[chgolatin2]

Besides, Kabusa... Any other good PSU units for a Technics SL-1200? 

Thanks

[TheChairGuy]

SoundHiFi.com is likely to have the best...as it bypasses the stock regulator - a glaring weakness (according to Dave Cawley, the owner).

Not sure if it requires soldering, tho....and the price is higher than KAB's.

http://www.soundhifi.com/sl1200/index.htm

John

[chgolatin2]

Hi John, thanks but I already looked into your recommendation, their PSU is going for $389 plus $75 for shipping 

[TheChairGuy]

$249 + shipping from NJ is likely to be your best deal then.  The strobe disabler mod (easy to do, no soldering) is $50 and a good one to add on if you can afford it.

John

[Toka]

I'd like to see a an in-depth, 3rd-party comparison between the KAB and the Sound HiFi unit...being the 2nd horse in the race it isn't at all surprising that the SoundHF folks are claiming to have the better box, but I guess you never know.

[lcrim]

There is some misinformation in this thread.  The SoundHifi Power Supply is $456 plus shipping.when you do the currency exchange
The stock onboard regulator also contains the start up circuit for the motor.  The fact that the platter could easily run in reverse w/o that circuit should concern any user.  The quality of the stock  regulator is only a question mark to the owner of Soundhifi.

[jonners]

The stock onboard regulator also contains the start up circuit for the motor.  The fact that the platter could easily run in reverse w/o that circuit should concern any user.  

  I have built and installed my own DIY power supply for the 1210. It bypasses the onboard regulator and disables the strobe, but I have never had the platter start up in reverse. Looking at the schematic, I don't see how that could happen.

     John

[TheChairGuy]

There is some misinformation in this thread.  The SoundHifi Power Supply is $456 plus shipping.when you do the currency exchange
The stock onboard regulator also contains the start up circuit for the motor.  The fact that the platter could easily run in reverse w/o that circuit should concern any user.  The quality of the stock  regulator is only a question mark to the owner of Soundhifi.

Not so - cost of the PSU is 299 GBP...less 15% VAT rebate for non-UK residents. 254.15GBP at today's exchange rate is US$380.28.

I have no earthly idea if the stock onboard regulator is a source of final issue with the SL-1200 and me....but, despite having the KAB outboard supply, strobe disabler, using aftermarket arm(s) instead of stock, defeating the stock feet and placing on good isolation, getting rid of the rubber top mat for something sonically better.....it still has some irritating etch and definitely dark, muted dynamics that I cannot shake from it.  The unit has amazing feedback rejection so it's not that....there's not much left to blame except the stock regulator.

Mind you, it plays solid in many ways - but, something is holding back it's performance. I have zero reason to say otherwise - no one pays me for my opinion 

Dave Cawley, the owner of Sound HiFi, is a pretty serious engineer in his own right and while he sells some mighty nice tables and other wares - his everyday deck is his (modded) Technics SL-1200....his 'first' system:

Technics SL-1200MKII / SME M2-9 arm / Transfiguration Axia cartridge / Van den Hul arm interconnect / Vacuum State JLTi (DC Mod) phono stage / Marantz SC-7S2 preamp / 2 x MA-9S2 Marantz power amps / Usher Dancer loudspeakers

I put some credence in what he says about the stock regulator holding back the performance of the Technics SL-1200 based on circumstantial evidence alone.

John

[TheChairGuy]

I'd like to see a an in-depth, 3rd-party comparison between the KAB and the Sound HiFi unit...being the 2nd horse in the race it isn't at all surprising that the SoundHF folks are claiming to have the better box, but I guess you never know.

If I can convince Dave Cawley to send with to me with splice connectors instead of soldering (which Kevin at KAB did with his as I do not solder...or at least haven't in 30 years ) I keep thinking of giving it a go.  Not sure if I will, tho...I mean it is $450-odd all in all (with shipping) to me.

