


And the poly


I have used the danish oil with cherry tint on my modified OB5s with good results although I did not put a poly topcoat on them.  I am wanting to make certain the inner glow of the Sapele shines through, so should I forgo the danish oil or possibly use a non tinted version?

Any input is appreciated.

Best,
Ed

[EARGASM]

Removed by member.

[ebag4]

Thanks for the reply Eric.  Regarding the oil and water comment that is what i though as weel, however the gentleman at Woodcraft told me that as long as I waited 48 hours after applying the Danish oil I would be OK to use the water based poly.

Thanks you for the offer of your ricipe, yes I would like to get it.   I do not have any spray equipment so a wipe on is what I need.

One last question, will additional coats of the poly give greater glow or is there some other prepartion needed to get the "meduallary ray pop"?

Thanks again!

Best,
Ed

Okay,
Oil & water do not mix. Danish oil will not affect your meduallary ray "pop." It will darken the tone though, but don't use the tinted. I prefer tung oil, personally. Really though, please don't use the waterborne. It's sloppy, cloudy and overall, just weird. If you want my recipe for the ultimate wipe on finish, I'll give it to you. You'll need to warm it up to blend it then you are good to go. Say the word. It's more work than spraying, but the hand you get from it is delicious.

Eric

[WGH]

A easy finishing mix to use is the old 1-2-3 formula*:

1 part linseed oil
2 parts varnish - an gloss varnish with a high solid content works best, never use a polyurethane varnish
3 parts turpentine

Brush on a coat, let it soak in, then wipe off the excess.
Let dry 24-48 hours
Sand lightly with #220 sand paper
Repeat at least 2 more times.
Let dry then wax.

This finish actually smells nice.

If you want a less glossy finish you can apply the wax with 0000 steel wool.

I invented a varnish/wax* I use once in a while for the final coat:

1 part clear or tinted Trewax - melted in a double boiler, use a hot plate for heat, this is a flammable mixture.
When melted remove from heat and add:
1 part Waterlox
Apply with 0000 steel wool
Let dry slightly and buff
Let dry completely for at least 12 hours
The finish is very satiny and more durable than just wax.

*All Mixtures Spontaneously Combust
Rags soaked with any tung oil or linseed oil will catch fire if left balled up, usually while you are sleeping. These oils dry by combining with the oxygen in the air in a chemical reaction that causes heat. The heat will actually ignite the thinner, and then the rag, and then your house. Either hang the rags outdoors until dry or completely submerge them in water.

Wayne

[ebag4]

*All Mixtures Spontaneously Combust
Rags soaked with any tung oil or linseed oil will catch fire if left balled up, usually while you are sleeping. These oils dry by combining with the oxygen in the air in a chemical reaction that causes heat. The heat will actually ignite the thinner, and then the rag, and then your house. Either hang the rags outdoors until dry or completely submerge them in water.

Wayne

Really good ino Wayne, thanks for the heads-up!

Best,
Ed

[Don_S]

WARNING: Personal preferences and opinions follow:

I am a big fan of OSMO Hardwax Oil
http://www.vtpf.com/finishes.html#OsmoTransOpaque

I brings out the grain but does not "tint" the wood. I would describe the finish as "satin". It has a warm glow to it but not a gloss.  This product does not give a built out finish like multiple coats of varnish would. That may or may not be the look you desire.   Pleasant odor.

In my experience tung oil darkens wood and imparts an orange cast.  Same thing with linseed oil. Beware--raw linseed oil does not dry very well.  Boiled linseed oil works better if you must.

I prefer using stains that do NOT have any sealer mixed in.  I get more control. I can wipe off excess and make the results uniform and recoat if needed.  Then I seal in a separate step.

I avoid water-based products.  Water-based stains can raise the wood grain.  I have had water based varnishes turn out milky--especially in cold or damp weather.  I won't make that mistake again.

Note that my experience has been with full grain wood, not veneers.  The best option is to take some scrap material and have fun experimenting.

Good luck.  Of course posting pictures of your finished work is mandatory.