I need 1000 more of you to buy my carts, please, and I can get it.  Feels like a PBS beg-a-thon now don't it 

John

[AudioSoul]

   John, You said you exchanged your mat for something sonically better. What mat is it? Thanks.......David

[TheChairGuy]

   John, You said you exchanged your mat for something sonically better. What mat is it? Thanks.......David

I ended up as a sub-mat and a top as the best, overall.

The sub-mat that I ended up with is a DIY one made from EAR damping composites (EAR Isodamp C-1002...both the 0.625" and 0.125" thickness version).  Bought from Michael Percy Audio, 12 x 12" sheet, for about $30 each.

The top mat is a Herbie's Way Excellent...it was the original version (now in Mk. II status) and I think a 5mm thickness.

John

[Toka]

If I can convince Dave Cawley to send with to me with splice connectors instead of soldering (which Kevin at KAB did with his as I do not solder...or at least haven't in 30 years ) I keep thinking of giving it a go.  Not sure if I will, tho...I mean it is $450-odd all in all (with shipping) to me.

I need 1000 more of you to buy my carts, please, and I can get it.  Feels like a PBS beg-a-thon now don't it 

I would be most interested to read your findings if you did this...I know of nobody who has of yet! I wanted to write Kevin (KAB) and ask him about it, but I feel I've bugged him enough over such things. 

Beyond that, while reading the Sound HiFi page I thought the description of their mat sounded familiar...and then the photo looked really familiar...its a Herbie's mat! Way Excellent II. Some of the writing is copy/pasted wholesale...nothing wrong with that necessarily as rebranding is rampant in this hobby (just like any industry), but on their price list they say it is "only" available from them. Unless it is a custom diameter beyond the options available from Herbie I would have to raise an eyebrow in their direction...especially since its almost twice the price!

[Toka]

Update...Kevin (KAB) commented on the PSU "issue" on his website:


"SL-1200 Power Supply Controversy
Just as there was lots of criticism of the '1200 arms before they were rewired and fluid damped, now there seems to be a new focus on the 1200's internal voltage regulator: A textbook 3 transistor slow start circuit that maintains the operating voltage at 20VDC at a running current of 259mA. You know, I did all this research years ago, so when I first looked at this UK site's data, I thought they had something, but I have looked closer and can now comment more intelligently.

A UK website is showing 'scope photos suggesting that the load regulation of this circuit is somehow unacceptable. I feel I have to point out a big error with this conclusion. It's so obvious when you study the numbers: Their data is not the showing the motor current at all, it is showing the strobe lamp current! Just look at the repitition rate, it is 10ms(100hz). Motor currents pulse at a very slow rate(1.65 Hz). If the motor was pulsing at 100 hz, like their scope photo shows, the motor would be humming along at some 2,000 rpm(100/3x60)! And it can't be ripple from the main capacitor either for that waveform would not be symetrical like the one shown. It is so easy to mis read data when you are expecting a certain result in advance. We see this done with tonearm resonance flexure plots as well as harmonic distortion plots. It is always important to actually "run the numbers" to get the true impact. It also helps to know what you are looking at.
Installing an outboard PS after the internal regulator may reduce the strobe artifact, but disabling the strobe itself is a better solution for then, the noise source EMF no longer exists.

The internal regulator responds very well to motor load currents, but is not "fast" enough to completely extinguish the strobe lamp currents. However, note that it is doing quite a good job as the regulation is still only 0.05% of the 21VDC operating voltage. When I saw this in my own research, I saw a much more cost effective solution to it: our SX-1200 Strobe disabler circuit completely removes this artifact and EMF at a very low cost. Because while you may only see 10mV RMS on the 21V main rail, on the other side of an isolation resistor, you have 16VP-P which produces yet another EMF field. The only way to remove it is to disable the current path to the strobe LED's.

I could have designed the PS-1200 to connect after this regulator, but it is well known that 2 regulators are better than one, providing much greater isolation. It is easier to deal with the strobe artifact by disconnecting the strobe itself. And I believe the slow start function of the interntal regulator plays a role in reliable start up of the motor. The main issues to solve in the 1200 power supply is to eliminate all sources of AC EMF's and eliminate the large 120Hz ripple current on the main board due to inadequate filter capacitance. Our PS-1200 in concert with the SX-1200 provides a better overall solution than a single regulator IC.

I also felt that a consumer product should be easy to install and be free from causing disaster if installed improperly. Since the PS-1200 is installed ahead of the bridge rectifier, it is polarity insensitive making it easy for anyone to install with confidence. A power supply directly connected to the main board, if connected backwards, would completely wipe out every IC on the board and who knows what else. There is also the issue of overvoltage protection. If the direct connect supply should exceed 25V, the potential for circuit failure is huge. Circuits connected here should have polarity protection and overvoltage protection(crowbar) so as not to reduce the reliability of the turntable.

Our goal was to remove all vestiges of AC currents from the 1200 and to pre regulate the incomming DC for added stability. The PS-1200 does that and more. The SX-1200 strobe disabler will remove that pesky strobe artifact. As always, feel free to contact me if you need more info.

I appreciate all of your support throughout 2008 and look forward to 2009."

[jonners]

Update...Kevin (KAB) commented on the PSU "issue" on his website:

  Sound HiFi have put their reply to this on their "Technics" page.

  I think that KAB and Sound HiFi are asking quite a lot of money for what is basically a simple, stabilised DC supply. I made my own DC supply, but it should be possible to use one such as this: http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2168  - using it at 21V and connecting it to bypass the deck's internal regulator. I described mine on the Art of Sound Forum. If you're not into diy, maybe find someone willing and competent who is?

  John

[Toka]

Hmm...the plot thickens! 

More than one way to do things, I'm sure.

[Panelman]

Toka,

I confirmed with Steve  at Herbie's that the mat on the Sound HiFi webpage is the Herbie's Way Excellent mat for the SL1200.  Sound HiFi buys the mat from Herbies.  I recently bought the mat for my SL1200 and it is a great improvement over the stock mat.

Sean

[Toka]

Toka,

I confirmed with Steve  at Herbie's that the mat on the Sound HiFi webpage is the Herbie's Way Excellent mat for the SL1200.  Sound HiFi buys the mat from Herbies.  I recently bought the mat for my SL1200 and it is a great improvement over the stock mat.

Cool, thanks for the info. Did he mention anything about it being a special design just for them or is it something available from Herbie's directly? Either way I agree on the mat...its a winner!

[TheChairGuy]

Toka,

I think the only thing special about the design is that it' specially sized for the Technics. Otherwise it's a stock Herbie's (in material)

BEWARE:  The Technics platter has an outside lip that will make any other mat tilt up at the edges, this means your records will only be in full contact at the very edge, and not with the main part of the record.  Our mat is slightly smaller in diameter to fit inside this lip and give your records constant contact.  This small but absolutely necessary feature demonstrates our fanatical attention to detail.

It may only be available from Sound HiFi in this sized configuration, however

John

[Panelman]

Cool, thanks for the info. Did he mention anything about it being a special design just for them or is it something available from Herbie's directly? Either way I agree on the mat...its a winner!

Toka,
Per Steve its the same mat, Sound HiFi gets it from Herbie's.  Looking at the mat now on my Technics there is about a 1-2 millimeter gap between the outer edge of the mat and the inner edge of the silver colored ring of the platter. As I look at it the record lays flat and it's only a small part of the lead in groove that is not supported by the mat. I can't see what change Sound HiFi would need to make to the mat.

Sean

[TheChairGuy]

I'm not now looking at Herbie's site, but I had noticed that they offer 3 sizes of platter mats now...perhaps the smallest, which was like 11", is correct for the SL-1200 decks (?)

John