[Hank]

Answer in my experience:  hand-rubbed Danish oil finish.  I used the Watco Danish oil for years, now using a formula shared by a master, but very similar.  Nothing I've tried/seen gives the wood grain depth and "pop" that Danish oil provides.  I start with 600-grit, rubbing with the grain, keeping the wood flooded with oil.  Wipe execss oil off ACROSS the grain, let set for acouple hours or overnight (depending on humidity level), then go to 800-grit, then 1000-grit, then 1200-grit if you want.  Once or twice a year, rub on Watco liquid wax.  It's solvent based, so won't build up.  NEVER use cheap retail products like Pledge.  There's a tradeoff with everything, right?  Oil is the least protective finish, so don't let people set their cold drink glasses on top of your speakers.

[tcsubwoofer]

Stumbled across this thread and glad I did!  I hope I can slip in my question about my speaker project (versus starting a new thread), though I am using a different veneer and building a project from a different manufacturer.  I'm finishing up my veneer vacuum press and platens/cauls this weekend to start veneering my RC-5G speakers from Selah Audio.  I've been reading Bob Flexner's book on "Understanding Wood Finishing" and Terry Masachi's book "Foolproof Wood Finishing" trying to get a grasp on how to give my speakers a stunning finish.  OK, I like darker woods and have settled on Pau Ferro and I also love high gloss, mirror like finishes on speakers.  I'm a rosewood fan, but since the rosewood I like is endangered and also 2 to 3 times more expensive that is why I chose Pau Ferro.

The Pau Ferro Flitches are very nice and about 12" wide and +120" long.  I will have to book match them as the speakers are 16" wide at the base.  I had wanted to stain the Pau Ferro to give it some "rose", but am leaning away from this because it sounds too difficult.  Other than being more brown than I had desired, the veneer is very beautiful.  My main concern is what top coat process to use as I want a gloss mirror finish.  I'm a novice and the only thing I've stained/finished before is a built-in book shelf this summer using oil based poly wipe on.  Here are a few questions:

1. Is there an easy way to add "rose" to the Pau Ferro if so desired (perhaps with transtints)?;

2. What top coat is best for a set of speakers (I don't have a spray gun and need to wipe or brush)?  After reading the woodworking books it seems that filling the pores with a "cut" of my chosen topcoat or using a sealer is mandatory and then numerous coats of topcoat.  As much as I've read the books I still don't have a tangible grasp on what to use since there are so many choices and considerations.   Any recommendations?  There were a couple of recommendations in this thread - please remind me if you think you've already pointed out a killer combo.

Regarding use of Varnish, Lacquer, Danish oils, etc...I've been leaning away from Danish oil because of its low protection and need to be reapplied.  But darn - it sounds so easy to use!!  Maybe I should reconsider?  I've been leaning to some sort of varnish, but these books don't make clear recommendations on what to use only what's available - though wiping varnish seems to be a very good choice.  Repairability would be nice, but you don't get that with varnish.  I'm thinking of going down to Rocker and Woodcraft today and see what they recommend, but honestly I don't fully trust their recommendations as much as somebody who has already built some speakers.   Thanks for any feedback!

[EARGASM]

Removed by member.

[Danny Richie]

I'm thinking a new thread in Selah might be the way to go.

That's okay Eric. Let's help him out anyway. He might want to upgrade one day. 

tcsubwoofer, I am not much of a wood finishing expert, but will help in any way that I can. Feel free to use my forum for any questions you might have with anything.

[ecramer]

I'm thinking a new thread in Selah might be the way to go.

That's okay Eric. Let's help him out anyway. He might want to upgrade one day. 

tcsubwoofer, I am not much of a wood finishing expert, but will help in any way that I can. Feel free to use my forum for any questions you might have with anything.

Yea he might want to upgrade some day but if that's the case he wont be buying anything from you! 

[Danny Richie]

Yea he might want to upgrade some day but if that's the case he wont be buying anything from you!

Well, that's not very nice.

Hopefully one could tell from my little wink that I was just kidding with him.

[Danny Richie]

Oh wow, I just noticed from your signature line that you will be due for an upgrade soon too. 

Onix cd-3, KCI Falcon digital ic, North Star M192 DAC,  KCI Sound Bolts ic's, Rogue Audio Magnum 99, KCI Sound Bolts, Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes, Selah Audio Tanzinites, Selah Audio RC-5G VPI scout Signature arm Dynavector DV20Xl Cartridge